Yamaha 350 Warrior Electric Conversion

[DGarrity]

I've started converting my 1998 Yamaha 350 Warrior to electric. Here's what I've got so far:
QS 138 90H V3 motor
Fardriver 96680 Controller
24s1p Li-ion battery (Composed of 2 12s 2.1kwh JEEP PHEV modules)


This is the first conversion I've ever done. The challenge and learning is the fun part for me. I'm reaching out on this thread because despite doing a lot of research some topics either give conflicting information or the subjects aren't touched on very well.

My goal is to just go trail riding like I used to with the quad, but quieter and with instant torque.

I have several questions and any advice/input would be appreciated.
First involves selecting the BMS:
Any specific brands to avoid?
I've seen Daly, JK, JBD, and ANT as common brands. I was leaning towards ANT as others had mentioned using them on this forum with success.
Does 200Amp continuous seem like enough?
I ask because many people suggest the QS138 can easily outperform is 4kW rating, the battery modules claim 400A, controller 330A, and I don't want the BMS to be the weak point, but it seems they will peak higher and I have no desire to really stress any particular component.

Do you recommend a contactor/breaker/both?
I understand that they're not the same thing. The Fardriver wiring diagram is helpful, but labels "kill switch" right out of the positive side of the battery and has a grainy picture of what looks like a circuit breaker. No contactor is shown in the diagram, but have read that it is an important piece of equipment.

Anything dangerous about connecting the ignition key switch to the + side of the battery?
That is how it is shown wired, just seems odd to send around 100v right up to the key on thin wires. My plan is just to use the regular key switch.

Does QS10 connector for connecting battery leads to controller sound appropriate?
I've seen pictures of people using smaller QS8 connectors and the Amorge packs come with those, but current specs seem low on any connector with people in forums/Facebook often bragging about their builds drawing hundreds of amps.

Any better suggestions for housing functions like 3 speeds, lights, Drive/reverse, regen?
I was thinking of just reusing the existing left hand controls for lights to do lights, the start button for regen(although also thought of putting the clutch handle back on for regen) and then just cutting some toggle switches for high/low speed and drive reverse. Might be nice to package them all in one unit, but I haven't seen anything so far.

Sorry to ask so much, but I've never done a conversion before and am trying to learn.

 

[ZeroEm]

Your BMS should match your battery. Don't try to match it to your controller or anything else. It is to protect your batter not control your amps. Settings in your controller or other device will limit amp draw.

Like the idea of starter button for regen. Variable thru throttle. You can setup a reed switch on your break lever to activate regen also. Give it some thought. Have mine on a button.

 

[amberwolf]

I've started converting my 1998 Yamaha 350 Warrior to electric. Here's what I've got so far:
QS 138 90H V3 motor
Fardriver 96680 Controller
24s1p Li-ion battery (Composed of 2 12s 2.1kwh JEEP PHEV modules)
<snip>
Does 200Amp continuous seem like enough?
I ask because many people suggest the QS138 can easily outperform is 4kW rating, the battery modules claim 400A, controller 330A, and I don't want the BMS to be the weak point, but it seems they will peak higher and I have no desire to really stress any particular component

See below; you'll need to know how mcuh power it will actually take to do what you want before you can know what size BMS, controller, motor, cells, to get.

If you already have parts you're going to use (whether or not they'll do what you want ) then you need a BMS that can handle *at least* as much as the current the controller will ever draw, worst case, continuously, *but* the BMS must be set or designed to turn off the output to protect the cells against overcurrent events.

If you are using new cells, then you can use the spec-sheet rating for them. If they are used cells, then what you can expect from them depends on why they were removed from their original use. If it was age, capacity, etc., then it's safer to assume you can only get at most say 80% of the ratings, including current, to be sure you aren't stressing the cells. If you're not sure why they were removed from service, you might want to assume they're even less capable, but they might be perfectly capable of spec-sheet ratings. You can test them per spec-sheet conditions to see if they still match those ratings.


Anyway--if the modules *can* support 400A continuous (not just peak or burst), then you can use a BMS capable of that.

If the cells can only actually support say, 200A, but the controller is going to need more than that, you'll need to parallel a second set of modules.


If you use a BMS that is only say, 200A, then you must program the controller so that it will never draw that much, even under worst case load of a stall going uphill, etc. Otherwise it's going to trip the BMS and shut the whole system off, cutting power to everything. (if you're going uphill you'll then roll backwards downhill, with risk of a crash, etc).

My goal is to just go trail riding like I used to with the quad, but quieter and with instant torque.

How much power does it take to do waht you used to do?

You can use various online calculators to determine power required for your specific worst-case riding conditions, total weight, acceleration required on worst-case slopes at fastest speeds you need at highest weight, etc.

Then you would use parts capable of supplying all of that, for as long as you need to do those things. Any parts you already have that can't do that would need to be replaced.

Do you recommend a contactor/breaker/both?

Depends. I'd recommend a fuse at the actual positive terminal of the cell block, rated for a higher voltage than your system will ever see under any conditions. Then no matter what, if there is a wiring fault, etc., that shorts across the main battery +/-, externally or internally, it will blow that fuse and prevent a battery or wiring fire. The fuse should be sized that even the worst-case actual-usage current will never exceed it's rating, but that a current higher than the cells or wiring can safely handle will blow it before heat from the short can start a fire. Fuses are rated on a time vs current curve, each model has it's own manufacturer chart so you can make sure it will do what you want. If a fuse you want to use does not have this, don't use that brand, use one that does.

You can also use a breaker; it will also need to rated as the fuse is; they also have manufacturer charts that show how they work under different conditions. If possible the breaker should also be right at the positive terminal of the cell block, before exiting the battery, for the same reason the fuse is. If not, as close to that point outside the battery.

It must be a DC-capable breaker to be guaranteed to break the connection. An AC-only breaker like a housewiring breaker will *probably* break the connection, but it's only designed to do it with the AC that crosses 0V many times per second. DC doesn't do that and always has the full voltage across an open circuit, so ti can arc and weld the contacts together, or it can keep arcing over a short open gap and cause a plasma fire.



The farther a protection is from the cell block terminal, the more unprotected wiring exists that a short could cause a fire with.


I use both a fuse (at the cell block +) and a breaker (about a foot down the main + outside the battery). Even when I've blown a controller up from a motor short, etc., I haven't blown the fuse or popped the breaker, but I have not yet had a wiring fault / short or other hihg-current-failure event.

Anything dangerous about connecting the ignition key switch to the + side of the battery?
That is how it is shown wired, just seems odd to send around 100v right up to the key on thin wires. My plan is just to use the regular key switch.

Personally I'd use a low voltage at your keyswitch to control a relay that does the actual "ignition" wire connection to battery voltage. Higher voltages even at low currents have higher sparks across contacts and degrade them faster. Your existing wiring and switches are probably all designed around a "12v" system that is likely 13.6-14.4v max. Probably rated higher than that, but I don't know by how much--probably not for 10 times as much.

On an early version of SB Cruiser, I used a Briggs & Stratton keyswitch (because I already had it and it was "weatherproof") for my "ignition" (KSI) and even at less than 60v absolute max it still failed some months in and I had to wire around it during a ride; it was only meant to switch the "12v" ignition system on a mower on and off.

To use a low voltage to control these things, you can either have a main battery disconnect that must be turned on to use the system, that then connects battery to a 12v DC-DC that feeds all your lights, accessories, etc, or you can have a separate 12v battery that feeds all this stuff.

I actually use both on the SB Cruiser--the disconnect feeds the DC-DC, which controls automotive relays that switch on the main 12v battery to allow pwoer to lights, etc once those are switched on with separate toggles (I like manual switches with obvious on/off positions and clunky feel to be sure they are in the state they should be without looking at them).

Because I have the main disconnect I no longer use an ignition key, but if I did use one I'd have the key in teh 12v circuit, sending 12v to swtich a contactor for the main traction battery to controller connection.

Does QS10 connector for connecting battery leads to controller sound appropriate?
I've seen pictures of people using smaller QS8 connectors and the Amorge packs come with those, but current specs seem low on any connector with people in forums/Facebook often bragging about their builds drawing hundreds of amps.

Personally I like Andersons. Genuine ones will survive decades of use and perhaps even abuse, with many connect/disconnect cycles. They are large compared to many other connectors for the current rating, but they also don't heat up and they don't get disconnected, when correctly installed and mated. They also have sacrificial tips that can take sparking connections if necessary, wtihout any compromise of the actual conducting contact area.

I'd recommend using bolt-on ring terminals for all connections that don't need to be disconnected for other than nonroutine servicing, such as motor phase wires, etc. If the battery does not need to be removed, and you have a disconnect switch or breaker, then you don't need a connector for it either and can use ring terminals there as well.

Be sure to use a good ratcheting crimper; a hydraulic one will be better, for both ring terminals and anderson contacts.

Soldering can be used if done correctly and thoroughly, but it will wick solder up the cable and can make the connection stiff and that can cause fatigue cracking later, which can cause the connection to fail over time.

Any better suggestions for housing functions like 3 speeds, lights, Drive/reverse, regen?
I was thinking of just reusing the existing left hand controls for lights to do lights, the start button for regen(although also thought of putting the clutch handle back on for regen) and then just cutting some toggle switches for high/low speed and drive reverse. Might be nice to package them all in one unit, but I haven't seen anything so far.

I generally use scooter/motorcycle/atv controls on my e-trike (SB Cruiser) and my old ebike (CrazyBike2). The best ones I used were metal ones from an old 1980s honda scooter. The worst ones were generic plastic stuff off Amazon or Aliexpress. If you can get OEM stuff off a tough old brand system, that hasnt' been abused already, I'd go with that. But otherwise, whatever you can find that fits your necessary amount and type of controls.

Keep in mind that each set of handlebar controls is wired diferently, and may have several controls with common ground or common positive, and you must be sure that they have the wiring you need. If not, you'll have to open them up and rewire them the way you want them.

I recommend only using these controls for 12v or less signals; tehy're not generally designed for higher voltages than that and I wouldn't guarantee they'll repeatedly disconnect or connnect higher voltages.

 

[bananu7]

Does 200Amp continuous seem like enough?

Nah. Get one of the big ones, 400A+. They're reliable if you don't stress them too much. You will set it up for your particular battery current anyway, and the price difference is negligible. I had the 420A one in my first pack and looking at prices went with it again now.