Qulbix Raptor ebike + frame kit

[QuestionMan]

Will the dropouts hold the hubmotor in securely without any clamping or bolt to help secure it?

If you look at the phasor dropouts in the picture below you will see it has a screw, maybe some kind of secondary support? I know from experience that if the dropouts are held just by the the hub nuts it will eventually work itself loose. I personally would always be worried that the hub motor is going to shoot out of the dropouts, especially if using regen where it will rock itself loose.

Without a clamping mechanism the axle will have some kind of play in it which can fatigue the hubmotor axle and eventually break it.

What do you guys think?

Do you think we should contact Torque Bikes to see if they can modify the dropouts to some kind of clamping dropouts? I would really like user input into this because I am considering ordering one of these and want the hubmotor to be secure on the bike.

Here is the image of the phasor dropouts with some kind of screw to probably help secure the axle in the dropouts.

Here is an image of the raptor dropouts without any bolt or clamping mechanism.

 

[Rix]

Without a clamping mechanism the axle will have some kind of play in it which can fatigue the hubmotor axle and eventually break it.

Question Man, this is only an issue with regen braking. With Torque's current design, if the rear wheel was tightend on the left side first, what tiny bit of play between the axle and dropout would be taken up by the axle twisting to stop in the dropout in the same rotational direction that the torque on the axle is applied under power. I confirmed this with my Bomber before I made the pinch torque block. No if regen braking is used, the axle will want to twist in the other direction and eventually will come loose and could break like you say. Having said that, yah, I think torque bike could improve the axle dropout on the swing arm like you suggested with a "Pinch Clamp" type design. THen between that and the axle nuts, it would never ever be an issue with throttle and regen braking.

Rick

 

[oatnet]

Group buy?

I'm in, excellent idea.

+1 I'm in too. This is a great way to connect to a large customer base, free R&D from members posting implementations and solutions, and get your name across the core community .

-JD

 

[Hyena]

+1 on the pinching dropout, or atleast supply a laser cut torque arm to suit. It'd be easy to have a bolt over torque arm that integrates into the dropout shape.

And I made similar comments to above over the size etc over in the stealth thread.
I get that you guys adapted an e-moto setup to accommodate pedals but the frame is a bit wide for something that people may want to actively pedal on, even casually. It'd be good if you could offer a thinner pedal version as an option, say 130mm wide.

As for the other comments re: the bomber, here's an overlay showing it both aligned at the front hub and steerer and also at the cranks.
The 26" wheel obviously make it a bit longer but it also sits a bit higher with the minimum stand over height being less. Would I be correct in thinking you'd need to be atleast 5'7" to straddle this thing ? In the below photo aligned at the cranks you can see there's not much in it but with the tyres on the ground increased stand over height becomes apparent. It could be a bit of an optical illusion from the photo, it's always hard to compare such things from photos.
And I guess people can always run a 24" wheel set on these anyway

The seat position isnt too different from the bomber but that could be matched with a suitable set back seat post, or as above a revised seat support sub frame.

 

[Rix]

Definately a 30 inch inseam and 5'7", unless shod with 24" or 17 to 19" moto wheels. Then you get a little more stand over clearance. Looking at the pics, I would say the bikes would feel similiar in handeling under power no pedaling. Even though the seat is in about the same place respectively, the seat angle is much different on the Torque Bike than the Bomber. Pros and cons to this. Pros are no matter how high or low your raise the seat, the riders seated weight stays closer in the area. On the Bomber, the taller the seat post, the more rearward seated body weight goes. The pro for the Bomber is for riders who like their weight to transition rearward when the seat post is raised. As I said before, I think the bikes will feel similiar handling. I think... Hard to tell how a bike actually handles with out building and riding it so its all specualtion. Niether one of these bikes have nearly as extreme a seat post angle as most DH Bikes these days. That frame at 160mm wide on the inside, that is wide. The Phasor is around 95mm. Thats close to 3 inches difference. The Torque bikes get an A+ for neat looking in my book. Cant wait to see some of the future builds on this platform.

Rick

 

[EdwardNY]

Will the 160mm wide frame be a problem for any of you? I personally would rather have the 160mm width for fitting lipos sideways. If we shorten the frame to 130mm then we will not be able to fit 3 6s packs together because they are 50mm. We also would not be able to fit lipos sideways because they are 150mm long. So if we use 6s packs then it will be issues.

My current ebike has a battery bag that I stuffed out and is very wide, probably around 160mm as I have 3 lipos side by side in the bag. When I need to pedal which is hardly ever, it really is no problem. I hardly ever pedal my bike anyway because it is too heavy, I only really use the pedals for stability at low speeds.

 

[ls7corvete]

I fully support the Group buy Idea

 

[Rix]

Will the 160mm wide frame be a problem for any of you? I personally would rather have the 160mm width for fitting lipos sideways. If we shorten the frame to 130mm then we will not be able to fit 3 6s packs together because they are 50mm. We also would not be able to fit lipos sideways because they are 150mm long. So if we use 6s packs then it will be issues.
My current ebike has a battery bag that I stuffed out and is very wide, probably around 160mm as I have 3 lipos side by side in the bag. When I need to pedal which is hardly ever, it really is no problem. I hardly ever pedal my bike anyway because it is too heavy, I only really use the pedals for stability at low speeds.

Edward, you bring up a valid point. No body really wants to pedal a 100# plus Ebike, so what difference would it make to most if it was 160mm wide vs 130mm? Just as long as it can be pedaled, it can pass on bike paths at low speeds. I really see what you are saying. I wish someone would hurry up and build one already so we could get a real world evaluation of it.

Rick

 

[competitions]

Have torque bikes provided any specs or prices on any of their built up bikes or have they been released too early to have final specs and prices?

 

[Animalector]

There's so many kits out there I guess they would just build the bike to the customers spec. makes sense.

Andy

 

[deffx]

I think $1000 usd delivered, would be a nice price. In a large group buy situation. This may be hard for them. But i would imagine the interest and advertising generated would probably pay of two fold.

Maybe im dreaming or just trying to get a cheap frame, muhahahahahaha

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

I like to buy this frame but not for +/- 1200 euro

 

[sacko]

I like to buy this frame but not for +/- 1200 euro

Considering the other options available, that isn't expensive; it's actually the cheapest. The Phasor frames, which I don't think are as nice are £1260 in comparison to £1100 for the Raptor.

I would like to know though if the Raptor frame is Chromoly like the Phasor or just mild steel.

 

[Hyena]

If we shorten the frame to 130mm then we will not be able to fit 3 6s packs together because they are 50mm. We also would not be able to fit lipos sideways because they are 150mm long. So if we use 6s packs then it will be issues.

It really depends on what you want to use the bike for. As an e-moto sure, but for something you're going to pedal, even lightly, most wouldn't need 2+kwhr nor want to be lugging that weight around. I think making the frame accommodate packs 2 wide for and overall width of say 120mm would suffice for a more pedal oriented audience. Guessing off the frame dimensions you could still get an 18S3P pack in there (~70v 15ah) or possibly even a 24S3P

I wish someone would hurry up and build one already so we could get a real world evaluation of it.

To the guys at Torque, as has been the case with many vendors who show up here offering a new product the best way to get your name out there and be endorsed as a quality product (if that is the case!) is to give it to one of the members here for an independant and unbiased review and testing. It sounds like you have a number of guys lined up ready to buy these frames, they just need someone to give them a nod.
In the early stages of development, which you guy still are, you also stand to benefit from the feedback of someone who's likely got more experience with ebikes and may be able to offer suggestions or tweeks to the design before you start churning them out. This benefits both the ebike community as you're offering a product better suited to their needs and also you guys as you'll ultimately make more sales. It also gives the membership here ( which has to be the majority of your customer base currently ) some confidence in your company. I'm not at all implying that you guys aren't legit but we had one of your neighbors ( as per this thread ) show up recently as a new company with an attractive prospect only to make off with thousands of dollars from atleast one member here. So it's understandable there may be some initial hesitation until you and your products are proven.

Now, all that being said, I'd be happy to build up a bike with this frame for the purposes of an honest and independant review. I've got a stealth fighter + 2 other custom built ebike frames (and 2 more of my own design in the works) so am in a pretty good position to make comparisons. Infact I have a spare set of forks and shock exactly the same as I have on my fighter so could do an exact side by side comparison of these 2 bikes. Obviously the stealth frames have been a bit influence on your design. I also have an assortment of drivetrains to bolt up so could review the handling with a light weight geared bicycle motor for those more pedal orientated right up to a 10kw+ e-motorbike hub. My youtube channel also gets around 50,000 views/month so that'd be good advertising and promotional exposure. OK that's it for my job application

Seriously though if someone else is in a better position then well and good, it certainly doesn't have to be me who reviews it. But I really think for the benefit of the ES community and to help you drive sales this is what you'd be wise to do.
If you do want to send me one I wouldn't expect it totally for free (unless you want to ) but obviously it'd be a fair investment of time to build up the bike, documenting and reviewing, swapping out drivetrains etc so we'd have to come to some arrangement. Anyway the offer is there, PM me if you're interested

 

[Paul_G]

If we shorten the frame to 130mm then we will not be able to fit 3 6s packs together because they are 50mm. We also would not be able to fit lipos sideways because they are 150mm long. So if we use 6s packs then it will be issues.

It really depends on what you want to use the bike for. As an e-moto sure, but for something you're going to pedal, even lightly, most wouldn't need 2+kwhr nor want to be lugging that weight around. I think making the frame accommodate packs 2 wide for and overall width of say 120mm would suffice for a more pedal oriented audience. Guessing off the frame dimensions you could still get an 18S3P pack in there (~70v 15ah) or possibly even a 24S3P

I wish someone would hurry up and build one already so we could get a real world evaluation of it.

To the guys at Torque, as has been the case with many vendors who show up here offering a new product the best way to get your name out there and be endorsed as a quality product (if that is the case!) is to give it to one of the members here for an independant and unbiased review and testing. It sounds like you have a number of guys lined up ready to buy these frames, they just need someone to give them a nod.
In the early stages of development, which you guy still are, you also stand to benefit from the feedback of someone who's likely got more experience with ebikes and may be able to offer suggestions or tweeks to the design before you start churning them out. This benefits both the ebike community as you're offering a product better suited to their needs and also you guys as you'll ultimately make more sales. It also gives the membership here ( which has to be the majority of your customer base currently ) some confidence in your company. I'm not at all implying that you guys aren't legit but we had one of your neighbors ( as per this thread ) show up recently as a new company with an attractive prospect only to make off with thousands of dollars from atleast one member here. So it's understandable there may be some initial hesitation until you and your products are proven.

Now, all that being said, I'd be happy to build up a bike with this frame for the purposes of an honest and independant review. I've got a stealth fighter + 2 other custom built ebike frames (and 2 more of my own design in the works) so am in a pretty good position to make comparisons. Infact I have a spare set of forks and shock exactly the same as I have on my fighter so could do an exact side by side comparison of these 2 bikes. Obviously the stealth frames have been a bit influence on your design. I also have an assortment of drivetrains to bolt up so could review the handling with a light weight geared bicycle motor for those more pedal orientated right up to a 10kw+ e-motorbike hub. My youtube channel also gets around 50,000 views/month so that'd be good advertising and promotional exposure. OK that's it for my job application

Seriously though if someone else is in a better position then well and good, it certainly doesn't have to be me who reviews it. But I really think for the benefit of the ES community and to help you drive sales this is what you'd be wise to do.
If you do want to send me one I wouldn't expect it totally for free (unless you want to ) but obviously it'd be a fair investment of time to build up the bike, documenting and reviewing, swapping out drivetrains etc so we'd have to come to some arrangement. Anyway the offer is there, PM me if you're interested

If you know of Hyena........ IMO it should be free or you pay him and or send an assortment of motors and parts as well. And listen well to the feedback.

 

[Rix]

Paul G, I agree, it would be in Torque Bikes best interest to send Hyena a frame/'swing arm and let him build, test and demo the bike, they would get more real world feedback than their R&D currently has. Notice I said real world. That's really what it all comes down too.

Rick

 

[Drunkskunk]

.. 26''x3'' can fit on to swing arm without any problem. On the photo below you can see there's a 10cm spacing (tire on photo is 2.35'').
http://www.torquebikes.com/images/Slike/rear_tire_fit_into_swingarm.JPG

That looks workable for a wide tire. My biggest complaint with my Kona was the 2.5" tires filled it too tight. I'm thinking some 24X3 or 26X3 would be fun.

It really depends on what you want to use the bike for. As an e-moto sure, but for something you're going to pedal, even lightly, most wouldn't need 2+kwhr nor want to be lugging that weight around. I think making the frame accommodate packs 2 wide for and overall width of say 120mm would suffice for a more pedal oriented audience. Guessing off the frame dimensions you could still get an 18S3P pack in there (~70v 15ah) or possibly even a 24S3P

I think you're making a great case for why the Phasor is still relavent. The Phasor seems like more of a 1000-2000 watt pedal bike. The Raptor seems aimed at those who want to build a high powered E-motor in some quasi-street legal form.

That being said, 160mm isn't much as long as the pedals are widly spaced enough. Mopeds are usualy wider than that, and are easy enough to pedal if you could stand to be seen in public on one. My bike is 130mm wide, and with the 100mm bottom bracket, my knees are in no danger of ever hitting the frame.

 

[EdwardNY]

I discovered that ideally you should have 18s5p. Or 15 6s packs. If you are off roading this will give you enough power to the point you are exhausted.

18s3p is simply not enough. 18s4p i was wishing for more range. 18s5p seems pretty perfect.

I see your point about a wide bottom bracket. My cross country bike probably has a short one and wished it was a bit wider.

I find pedaling in most cases a hinderance when off roading. I can not keep myself as stable if i try and pedal. some times i want to pedal on some uphills to help cool the motor but i find myself losing stability and just dont.

My point is that battery capacity is more important then pedaling. To me it is way more important as i drive my bike to the places i off road then i drive back home.

But I also got into ebikes because I hated to pedal. I just dont want the few people who actually think they will pedal a heavy bike ruin it by making it more narrow. I just can not see why anyone would want to pedal.

 

[pchen92]

I'm interested in this frame in a near future
If we can fit at least 18s4p of lipo, that would be good 8)

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

I like to buy this frame but not for +/- 1200 euro

Considering the other options available, that isn't expensive; it's actually the cheapest. The Phasor frames, which I don't think are as nice are £1260 in comparison to £1100 for the Raptor.

I would like to know though if the Raptor frame is Chromoly like the Phasor or just mild steel.

Waauww 1260 pound which country makes Phasor frames?

 

[Rix]

Will the 160mm wide frame be a problem for any of you? I personally would rather have the 160mm width for fitting lipos sideways. If we shorten the frame to 130mm then we will not be able to fit 3 6s packs together because they are 50mm. We also would not be able to fit lipos sideways because they are 150mm long. So if we use 6s packs then it will be issues.
My current ebike has a battery bag that I stuffed out and is very wide, probably around 160mm as I have 3 lipos side by side in the bag. When I need to pedal which is hardly ever, it really is no problem. I hardly ever pedal my bike anyway because it is too heavy, I only really use the pedals for stability at low speeds.

Edward, I don't think the 160mm frame is a problem. That's what they are currently spec'd at. I think its going to be a problem if the perspective torques bike owners want to get the frame in a narrower version.

I think you're making a great case for why the Phasor is still relavent. The Phasor seems like more of a 1000-2000 watt pedal bike.

Drunk Skunk, exactly what I was thinking.

Rick

 

[rp3]

I discovered that ideally you should have 18s5p. Or 15 6s packs. If you are off roading this will give you enough power to the point you are exhausted.

18s3p is simply not enough. 18s4p i was wishing for more range. 18s5p seems pretty perfect.

All your 3p/4p/5p talk is completely irrelevant without mentioning the mAh of the packs.

 

[-Bugsy-]

Has anyone got a reply from these guys?
Customer knocks on door with a handful of cash and nobody answers. Doesn't inspire confidence that a product will turn up at my door. Especially buying site unseen from OS.

 

[sacko]

Has anyone got a reply from these guys?
Customer knocks on door with a handful of cash and nobody answers. Doesn't inspire confidence that a product will turn up at my door. Especially buying site unseen from OS.

Thought I was the only one with this issue. I was told I would get a reply in the morning, that was nearly 3 days ago.

 

[competitions]

For those waiting on a reply, were you asking about frames or full prebuilt bikes?

I sent an email a week ago about full prebuilt bikes and no reply. Their website has no specs or prices on prebuilt, but they could at least acknowledge emails and state they are awaiting component pricing before releasing full bike retail and shipping details.

When a company doesn't answer initial emails makes you wonder how bad they will be if you need after sales help.