Merlin said:hmm..so you limit your system with the controller and not with your cycle analyst?! (that you can setup power levels with Display also)
Offroader said:Merlin said:hmm..so you limit your system with the controller and not with your cycle analyst?! (that you can setup power levels with Display also)
Merlin, I didn't even know cycle analyst can limit the power level. I actually was quite surprised when it limited my power when I started to hit my max temp and didn't have my throttle hooked up to it.
Mammalian04 said:Looks nice and beefy! Do you balance your wheels after putting on tires or just line the tire's "dot" up opposite the stem?
Some issues which should be minor. Because I use an alternating pattern the inner spokes extended past the nipple about 1mm. The outer spokes were mostly about 2-3mm below top of nipple with about two spokes around 4mm below top of nipple. Even though they were 4mm below nipple the spokes still had 3x the diameter of the 10 gauge spoke which I heard is the max that will grab anyway.
The other issue is the spoke doesn't wrap around the flange near the elbow as tightly as the thinner spokes. I'm not sure why this mattered and if it matters in my case.
Offroader said:I wanted to add that it was obvious I didn't use enough tension on my other builds because the spokes were unloosening. Would more tension have stopped the spokes breaking on hard hits I don't know for sure. I thought I had those spokes reasonably tight.
So I am not going to say at this point that 9/10 gauge are better than 11/12 gauge or even 12 gauge when I didn't have my wheel tensioned properly.
Will I personally use smaller spokes again? absolutely not.
Chalo said:Offroader said:I wanted to add that it was obvious I didn't use enough tension on my other builds because the spokes were unloosening. Would more tension have stopped the spokes breaking on hard hits I don't know for sure. I thought I had those spokes reasonably tight.
So I am not going to say at this point that 9/10 gauge are better than 11/12 gauge or even 12 gauge when I didn't have my wheel tensioned properly.
Will I personally use smaller spokes again? absolutely not.
Allow me to reiterate what I have said many times before: FAT SPOKES DON'T STAY TIGHT. Spokes have to have some elasticity to stay tight, and to share point loads on the wheel among several spokes. Using thicker than necessary spokes (and almost all spokes are thicker than necessary, including 14ga) is harder on your rims, harder on your hubs, and makes your spokes loosen at lower loads.
The reason 14-15ga butted spokes are more or less standard among good quality bicycles is because they are just elastic enough to to a spoke's job well, while being torsionally stiff enough to make wheelbuilding easy. They are much stronger than they have to be for bicycles or e-bicycles.
In wheels on my own bikes, I have had a few spoke breakages in 14ga spokes, fewer in 14-15ga butted spokes, and none at all in 15-16ga or 14-17ga spokes. I have ridden these bikes as daily transportation even when I weighed over 400 pounds.
But of course someone who weighs half as much as I do, using a motor that develops a whole lot less torque tension on the spokes than I do, using a bike with suspension to cushion shock loads to its wheels, needs spokes with four to eight times the cross-section of what I use successfully. Right.
Please be ethical and report back to us when your stuff breaks, so you can help prevent others from making the same mistakes.
Offroader said:I weighed the 9/10 gauge vs the 12 gauge spokes.
Each 12 gauge spoke and nipple weighs around 8 grams.
Each 9/10 gauge spoke and nipple weigh around 11.5-12 grams grams.
Total weight is about 10.2 oz (290 grams) for 12 gauge and 15oz (432 grams for 9/10 gauge)
About 5 to 6 oz (~150 grams) more for the heavier spokes. I think it is way worth it to be honest when using a motorcycle rim where you can tension them properly.
From my experience the 11/12 gauge, 12 gauge, and 13 gauge didn't cut it. I continuously broke them and ruined 2 rims. When you break a bunch of spokes on a hard hit the rim is now bent and unrepairable for even a reasonable true. However, those thinner spokes will hold up to pretty well to most beatings, especially the 11/12 gauge and even the 12 gauge. I think most people may not have issues unless they beat the bike or hit a pot hole, which happened to me when I was being careful with the 12 gauge spokes and broke 14 spokes and ruined a $100 dollar one week old rim. So from my own personal experiences, yeah, I can say the thin spokes don't cut it. And this is from 4 complete wheel builds that failed, and also many times having to squeeze the tire to the side to replace 5 or 6 broken spokes. So I probably had to change spokes out around 10 times (needing to replace 5 or more spokes at one time) in 1200 miles /4 months riding.
I think the controversy here is the fact that thinner spokes are better for bicycle rims. You can't tension those thick spokes enough on a bicycle rim or you will bend it.
The other thing is that when using a motorcycle rim and tire you are able to drive so much harder and beat the bike so much more without fear of a pinch flat. The thinner gauge spokes just won't hold up to this.
My last ride proved that 9/10 gauge spokes can be tensioned high enough on a prowheel rim that they will not come loose. I see no advantage to using the thinner spokes, especially since you are only adding around 5 oz more of weight for the thicker spokes.
Rix had it right about recommending the thicker spokes, and I wished I listened to him from the beginning, but he was the only one who recommended thicker spokes. I listened to most people on the forum recommending the thinner spokes. I actually started at 13 gauge at first because that was recommended and they failed very quickly. It is not because the people are fully wrong, it is that they are recommending thinner spokes based on tensioning them to bicycle rims. They are not taking into account a 130lbs bike with a motorcycle rim and a rider who is smashing it on a lot of things with a bike that has the suspension and frame strength to easily smash the bike around.
I think 9/10 gauge may be the best option for the prowheel. 8 gauge may not be needed (more time will tell if the 9/10 gauge are strong enough) and you will have to enlarge the hole on the flange too much. 9 gauge at the elbows is very thick and I can't see that ever breaking. The 10 gauge is also all you need for the rest of the spoke and the threads are large so they won't pull through the nipple. The best way to put it is my cromotor now seems like it is welded to the rim.
Funny thing is that the front wheel I use 14/15 gauge. I have never trued this rim since I built it and when I checked how true it was within .3mm. As we know the front wheels are never an issue and also never pinch flat.
efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:Offroader,
looks like you are getting lots of practice building & truing your wheels.. good job!
don't forget to use spoke prep when you lace up the wheel.. its like a soft grade thread lock..
spoke prep will help keep your spokes from loosening (if they are at proper tension) but can still be adjusted (trued).. but it looks like you used spoke prep from the pics?? (stuff on the nips
if the moto spokes keep coming loose after break-in maybe try a bit heavier grade lock-tight on the spoke threads if needed.. and yes motorcycle weight & power needs motorcycle strength parts, spokes included..
ecruz said:Yeah it does look dirbike ish. How about some gloves that have protection wouldn't that be a good compromise?