Qulbix Raptor ebike + frame kit

[Animalector]

One-size bikes are like one-size pants.

I do not think motorcycles come in different sizes.

Like Edward I don't think this matters at all. the reality is that people will get on and pedal / or not pedal any size bike. BMX right through to large MTB. Cracker job of the Torque bike design and well done. I think it is a step in the right direction for the DIY Ebike community

Andy

 

[sacko]

Group buy?

 

[Chalo]

One-size bikes are like one-size pants.

I do not think motorcycles come in different sizes.

Like Edward I don't think this matters at all. the reality is that people will get on and pedal / or not pedal any size bike.

If the fit is bad, they won't pedal, and if the fit is very bad, they won't ride it after the novelty wears off. That's the best evidence that one-size department store bicycle-shaped objects are not for riding, but only for selling. Those things get ridden uncomfortably for a few miles, then plopped into a shed for decades until they get bought by a bargain hunter who repeats the cycle (so to speak). BSOs sell anyway because they are very cheap-- and this e-bike won't be cheap.

This particular bike has the seat placed way too close to the bars, and too far forward over the pedals. That means it will fit everyone poorly, even those for whom it is the "right" size. Those for whom it is the wrong size will be uncomfortable and ungainly from day one, and the distraction of its cool-new-gadget status won't last long.

The thing about motorcycles is that they do come in a whole bunch of sizes, because there are so many to choose from. My last bike was a Suzuki GSX1100G, one of the biggest motorcycles available. I still had to use my machining skills to make dropped footpegs and move the handlebars up and forwards, and I had a taller seat custom made for it.

Riding a bike with pedals on it when you don't pedal is stupid and dishonest. That's exactly the sort of nonsense that will eventually get e-bikes kicked out of the bicycle legal category, the way that pocket bikes were kicked out of the sub-50cc moped/scooter category for being stupid.

 

[slipperystevens]

I,m in on a group buy.

 

[EdwardNY]

One-size bikes are like one-size pants.

I do not think motorcycles come in different sizes.

Like Edward I don't think this matters at all. the reality is that people will get on and pedal / or not pedal any size bike.

If the fit is bad, they won't pedal, and if the fit is very bad, they won't ride it after the novelty wears off. That's the best evidence that one-size department store bicycle-shaped objects are not for riding, but only for selling. Those things get ridden uncomfortably for a few miles, then plopped into a shed for decades until they get bought by a bargain hunter who repeats the cycle (so to speak). BSOs sell anyway because they are very cheap-- and this e-bike won't be cheap.

This particular bike has the seat placed way too close to the bars, and too far forward over the pedals. That means it will fit everyone poorly, even those for whom it is the "right" size. Those for whom it is the wrong size will be uncomfortable and ungainly from day one, and the distraction of its cool-new-gadget status won't last long.

The thing about motorcycles is that they do come in a whole bunch of sizes, because there are so many to choose from. My last bike was a Suzuki GSX1100G, one of the biggest motorcycles available. I still had to use my machining skills to make dropped footpegs and move the handlebars up and forwards, and I had a taller seat custom made for it.

Riding a bike with pedals on it when you don't pedal is stupid and dishonest. That's exactly the sort of nonsense that will eventually get e-bikes kicked out of the bicycle legal category, the way that pocket bikes were kicked out of the sub-50cc moped/scooter category for being stupid.

I am not sure where the seat and pedals should be. However, the bike was built with alot of attention to detail. I find it hard to believe that the seating position was not well researched. I think for what these bikes are intended for it may have the seat position for a reason.

But it should be an easy fix as the seat bracket looks to be screwed into the frame with 4 screws. So I am sure the seat bracket, the red piece scrwed into the frame can be made in any size we want to move the seat exactly where you want it. Compared to other bikes which this is welded into the frame, it looks like this will offer us options.

Am I right here?

 

[spinningmagnets]

One-size bikes are like one-size pants

Yes it's true, but they have to sell something at first...and if they make a profit, perhaps they will expand their line-up? I think competition and a choice of products from several companies is a good thing.

 

[EdwardNY]

I,m in on a group buy.

Yeah we should discuss some kind of group buy. Especially if we are the early adaptors of this frame. We will be the ones trying and testing it.

 

[Chalo]

But it should be an easy fix as the seat bracket looks to be screwed into the frame with 4 screws. So I am sure the seat bracket, the red piece scrwed into the frame can be made in any size we want to move the seat exactly where you want it. Compared to other bikes which this is welded into the frame, it looks like this will offer us options.

This is a good point, because as you say it offers a buyer some fit options-- even if the manufacturer never does provide them. It is much easier to fab a longer seat boom and bolt it on than to cut the frame and weld on a modified version.

Yes it's true, but they have to sell something at first...and if they make a profit, perhaps they will expand their line-up?

I hope so. I believe one of the things holding back turn-key e-bikes versus conversion kits is the difficulty of making one size of bike work for many sizes of people.

It makes manufacturing sense to have a single standardized power module and frame unit-- but being able to swap among different forks, seat subframes, and swingarms would allow the core module to fit riders like a bike that comes in many sizes. It would potentially allow the core module to function equally well with a variety of wheel sizes and suspension travel regimes.

To be more specific, imagine a bike set up like the Torque model shown here, but with S/M/L/XL seat subframes that have graduated rise and setback. And instead of one kind of swingarm, there could be short and long straight swingarms for 24-26" wheels, and a cranked swingarm that could be mounted to bend 2.5" downwards for 20" wheels, or 2.5" upwards for 29" wheels. The ends of the swingarm could be tapped on both top and bottom of both sides to provide a standardized mount for slotted dropouts, clamping dropouts, through-axle dropouts, disc caliper tabs, chain tensioners, etc. The core module could be furnished with both a bottom bracket shell and a set of footpeg mounts for standard BMX/freestyle pegs, for use in either e-bicycle or e-moto configuration.

Combine such a system with the great variety of forks, handlebars, and stems already offered by the bicycle industry, and the bike could be set up to fit most riders with just about any wheel size configuration.

 

[veloman]

I have to agree with Chalo on the seat position - it is definitely too far forward. It will make you sit really upright and on top of the pedals.

It looks good otherwise.

 

[QuestionMan]

I have to agree with Chalo on the seat position - it is definitely too far forward. It will make you sit really upright and on top of the pedals.

It looks good otherwise.

I wonder why it was designed like this. I tried to research seating position on a dirtbike and it seems that they use a more forward seating position on dirtbikes.

I am going to assume that, like with any heavy ebike, that pedaling is an afterthought and the focus is on a seating position best used for motor driving.

 

[deffx]

I'd like one with both saddle options to interchange, Even though the frames wide, it means your standard 155mm lipo will fit sideways, thats alot of lipo that will fit in this frame

Im keen on a group buy to, i wonder how much they would sell them for with 10-20? customers from here.

The seat doesnt look that wrong to me, comparing with my own specialized big hit, the nose of the saddle is kind of in line with the crank. Probably not optimal, but these kind of bikes are not really made to pedal efficiently on tarmac roads.The saddle gets in the way offroad when the seat is set for correct pedalling

I also think it should have bolt/clamping dropouts even though they look really wide and strong

[img][/img]

 

[Animalector]

I am going to assume that, like with any heavy ebike, that pedaling is an afterthought and the focus is on a seating position best used for motor driving.

I think it is clear that this was an after thought because the first frame had no pedals, foot pegs only. As suggested, if the seat post bracket is adjustable (or could be) I think there is no problems.

Even so, there are already manufacturers producing "pedal oriented" electric bikes this is obviously NOT one of these types of bikes. Chuck a heap of batteries in, a big controller and a killer motor and away you go in the bush. like it was (I think) intended. if you want a pedal bike, go buy one intended for that purpose.

I still like it.

Andy

 

[sacko]

I've mailed them regarding a Group Buy and a link to this thread.

 

[litespeed]

Compared to the very popular Stealth Bomber the seating position looks very close in relation to the bottom bracket but not to the headset. I'm interested in it also because I could easily make a new seat mount if needed. Group buy would be cool!

Tom

 

[dh-paule]

Will you sell the framekit only or a (custom) bike too?

 

[AaronBambach]

Great pics of the bikes, awesome option for frame only, looking forward to turnkey pricing as well.

 

[bilabonic]

Group buy?

I'm in, excellent idea.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Thats why I was asking about if they sold bare metal frames. I think the first thing I would do with one would be to cut that seat mount apart and extend/change the post angle to better fit as a pedal bike. If it was powder coated, it would be a pain in the @ss to strip, fix, then have recoated.

I need another ebike like a hole in the head right now, but a group buy sounds tempting.

 

[QuestionMan]

I am wondering if this will fit the cromotor 2 with disc brakes. Reason being is that the phasor had issues with fitting certain hubmotors.

Would also be nice if it had some kind of clamping dropouts, like someone else mentioned above.

would be nice if someone actually built one of these up to see how everything fit.

So far I like the 160mm wide body to fit lipos sideways, like deffx said.
I like the option to have a motorcycle seat.
I like the looks of the bike. Actually I have to admit that looks matter a lot. I like the high tech look that will go well with a futuristic battery powered bike. I was considering the phasor but it was too narrow and I never really liked the way it looked. It was also designed where you can not even fit 6s back side by side.

 

[LSBW]

I'm up for one frame kit with 150 mm dropouts, if there's a group buy.

 

[Paul_G]

Looks like they are selling bikes as well as kits but no price listed yet

Raptor Bikes
Four different standard Raptor model configurations are available. You can choose between "street" & "offroad" suspension setup and two seat options "moto" & "bicycle". Custom configurations are possible on demand.



RAPTOR STREET MOTO
is ideal for fast urban rides. Wide CrazyBob tyres perform best on tarmac and macadam. Motorcycle seat is designed for cornering and comfort, suspension is ideal for the asphalt and macadam surfaces. Hydraulic 203 mm disc brakes ensure that you always have enough stopping power.



RAPTOR OFFROAD MOTO
is working best on tough terrains, no place is out of it's reach. DH suspension with massive suspension stroke and can handle bumps, jumps an everything else what comes in your way. Motorcyle seat is designed for best control during cornering and pedalling.



RAPTOR STREET BICYCLE
is ideal for fast urban rides, bicycle seat height can be adjusted for best pedalling efficiency. Wide CrazyBob tyres perform best on tarmac and macadam. Suspension is ideal for the asphalt and macadam surfaces. Hydraulic 203 mm disc brakes ensure that you always have enough stopping power.



RAPTOR OFFROAD BICYCLE
is working best on tough terrains, no place is out of it's reach. DH suspension with massive suspension stroke and can handle bumps, jumps an everything else what comes in your way. Bicycle seat height can be adjusted for best pedalling efficiency.

 

[LSBW]

As per email I received from them this morning:

-Raptor Bicycle Frame Kit is 1024 eur

shipment cost for 1 frame kit to Canada is 70 eur (Regular post, Priority, delivery time 1-2 weeks).
(Prices are without 20% VAT due to shipment outside EU).

We require 60% deposit with the order, 40% prior to shipping. For 100% deposit we offer additional 5% discount.

Lead time from order till send out is around 2 weeks. Payment options: Paypal or Bank transfer. Let me know, I will send you the details.

P.S.: Spare parts are available, 150 mm dropout also, your battery in 2 separate packs would probably fit (I attach the opening drawing).

Kind regards,
Mitja Sorn

Battery pack he is talking about is cell_mans A123 split battery pack.

 

[Qulbix]

I think you hit a homerun with this new design. It looks much more refined and impressive than your torque. This may be my next frame. And after landing on my controller recently during a log crossing, I really like the idea of that controller protector.
Can you tell us what the maximum width is for the rear tire in the swingarm? I'm thinking I want to run 3" knobbies on my next build.
Do you sell just that protector?

Thanks, nice to hear that you like the design.
Sure, 26''x3'' can fit on to swing arm without any problem. On the photo below you can see there's a 10cm spacing (tire on photo is 2.35'').

Sorry, the controller shield is available only as a spare part, as it wouldn't fit any other frame anyway.

 

[Qulbix]

I am not sure where the seat and pedals should be. However, the bike was built with alot of attention to detail. I find it hard to believe that the seating position was not well researched. I think for what these bikes are intended for it may have the seat position for a reason.

But it should be an easy fix as the seat bracket looks to be screwed into the frame with 4 screws. So I am sure the seat bracket, the red piece scrwed into the frame can be made in any size we want to move the seat exactly where you want it. Compared to other bikes which this is welded into the frame, it looks like this will offer us options.

Am I right here?

Hi guys.

Raptor was to build to be a performance electric bike platform. To be honest - when you have 3, 4, 5kW (or more!) of electric power between your legs it is no longer a joke. It is more of a motorcycle than a bicycle. This is the only way to take the full advantage of the electric power and to still be safe on the other hand. So the frame needs a bit of a »motorcycle« spin.

Moto seat is great for those who want to ride the Raptor more like a dirt bike. You know ... when you enter a corner you have to slide your body to the front so you have more front wheel grip in the corner. When you pedal you slide your back end to the rear, so your legs are stretched and you have more leg power. It works just fine!
For those who want to have the perfect height for pedaling we recommend the bicycle seat frame. You adapt the seat height to your needs, simple as that.

Just for a comparison - here is the overlay of Raptor dimensions with those of Kona. Wheelbase is a bit larger (1240mm with DH suspension), to be more stable at higher speeds, but is still maneuverable like a FR bike. You can see the proportions compared to Raptor - they are in the same range (steering, bottom bracket and seat triangle).

So, yes, you're right EdwardNY. The seat frame on the Raptor is bolted to the frame. You can swap between moto and bicycle seat support frame at any time, you just need to remove 4 bolts.

 

[sk8norcal]

i recommend you post the 'effective top tube length'

how about an overlay over the stealth bomber?
http://www.earthtechling.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/stealth-bomber.jpg