Magic pie 3

[neptronix]

That might be an infineon, but it is not programmable.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17683

 

[o00scorpion00o]

GM are not interested in making high speed bicycle motors, meaning they won't make controllers that take more than 60 volts max. They were planning on making the controller take 90 volts but they imagined the danger and didn't want anyone getting hurt from their kits, what people do after that then GM can't be held responsible, they just want people to be safe!

Having said that, the other night I modded my 12 fet Infineon from 3kw to 4.8kw, holy crap its scary as he'll, but such a buzz, 30 mph max on 60 volts, need 80 or more. With halls you get more mph, but I burned mine!

I saw a peak of 107 amps on the cycle analyst that's about 8 hp or a littl more!

I just have to play with the software a little because I still get a weird vibration and I'm not really sure if it's because I'm running sensor less! But nothing gets hot the motor stays cool, but serious hill climbs would need monitoring, the trick is to keep the motor spinning fast and fast means voltage, 80 or more volts would be ideal and back off the amps, or do what Neptronix did, get a 20 inch wheel, that really reduces the load on the motor, only thing is he will need a lot of voltage with the smaller wheel, but he shouldn't burn it up pikes peak!

So fear not this pie can take the power, just don't go launching it up any 16% mountains unless the covers are drilled, in a 26 inch wheel. And something I would not do under 60 volts minimum because the pie is already a slow wind and it just can't spin fast enough on 48 volts or less and all the power will turn to heat, so you will need to back off the amps if planning any long 12-16% mountains!

When GM say the pie is 30 % more powerful, that's just because the controller can take more power with pie III, that's the only difference between pie II.

 

[neptronix]

Any golden motor dealer would be idiotic to sell a motor + controller combination capable of what this motor can put out.
9 out of 10 people i've tried to get to ride my bike have backed away from the bike as their self-preservation instinct kicked in :lol: .. and that's on the 50% speed setting where the wheelies are more controllable since the throttle is far less jumpy.

 

[Enpro]

Well i just ordered a 72v 12 fet crystalyte controller anyway .
Not quite sure how to combine it with the magic pie thumb throttle but it shouldn't be to hard to figure that out.
If my battery's are capable i should be getting about 2500watt into the mp3 with the new controller and be happy to post the real life results when i got them

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

Not sure how these MP3 motors are getting out. But chances are they are from the first 100 they made as test motors late last fall. Needless to say things did not go as well as planned because they are still unreleased. There still are no MP3 motors released from the factory for resale so if you have one it most likley is from this first 100 unit pre-production run. They have sent some of the surviving test motors from that run around as test models to certain people. They were not to be released yet as they were not very reliable and they still dont have the final wiring harness or controller. If you do get one of these pre-release motors never try plugging in any new throttles, brake levers or control buttons that come out after the release. The wiring inside the harness was changed and if you plug in any of the new controls into the harness they will cause a short and either blow the controls, the controller or fry the harness.

Of course if you Intend to scrap all that and just use the motor you may be ok with that. But there were also other issues in the motor itself that have been changed. I now have my second set of MP3's motors for testing and they say these will be the final released product. They are awesome, but why do I have them for weeks now and still no MP3's for sale to the public? I suspect there are still issues being worked out.

Do not judge the MP3 by anything you see before the release.

Gary

 

[zombiess]

I let my friend who had zero ebike experience ride my 9C 2806 (20" wheel) on it's low power setting 40% throttle 26mph max speed up and down the street once. He liked it. Put him up to power level 2 (70%) and he did a 41mph pass so I told him try level 3 105% and he loved it. This was on a 125V 45A setup (I turned down the amps tad for his first ride which are usually 60-70A). He had no problems and instantly wanted one to go to work on. It's all about how the bike is setup. Prior to my extended swing arm, even I was scared to ride the thing at high power (and looped it twice), geometry was sooo wrong. Eight extra inches of swing arm tamed it, but it can still power wheelie depending on current settings and weight shift up to 20mph.

A magic pie with an decent external controller in a short wheel base 16-20" wheel would be a wheelie monster.

 

[neptronix]

I let my friend who had zero ebike experience ride my 9C 2806 (20" wheel) on it's low power setting 40% throttle 26mph max speed up and down the street once. He liked it. Put him up to power level 2 (70%) and he did a 41mph pass so I told him try level 3 105% and he loved it. This was on a 125V 45A setup (I turned down the amps tad for his first ride which are usually 60-70A). He had no problems and instantly wanted one to go to work on. It's all about how the bike is setup. Prior to my extended swing arm, even I was scared to ride the thing at high power (and looped it twice), geometry was sooo wrong. Eight extra inches of swing arm tamed it, but it can still power wheelie depending on current settings and weight shift up to 20mph.

A magic pie with an decent external controller in a short wheel base 16-20" wheel would be a wheelie monster.

Thanks for the feedback, i've looked at every bicycle configuration that's compatible with a 20in. wheel, and decided that extended BMX is indeed the way to go. This just cements things in my mind..

 

[Enpro]

Not sure how these MP3 motors are getting out. But chances are they are from the first 100 they made as test motors late last fall. Needless to say things did not go as well as planned because they are still unreleased. There still are no MP3 motors released from the factory for resale so if you have one it most likley is from this first 100 unit pre-production run. They have sent some of the surviving test motors from that run around as test models to certain people. They were not to be released yet as they were not very reliable and they still dont have the final wiring harness or controller. If you do get one of these pre-release motors never try plugging in any new throttles, brake levers or control buttons that come out after the release. The wiring inside the harness was changed and if you plug in any of the new controls into the harness they will cause a short and either blow the controls, the controller or fry the harness.

Of course if you Intend to scrap all that and just use the motor you may be ok with that. But there were also other issues in the motor itself that have been changed. I now have my second set of MP3's motors for testing and they say these will be the final released product. They are awesome, but why do I have them for weeks now and still no MP3's for sale to the public? I suspect there are still issues being worked out.

Do not judge the MP3 by anything you see before the release.

Gary

Needless to say i wont have to worry about the controller or cabling anymore because i already got rid of them leaving me with the motor .
I'm not that happy to hear this inst the final product because "Devi motion" sold it to me as a "final product" or at least they didn't told me anything about this being a test version or something....
Of course they didn't recommended the 72v but they also didn't clearly told me that it could not handle it but again i cant blame them for going over the max specs...



The resistor is totally vaporized when i tried it on 72v


I painted it black myself if someone wonders about the color.




Too bad i blew it up before i got the chance to test it with the original controller but i going to get my new controller next monday and the bike should be ready too ride by then.
Going to post some more pics in my build threat

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

I am not here to bash Devi Motion. I am sure they are selling you the best product they have and no knowledge of any wrong doing. It looks to me that i may have been misslead. The post I made about "these motors are getting out somehow" was based on availablity information I have been given by Golden Motor over the last few weeks. Now that I am rethinking it maybe they are telling me false information. If so it would not surprise me.

I wish you the best and apologize if I am mistaken.

Gary

 

[minuteman2k]

Hi

Im new to this forum but have been reading carefully but not new to E bikes

Does anyone realise that the Magic Pie is used on the El moto Ebike ???

http://www.elmoto.com/produkt/

Even the cruise control and lights switch on the handle bars is the same as golden motors !!

The point is they are running the Pie at 2200 WATTS !!!! I believe

 

[MadRhino]

The point is they are running the Pie at 2200 WATTS !!!! I believe

Well, welcome on the forum.
You have to read a bit more. 2000w is considered low power here, especially for a motorcycle. Many of us are playing with 10+ Kw on bicycles.

 

[Enpro]

I am not here to bash Devi Motion. I am sure they are selling you the best product they have and no knowledge of any wrong doing. It looks to me that i may have been misslead. The post I made about "these motors are getting out somehow" was based on availablity information I have been given by Golden Motor over the last few weeks. Now that I am rethinking it maybe they are telling me false information. If so it would not surprise me.

I wish you the best and apologize if I am mistaken.

Gary

Well as you can see its a real MP3 and devi motion wanted to sell me a show model battery at first so i think they would have told me if the mp3 was a show model as well.
After all devi motion is one of the headquarters of golden motors so i guess they got early access?

Anyway half of my mp3 is already gone so it doesn't really matter too me anymore :wink:

 

[minuteman2k]

Cheers Madrhino, thanks for the welcome

The knowledge on this forum is excellent and the respect for each other also

Made myself sound like a real noob didnt I,

most people consider 1500 watts from an magic pie to be alot just thought i would show its being used else where el moto bike Germany.

High power is not hard to achieve keeping it under control is as i have found

Could someone tell me the max they have run a MP3 up to ?

 

[MadRhino]

Could someone tell me the max they have run a MP3 up to ?

The Magic Pie 3 is new, I believe the one in this thread is the first to hit the forum. Yet, the older MP have seen a lot of mods and I think its saturation must be around 10kw. We have motors that saturate higher, but the large diameter of the pie makes it interesting for performance, and even better if they make it with integrated cooling.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I'm currently dumping 5kw into my Pie II. That's just over 80 amps on 60 volts nominal LiPo.

Apart from the obvious differences, the Pie II motor is Exactly the same as Pie III.

Incredible fun is the only way to describe it, unfortunately the fun ends really fast on only 60 volts, 30 mph comes fairly fast. As I'm using sensorless I miss out on the 120% speed setting to give me an extra 5 mph.

I modded my Lyen 12 fet infineon. If I was pulling that power continuously up a hill I would be worried about phase wires heating from the controller and battery wires and the controller itself, but so far it's not getting hot, and the motor only warm. The pie pulls a lot of power on acceleration and it's more than capable of dissipating 2kw continuously while cruising at 35 mph.

The little 30 amp andersons take a hell of a lot of peak power. I would change them to the 75 amp, and change the phase wires but I'm not going to bother changing things. I'm using the pie while I wait for upgrades to my mac.

A geared water cooled pie sized motor would be serious fun!!!

 

[minuteman2k]

I let my friend who had zero ebike experience ride my 9C 2806 (20" wheel) on it's low power setting 40% throttle 26mph max speed up and down the street once. He liked it. Put him up to power level 2 (70%) and he did a 41mph pass so I told him try level 3 105% and he loved it. This was on a 125V 45A setup (I turned down the amps tad for his first ride which are usually 60-70A). He had no problems and instantly wanted one to go to work on. It's all about how the bike is setup. Prior to my extended swing arm, even I was scared to ride the thing at high power (and looped it twice), geometry was sooo wrong. Eight extra inches of swing arm tamed it, but it can still power wheelie depending on current settings and weight shift up to 20mph.

A magic pie with an decent external controller in a short wheel base 16-20" wheel would be a wheelie monster.

Please define a decent Controller ??

 

[zombiess]

I let my friend who had zero ebike experience ride my 9C 2806 (20" wheel) on it's low power setting 40% throttle 26mph max speed up and down the street once. He liked it. Put him up to power level 2 (70%) and he did a 41mph pass so I told him try level 3 105% and he loved it. This was on a 125V 45A setup (I turned down the amps tad for his first ride which are usually 60-70A). He had no problems and instantly wanted one to go to work on. It's all about how the bike is setup. Prior to my extended swing arm, even I was scared to ride the thing at high power (and looped it twice), geometry was sooo wrong. Eight extra inches of swing arm tamed it, but it can still power wheelie depending on current settings and weight shift up to 20mph.

A magic pie with an decent external controller in a short wheel base 16-20" wheel would be a wheelie monster.

Please define a decent Controller ??

Something that will handle at 100V 40A minimum, like a Lyen 12 FET 4110. Run it at 20S for 84V fully charged and have reliable fun or push it to 100V and take chances you might hurt the controller because you are at it's max FET volt ratings. I now prefer to run 150V controller at 125V so I have some safety margin. I always recommend leaving a safety margin on electronics parts and not running them at their max ratings. Not always what I do myself, but it's what I tell others if they want it to live.

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

Well as you can see its a real MP3 and devi motion wanted to sell me a show model battery at first so i think they would have told me if the mp3 was a show model as well.
After all devi motion is one of the headquarters of golden motors so i guess they got early access?

Anyway half of my mp3 is already gone so it doesn't really matter too me anymore :wink:

If you look at the dealer page on Goldenmotor.com you will see I am also listed as a headquarters. What this actually means I still wonder. But I still have no MP3 and no word from China they are ready. Maybe they choose to just leave me in the dark as I am more vocal about things and do my best to be honest. There is something odd going on for sure though. If you look at the devi motion add for the mp3 the picture is very small and impossible to make out any of the information. They list it as 250-1500w. Here it is full size so it can be seen more clearly.

I added two circles to the picture. The red one you can clearly see the controller is rated at 24/36/48 volts and in the blue circle you can see the motor is rated at 24-60 volts. Now with people already inspecting the fets on the controller are 63v it makes sence the controller is at max a 48 volt controller. With 48v batteries fully charged some read as high as 58 volts. The blue circle shows the motor is rated at 24 to 60 volts. This is completly believable as I have seen people run the MP2 as high as 120 volts.

If Devi Motion continues to market this kit as a 60v 1500w kit they will certainly be replacing alot of controllers. In my opinion it is not a simple mistake of "I didn't notice that". We have all had these pictures for many months and a 30 second look at it tells the story. It is odd that the picture can not be clearly read on thier site as any other picture on their site is very easy to see.

Someone also mentioned this was the first MP3 to hit the forum. I did some extensive testing of the MP3 back in October 2011 with my first two MP3's. I now am riding my second set of MP3's I received between Christmas and New Years. Im my mind these are still pre-release motors or I am completely in the dark. I posted alot of info and videos in this thread starting on the second page.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=32334

Also in the very first post on this thread you can see a link to someone else selling MP3. They are advertising it as a 250-1500 watt MP2 but you can clearly see the picture is an MP3. I guess there will be alot of blown MP3 controllers in the near future. I hope they get the 60 volt cutoff working properly before they send me mine.

Gary

 

[neptronix]

While you're here, Gary.. do you think Golden motor will keep producing the external controller magic pie II's?

I am loving mine. Poor man's Crystalyte, definitely an under-appreciated gem

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

While you're here, Gary.. do you think Golden motor will keep producing the external controller magic pie II's?

I am loving mine. Poor man's Crystalyte, definitely an under-appreciated gem

Yes for sure. It is a very reliable powerfull motor. With the stock external controller it is perfect for everyday use for the average consumer. If the controller blows they just unplug it and plug in a new one. Its a cheap and easy fix. With power junkys like we have here at ES you can use you own controller and it is a performance machine! You will not hear of anyone disapointed with the MP2 External. They actually plan on still making the MP2 internal motors as well. I don't stock them any more because the controllers that came with them at first were a dissapointment to say the least. I have however been been sending out the latest MP2 internal controller to customers that have a failure and also selling them to people for replacements that didn't buy from me. I still have not heard of one of those failing. So they did improve them. They are still making MP2 internal kits with these newer controllers and seem to be working fine but I'm out of that game. I think I had a party when I sold the last Internal MP2 kit There are no plans for MP3 external yet. But I am sure it will come. To make the current MP3 Internal into an External all you need is a nice cable that hooks up inside the controller housing. Then send it out the hole in the controller cover plate that the current internal controller is stuck to. I picture alot of ES members popping the controller off that plate and tossing it into the garbage.

Anyway I'm getting side tracked. The MP2 External is certainly still in production with no plans to stop making it as it is very popular.

Gary

 

[cell_man]

Hi

Im new to this forum but have been reading carefully but not new to E bikes

Does anyone realise that the Magic Pie is used on the El moto Ebike ???

http://www.elmoto.com/produkt/

Even the cruise control and lights switch on the handle bars is the same as golden motors !!

The point is they are running the Pie at 2200 WATTS !!!! I believe

I'm pretty sure it's not a GM on the Elmoto. I saw the motor and a pic of the emlmoto on another motor manufacturers stand.

 

[zombiess]

Hi

Im new to this forum but have been reading carefully but not new to E bikes

Does anyone realise that the Magic Pie is used on the El moto Ebike ???

http://www.elmoto.com/produkt/

Even the cruise control and lights switch on the handle bars is the same as golden motors !!

The point is they are running the Pie at 2200 WATTS !!!! I believe

I'm pretty sure it's not a GM on the Elmoto. I saw the motor and a pic of the emlmoto on another motor manufacturers stand.

That motor looks a lot like the 9C ones Justin at ebikes.ca imported and was a larger diameter 2806, forget what they called it, a 1606 I think.

 

[minuteman2k]

Hi

Im new to this forum but have been reading carefully but not new to E bikes

Does anyone realise that the Magic Pie is used on the El moto Ebike ???

http://www.elmoto.com/produkt/

Even the cruise control and lights switch on the handle bars is the same as golden motors !!

The point is they are running the Pie at 2200 WATTS !!!! I believe

I'm pretty sure it's not a GM on the Elmoto. I saw the motor and a pic of the emlmoto on another motor manufacturers stand.

That motor looks a lot like the 9C ones Justin at ebikes.ca imported and was a larger diameter 2806, forget what they called it, a 1606 I think.

Zombiess

Your right its a 9C 1606 painted black

Type in 9c Hub motor into google and see the images it show the GM Range ???

Way too similar to a MP sorry for changing the subject !

Tell me to shut up lol

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

Magic Pie III Arrives in Canada February 6th! Yes that's right, Monday!

With rail time and customs we should be shipping by Valantines Day!

Allthough this order is quite large we also had many pre-orders and a few sizes are out of stock all ready before we even receive it.

If you want your slice of the pie order without delay. Don't miss out!

Gary
www.goldenmotor.ca

 

[MadRhino]

Are they available in external controller version ?

Do you have a tech drawing with all dimensions ?

I plan to build with one next.