Weird Controller dilemma

[Lurkin]

I've received confirmation its definitely a King Meter J-LCD. The vendor mentioned BLVD, JOCKS after that, but I'm not too sure what that actually means. I think I will just buy one and be done with it. Seems like a waste though, because if its not actually being used to control anything (hoping to use CA V3) then it will go in the bin pretty shortly.... :x

 

[amberwolf]

It's possible that the display has to be hooked up in order for some features to work, or to be at anything other than default settings (i.e., settings may be stored in the display rather than the controller, and sent to the controller on each power-up).

But I don't know for sure; cant' remember if I ever tested that on the Fusin kit or not. Even if I did, it doens't mean other controller/display combos would be like that.

I do think I recall that the Fusin one had to be changed from the default lowest setting to something higher at each power-on, if it had been disconnected from the battery, and that required the display. But I haven't looked bakc thru that thread to verify that.

 

[Lurkin]

Last night I came across a thread (can't remember if it was on here or a pedelec site), where someone had used an arduino to feed the controller the same information the display would, replacing the display with an arduino.

Didn't have time to go through it fully, but I do have one sitting about at home. Might give that a stab and see what happens. I really, really, really like the idea of not buying one of these displays. They are expensive for something that I don't actually want. The cycle analyst should be able to report far more than the display can including logging...

 

[amberwolf]

Then your best first bet is to just see if it powers on when 48V and SW are jumpered. If it does, then hook it all up on a bike and test it, and see if you get operation as expected. If not, then you can start worrying about decoding and emulating the data stream needed to talk to the controller and listen back.


EDIT:
Just a side note, but it's odd that I can't see your PB-linked images in this thread, but this guy's
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=81348
*do* show up in his thread.... :?

 

[Lurkin]

I have put 48v+ to SW. When I do this, LED2 on the board (red) flashes. I read somewhere else (not sure if it was this forum or another) that this is normal.
When I do this, my power supply (using a cheap lap power supply) reads 0.02amps. So it looks like its turning on ok.
Twisting the throttle had no results, turned out to be faulty JST connection on the throttle. Honestly, JST connections would be great for people with small fingers, skill and dexterity, but useless for people with monster digits.

If I wanted to avoid using the throttle altogether, and just tell the controller "full throttle" do I connect RED to GREEN, RED to BLACK (short) or GREEN to BLACK?
I have tried to connect green to red - no results.
(I have the current limited on the power supply, even if I give it full stink it will be controlled).

 

[Lurkin]

Tried reterminating the JST on the throttle, then taking the plug off altogether and using the pins to croc clips. No response. Grrr.

[EDIT] wonder if its trying to work off PAS instead. I.e. the display needs to have informed the controller that the throttle is present instead? just a guess really

- I have unplugged the throttle and plugged in a PAS sensor, which just happens to be a 12 Magnet King Meter PAS Sensor 8) The red LED in it lights up, but despite patiently constantly moving the magnets around does nothing. Dillenger AU may have shed a bit of light, saying there is no throttle only mode or zero PAS... so that may have something to do with this issue. i.e. the controller needs to be advised to shift into PAS 1 or more mode (Source: https://electricbikereview.com/dillenger/350w-geared-electric-bike-kit/)

- given this controller is programmable, perhaps I an switch off the requirement or even the attempt of the controller to access/ expect instructions/ communication from the display.

I've emailed the manufacturer to see if there's a way to use a CA V3 instead, will be great to see what they come back with.

Delving into other forums now to try and find answers. Michael Fabry et al. have complied a library for arduino here:
https://github.com/jenkie/Arduino-Pedelec-Controller/blob/68f7d4d30a1cfff9f0df2a667f0e4a7a61041841/Arduino_Pedelec_Controller/display_kingmeter.cpp
https://github.com/jenkie/Arduino-Pedelec-Controller/blob/68f7d4d30a1cfff9f0df2a667f0e4a7a61041841/Arduino_Pedelec_Controller/display_kingmeter.h

Pretty impressive. Hopefully, I now have what I need the do the rest:

- [strike]work out the protocols used by the J-LCD[/strike]
- how to replicate them with an arduino or similar and get it to work
- load the correct code and test
- set up a test display LCD screen to work out whats going on
- work out how either remove the arduino with CA functionality. Alternatively, interface arduino to CA and reduce code/pin requirements to use a mini arduino.

 

[amberwolf]

I expect from your results that this controller is setup so that it requires the PAS pulses in order to work at all. It may also respond to throttle *while PAS is going*, or it might be setup to only operate from PAS until you change the mode from the LCD controls (that you don't haffve).


As for using a Cycle Analyst, you can always use one with any controller...it just can't communicate with the controller like the LCD the cotnroller is designed to use does. It is a completely external control unit using just the controller's throttle and brake lines to perform feedback into the controller, and using either the controller's own shunt or an external shunt to monitor battery current.

There is no way to use any CA to change any settings in the controller or make it behave differently in regards to whether PAS or throttle work or don't work, etc. It also can't read any data coming from the controller. For that you'd need either the LCD or some other device with the right communications protocol and "language" and data order, etc.


The PAS, if it's designed to take pulses to keep it operating, could probably use a 555-timer chip based circuit to make continuous pulses on it as along as power is turned on. This would fool the controller into thinking it was always getting the PAS-active signal, fi that's all it uses it for, and then use the throttle to control the actual speed/etc.

If it actually uses the PAS to control the speed/power/etc, you could still make a throttle to control it, if the PAS still uses pulses. You'd use the same 555-timer circuit, except one of the fixed resistors (that determines frequency) would be replaced with a potentiometer that is your throttle, directly or indirectly. Then as you change the pot value with your throttle, it'll change the frequency of the 555 output, which then fools the controller into thinking the PAS is spinning faster or slower, which then makes it spin the mtoor faster or slower.

 

[Lurkin]

I think we are on the same page.

The plan is to use an arduino rather than a 555 timer chip. 555 would be way cheaper, but the arduino could be used for monitoring other things as well (multiple temperature sensors, shunt, humidity, smoke sensors. Its actually a little project I've always intended on (and I've already bought it, the sensors, an lcd and more) so it sorta makes sense.

Further, it seems like the pedelec guys have worked it the other way round. Imagine replacing the CA with an arduino and using a controller as a slave (seems the same as the CA V3 concept). Thats actually what they have designed so they can use cheap controllers yet have all the higher lever functionality, also for cheap.

All I need to do, is put the libraries they have already written for the display protocol to actually do what I want. Theres two parts to that (1) use the arduino with a serial monitor script monitoring the RX and TX from the controller and nothing else. this will tell me what the controller is 'asking for' if anything on start up (2) work out what to tell the controller. It seems the pedelec forum guys have already worked this out - I just need to specialise it and cut out the other stuff they have used it for. Lastly, code commands to buttons = same as a display and code for the generic LCD = replicates the display.

Once thats done and working well, time to move toward coding extras in. Warnings for smoke detection and high/low temperatures. Data logging should also be far easier with an arduino. Keyless start and stop. GPS tracking for security, so on, so forth.

Its funny actually, I was actually very keen to just get the CA set up and receiving some data so I can test some of the data logging solutions I have got (I haven't forgotten our prior discussions that you were still interested in a cheap logging device, which I think I have solved). I think I will get the above done, then set up the test power supply with the CA and get logger testing.

Testing before hooking up to Arduino:
TX + GND = 5V
RX + GND = constantly changing in the millivolts range.
This is ok, Arduino RX TX pins also operate at 5v. Good https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/arduinoBoardMega

 

[d8veh]

I've never known a controller with a throttle connector that needed a PAS for it to work, except some low-powered ones for the European market that have 6km/h throttles.

There was one special version of the old KU93 that was marked something like "Pedal assist first" that required you to pedal before the throttle would work and the old Powerbykes with SLAs had bespoke controllers that required you to pedal once before the throttle would work normally. There's probably others, but not standard controllers.

 

[Lurkin]

Interesting, the manufacturer has come back advising that it should work at a rate under max level with Switch and 48+ connected.

This must mean my connection between the throttle and controller is faulty. Interesting, the King Meter PAS connection is JST connected and heatshrunk.. unless the wiring within is incorrect. Back to the drawing board.

Tried to reprogram the arduino mega I had on the shelf. Literally had been 12 months to the day that I had saved a sketch! no wonder I cannot remember any of the programming. I'll just have to just keep pushing and work it out for myself.

 

[Samd]

What plug does it have for the display Lurkin?

 

[Lurkin]

5 pin JST

 

[Samd]

Think I might have a spare if there's any use in trying to swap one mate?

 

[Lurkin]

Thanks Samd, thats kind of you. I'll keep it in mind. I want to try to delete it in the mean time with an arduino being the answer.

 

[Lurkin]

Hey Samd, if you do have one spare how much do you want for it?

Still haven't had any luck getting anything out of this controller. Really starting to wonder if the supplier has screwed up the terminations somehow as it should be working by now.

 

[d8veh]

you can solder the wires together, when do you need to disconnect the display?

 

[Lurkin]

After what a year? finally figured out what was wrong. Was using (I think) the PAS signal with a throttle. throttle - white wire, PAS - green. This goes against the other information I found on the net... ARGH! Yes, the blue wire is ignition and is required as well (tried with and without).

Anyway, got it going, super, super, super stoked! Now to add connections for CA.. hmm another day of this...

So weird.. cant see any obvious copper shunt bars at the top of the controller. Thinking it might be better to get an RC micro shunt and use that instead of butchering this?

 

[OldManOnaBike]

Just started having issues with my e-bike that uses the same controller. Lots of great info in this thread. Looking forward to learning more and sharing my discoveries. My twist grip broke it's return spring. The mfg sent me a replacement that didn't have a power switch the original had. It did not work. Mfg claims that it should work the lack of a switch shouldn't matter. Popped the cover of the enclosure for the controller. Found some toasted connectors. Cleaned up the damage but the new twist grip still doesn't work, but the old one does. I'll dig deeper. Thanks for all the great info.

 

[amberwolf]

If the switch in teh original one had battery voltage on it, then most likely the siwtch simply connected battery voltage to the "keyswitch/ignition/doorlock" feature of the controller to enable it (it really just provides power to the controller's LVPS to power the MCU/etc). Sometimes the switches are used for other things, but that is the most common. You can check it with your voltmeter to be sure.

If you don't get 5v to the throttle on the new one, but do on the old one, and you're sure the wiring is correct, then you should be able to simply short the two wires that used to go to the switch, to each other (and nothing else), to turn on the controller.

Just don't go connecting anything with battery voltage on it to something you're not sure about, as that tends to cook them.