Optibike mid drive

So in case anyone else on the group owns an optibike or thinking about buying one, i am starting here an optibike thread...for owners and people curious about the bike. Are there any owners out there? I know one guy here on the sphere converted his opti to 72 volts and made a screamer...is that bike still around?

I posted my complete review here: http://www.electricbike.com/optibike-850r-ride-and-review/

i got a deal on a local otpibike 850r that i just could not pass up. I already own a number of high end bmc hub motor bikes.

Specs for 850r:
Latest greatest optibike
850 watt mid drive motor
Rohloff 14 speed hub connected to mid drive. Motor and rider have 14 speeds.
22ah battery pack (honest 35 mile to 60 mile range) depending on riding style (on flat terrain)
30mph top speed while pedaling
super high end componentry the highlight being fox talas 36 and fox float in rear...6 inches of travel.

I was in love with the bike from the first time i saw it at a SF museum exhibit and always wanted one but price point was way to large for me.
I got such a great deal on the bike i am pretty sure i can sale it down the road for close to what i bought it for if i end up not riding it in the future. For nothing else it is really interesting to see how it stacks up to my bmc builds which i always thought were close to opti performance and build quality.

So for my optibike review i will list the following advantages and disadvantages of the optibike over my high end bmc hub drive bikes:

So compared to the bmc the optibike has striking advantages and disadvantages...and for me the bmc works better for my kind of riding. But that is just initial impression because i have only been on 3 major optibike rides.

Advantages
Great super steep hill clmber...great for mountain off road trails usually unaccessible with any ebike i know about. I will challenge anyone on this thing for rugged steep grade trail for miles....this bike makes mincemeat of ebike smoking trails.
Tight compact balanced build perfect for jumping and rough riding...no jingling jankiness here.
Nice looking bike
Rugged and durable construction..may be the most rugged ebike i know. Great for adventure rides in middle of nowhere.
REAL support from a factory with really good people running the show...lots of people will need this and opti offers really good support.
Great efficiency (but not off the charts efficiency)...i would estimate its a little more efficient than bmc...but with bmc you can carry more batteries.
Oneness with motor...you pedal with the motor...and the motor needs your help when getting to speed etc...so i feel i tend to exercise more on this bike than on a bmc.

Disadvantages
Expensive
Loud (impossible to be stealth)
Underpowered (the bmc totally outperforms it on everything but really steep climbs)
too much shifting (you really have to involve yourself in the shifting process while riding)
Upgrades (ie batteries) are proprietary and expensive

If i did more steep single track mountain riding and climbing and i was proud to be an ebiker i would love the optibike. But since i way rather to appear as a cylclist than an ev guy....i prefer the BMC.

Throw the cost into the equation and the bmc really starts to win the battle.....you could build a hell of a bmc build with 6k...amazing frame, amazing components, 3 10ah lipo battery packs, super bright lights, etc etc.....and you would still be at half the price of an opti. Even when considering labour from a pro builder like Ilia at ebikes-sf to build it...bmc's are just a magic carpet ride...especially given a quality platform...on a walmart bike forget about comparing to optibike.

Ok so if you guys are interested i will continue to test and post real data here. I plan to take the opti on some gnarly single track rides that i would never attempt on my bmc...we shall see if i become a opti convert.

So do I get a finder's fee?

Jethro...

You might owe me a beer or something depending on my mood.

I keep getting hit with buyers remorse...but a ride the other night i could have never done on bmc, or any other ebike i know of ...and the view at the top of the ride was spectacular. This viewpoint is the best i have ever seen of dowtown sanfrancisco...

The hill i am talking about is a quarter mile...steep and dirt. At the top of the quarter mile is a peek which has been shaved down to be level and smooth...looks like a giant helipad.

Anyway i love this hang out spot and its only 6 miles from my house. We did this ride with the optibike and 2 bmc's...and i was really worried my buddies were going to smoke those bmc's by even attempting to ride up. Lucky for me they hiked most of the way.

Maybe this viewpoint is not enough to justify the optibike...but if i find 10 more very hard to access spectacular viewpoints here in the bay area optibikeable from my house..i might change my mind. I am building an extenda-pack which for sure should get me to the top of mount tam...so we shall see what develops.

Here is a view of slackers peek:


Coming will be a video of this climb from my helmet cam...if anyone wants to try the climb on there bike and you live in the bay area...i will meet any ebiker for a ride this weekend...ride over the bridge..and tackle slackers peek.

Hi Extremegreenmachine,

Thanks for this reviews I have another "mid drive" project in my mind and this review confirm allot of possibility for it, I'm very interested to see how your Optibike will perform "off road" on steeper hills area.

Good day!
Black Arrow

If i were doing a mid drive i would def consider putting on the Rohloff speed drive. Its amazing for hill climbing cuz of its 530 percent gear range. Works pretty flawlessly with the motor...no deraillers at all on the bike.

THe optibike climbs steep grades at a steady 4-5 mph or even slower...just chugs up the hill like a train. HOw steep? Imagine the steepest grade any pedal powered mtber would even attempt, or even an off road motorcycle....like fall over backwards steep if you pedal too hard. That is the type of climb the otpibike really performs well on...and since you are going at such a low speed you can use your feet to keep from falling over etc.

I am pretty sure the "slackers peek" ride, as detailed above has never been successfully done on an ebike.... especially battery considerations when not beginning the ride at the base of the hill (i rode from 6 miles away to base, and rode 6 miles back). You feel like you can go where no other ebike has gone before. I am sure there are some bikes on this group, especially rc builds that could attempt such a ride...but for one the bike might be too heavy, geared too high, and i dont know who would want to risk there expensive creation on a hill like that without a warranty. If anyone wants to attempt the ride alongside an optibike, i am planning a sunday sunset ride to the peek....check the events section.

The only question is whether i will ever burn it out...

But it does have heat sensors on motor and controller that avoid frying the bike...so i expect it to hold up.

Plus it is very well balanced....feels like a regular mountain bike...just a bit heavier (55 pounds).

The biggest problem for me with the optibike is the noise...and i have the newest quietest gear set...i cant imagine how loud the old set is.

The 2nd biggest problem is its lack of speed...for the first time i was passed by a roadbike on the GG bridge on this thing. And my friends on bmc's kept having to pull over and wait..the only time the optibike outperformed 600w bmc's was in very steep terrain which the bmc would flounder.

Hi Extremegreenmachine,

I too have liked the Optibike’s design when it first came out. Styling could be a little better but the rest is really well thought out. I consider the Optibike the gold standard to shoot for in trail riding currently for those who like to pedal as I do. I would love to own one but it’s hard for me to justify the cost.

I look forward to the comparison since I’m a big fan of the BMC’s motors. I built one for riding trails specifically after all the research. I wanted the high torque and the ability to use all 27 gears, freewheel and quiet stealth factor. 90 percent of my riding on this bike is on trails and it’s held up, even through a dozen crashes. I kept the power level down to keep the gears happy. My max speed is 21mph, but on trails that is plenty fast through single track. My setup is BMC 600w V2T, 40volts with current set to 35amps. Capacity is 24ahrs. Max trails distance to date is 32mile with pedalling. I’ve put over $2.5k into this build, not to mention my time as well, but it doesn’t have the high end shocks or suspension travel, and I’m not sure if the geometry is even ideal, but for my area, and the riding conditions; I’m more than happy with the final results and look forward to every ride I take with it into the woods. It has performed very well. I consider my self an advance skier and snowboarder and I have the same feel with this bike through the woods. I need to demo some high end mountain bikes someday to see if that makes me want to upgrade. Unfortunately, I’m getting older and my peak riding days are over, but still a firm believer that performance has a lot to do with equipment if you have some talent.

I did build a mid motor cyclone as my first foray into this. Not bad, but the noise and setup wasn’t what I wanted. I was not able to pedal usefully on all the gears. It does make a great utility bike though and I use it for groceries. A Rohloff would be something to consider if I ever do another mid drive build.

This summer I will have a 6x10 9C built for comparison as well. It supposedly has the torque I want, but I suspect I won’t care for it since it has no freewheel, being a direct drive. It will be my backup bike, but we will see.

So far from your comparison, hill climbing is what I’m lacking on my BMC. Since I don’t live in any mountainous area, even though we have some pretty good trail climbs. I think I did a good job in building a bike coming close to that of an Optibike with the resources on hand. I look forward to the rest of you detailed comparisons. My speed is slower as well, but perfect for trail riding, which is what I want and the low noise is really something I enjoy. I can ride the bike without the rear battery pack since I have 12ahrs in the triangle, but have been spoiled by the extra distance. I don't find I notice the weight back their but know it's not ideal. Too bad I don't live in SF, I would definitely be up for some rides.

My bike

Very interested to hear more about the bike and the ongoing impressions especially in comparison to other legal power level ebikes.

To me its seems like a really well designed package that makes the most of the available power. I can't say I particularly like the styling but its obviously a very practical layout.

Being a Stealth bike owner, I so want to make comparisons. Sure, I can climb any thing an Optibike can and then go at 50mph afterwards all in practical dead silence. However, I sure as hell can't do it with 850W thats for sure and that is probably the main point here.

I thought of going with the 5000 series, but the weight was not an option, not to mention the lack of a freewheel. How practical is it to really pedal the Stealth? 125lbs is ridiculously heavy for a bike. To me it's more inline with a motocross than a bike and I would not want to have to pedal it without power. Something I have found myself doing quite often since I tend to push the limits on my packs.

I do like the new lighter stealth fighter version, but at 103lbs throwing it around isn't going to compare to a mountain bike feel. That one is closer to a mountain bike that I'm after. I don't know much about the gearing setup, but it sounds just as bad as the original. Same heavy motor I believe, but with my battery pack in back, my total rear weight is approaching 20lbs with the motor. This I could compromise on. Don't know the cost of the fighter but might be within reason. I would have certainly looked at that bike if it was out when I was deciding. I like the large battery area, and its location. Still, the lack of gears for pedal power turns me off. I got more exercise from e-biking than any other sport since I did it so much last year and look forward again to it this season. My bike weighs 73lbs with the rear pack, the rear pack weights 10. so with it off I'm approaching the wieght of the optibike. 60lbs from the website. Considering a good mountain bike weighs 30lbs. you will realize the weight and performance difference.

I have to say that there is only one or two videos on the web that I have found that REALLY peaked my interest in E bikes and the first one was the Opti. I was enthralled by this video: [youtube]XhRhx2WRq2w[/youtube]

The sheer usability of it is what made me want to build my "Current Cycle" for a LOT less money because I felt this kind of fun should be able to be had by all! I am hoping to achive this level of off road performance and still do 40MPH on the road. WE SHALL SEE. But I am giving it hell!! Once I am happy with the performance, I will post final pricing and all the options.

The Opti in my mind is truly the best possible "blend" of performance while remaining technically road legal. The mid drives do allow a LOT of punch for the rated wattage and that is for REAL! My Current bike is only drawing an average of 1000 watts and about 1200 peak, and let me tell you, in first gear you BETTER hang on, it has more kick than an 80cc dirtbike up to the 12 or so MPH you get in first. And that is from experience, I have owned a lot of motocross bikes and raced them too!

In case anyone's interested, here's the Optibike patent:

kfong said:

I thought of going with the 5000 series, but the weight was not an option, not to mention the lack of a freewheel. How practical is it to really pedal the Stealth? 125lbs is ridiculously heavy for a bike. To me it's more inline with a motocross than a bike and I would not want to have to pedal it without power. Something I have found myself doing quite often since I tend to push the limits on my packs.

I do like the new lighter stealth fighter version, but at 103lbs throwing it around isn't going to compare to a mountain bike feel. That one is closer to a mountain bike that I'm after. I don't know much about the gearing setup, but it sounds just as bad as the original. Same heavy motor I believe, but with my battery pack in back, my total rear weight is approaching 20lbs with the motor. This I could compromise on. Don't know the cost of the fighter but might be within reason. I would have certainly looked at that bike if it was out when I was deciding. I like the large battery area, and its location. Still, the lack of gears for pedal power turns me off. I got more exercise from e-biking than any other sport since I did it so much last year and look forward again to it this season. My bike weighs 73lbs with the rear pack, the rear pack weights 10. so with it off I'm approaching the wieght of the optibike. 60lbs from the website. Considering a good mountain bike weighs 30lbs. you will realize the weight and performance difference.

Click to expand...

I think you have some old data there. Latest Bomber is 116lbs. Latest Fighter is 75 lbs. Mine with 1.2kW/hrs LiPo is 105lbs. That being said, its still not a fun thing to pedal too far without assistance thats for sure. Other thing that works against you is the big suspension travel that sinks 3" every time you push hard on the pedals. Great for off-road compliance, not so great for pedal efficiency.
Motor's on the Fighter are now HT or HS series Clyte. 75lbs and 3kW on tap is a nice place to be. Not a bad weight for 1.1kW/hr of battery onboard too.

Sorry, back to the Optibike, just wanted to make that correction though.

Yesterday the weather was terrific in the bay area, and decided to do some single track riding in marin county (supposedly where the mountain bike was invented) in one of the most known single track rides china camp.

I did a 15 mile ride on the optibike usinga little more than half the batter pack on very rugged hill conditions, alongside anohter rider on a front wheel bmc.

Here are some observations:

Noise. The noise of the optibike cannot be under stated. Although not very loud it has an annoying pitch...probably a lot like a RC motor. Weather being good there were many riders out on the trails yesterday, and those that figured out we were on ebikes were a little weird about it and we got several snyde remarks shouted out to us as we rode away. Imagine the quiet forest and being in nature, and you got this whining motor that sounds a little like an electric chain saw. But keep in mind this is on very crowded riding trails in a very "grouchy" and rich marin county. More on noise and being noticed later because it deserves coming back to.

Safety...the optibike climbs like a goat. I found myself in the problem riding single track that i would be going too fast up the uphills, and we really had to be careful around blind corners because other bikers were not expecting a bike to be going so fast on the uphill, and they would by flying down fast on the downhills....once i had a near collision with a "bombing" downhill bike. The optibike is built well and feels safe despite the above issue. But on a bmc that required high speed on slight uphills to keep its momentum...safety is a real issue...i think it is dangerous to ride these bikes at any type of high speed uphill in these kind of "coexist with other biker" singletrack conditions. Remember singletrack by definition is very narrow so hard for bikes going opposite direction to pass.

Climbing...the optibike is such an impressive climber. It does make much more noise climbing in the low gear than it does at high speed on flats in the high gears. But it gets the job done. THeir were many steep trails that i climbed just for the fun of it that the bmc had no chance at, and either did any of the hard core mountain bikers. Too be able to climb without any fear of burning anything out is a very liberating feeling. I have never rode anything this solid for climbing...



Trail riding in general....this bike is at home in a trail riding environment. It is so nicely balanced and a mere 55 pounds. It behaves more or less like a mountain bike...while on the downhills you quickly forget that you are on an electric bike. You could just use the electric motor as an elecrtric chairlift, and just bomb the downhills. The full suspension is very very nice in these conditions. You can easily ride 20 miles of dirt up and down clmbs and drops on one battery pack. The bike grips and just feel very good. Nothing is shaking around or making jankey noises. It completely outperforms the bmc in these conditions...and this is the first time i have seen the bmc bike blown away by the opti. But the bmc we were using is a front wheel drive, and to be fair front wheel drive is not good in these conditions. But also we were having problems with the bmc like the battery pack vibrating loose and falling off the back of the bike....stuff like that typical of a home build. Nothing is falling off the opti except for the rider if your not careful.

Regarding comparison to bmc..the big problem with climbing with the bmc is it need too much speed before it can climb efficiently. So you need to be going 10mph which is not practical, safe or possible on steep off road conditions. I have been there done that on a bmc...and definately with a rear wheel drive bmc, these were smoke-your-motor-if-not-careful conditioins. CLimbing with the optibike is carefree. I want to stress is that rugged trail riding is the only conditions so far where i would prefer riding a opti over bmc. If i trail rode these kind of trails regularly i think the otpi is a really good choice. I dont think the opti is a good choice for commuters or primarily road/fire trail riders.
View attachment optibike.wmv

Regarding comparison to stealth bomber: too me the true beauty of electric bicycling is to be able to take advantage of the legality of going where no motorized vehicle can go. Because the stealth bomber is so big and heavy and looks like an electric vehicle so much, i think the riders on the trail i was on yesterday would call 911 or call the ranger the first time they saw that on the trail. I think the consensus would be that such a big and heavy bike riding on a bike trail is a real danger to hikers and other riders and i think the ranger would agree. I think the problem would be the stealth is more of a motorcycle than a bicycle. I really think you would get in serious trouble riding a stealth bomber in that kind of trail, because it really defies common sense on what is considered safe. If you happened to be involved in collision injury with Stealth Bomber, you would lose your ass in lawsuit and so would the Stealth company, plus i bet ebikes would be outlawed on all marin trails pretty quickly. I have ridden etech powered vehicles similar to size, appearance, and performance of a stealth and i would have to agree it probably really is dangerous on this kind of single track trail that is crowded with hikers and other mountain bikers. The other issue is every once in a while there would be a tree blocking the trail that you would have to carry your bike over. It was hard enough lugging the opti over these obstacles...with a 120 pound stealth i think i would just be stuck and have to go back which would suck ass...And not to criticize the stealth bomber, i just think for this "mission' the optibike was best suited...but even on the otpibike i was walking a thin line that in marin county i would not want to fall over (lots of lawyers and bike snobs in marin county). The stealth bomber looks to be an amazing bike, but its such a loud statement and given its weight and battery consumption doesnt deserve to be in the same class as an opti. If i were the stealth company i would be very afraid of liability here in california with such a bike....given they are really cracking down here on what trails a mountain bike can ride on etc....one good "stealth crash" could end it all for ebikers on mountain bike trails in california. ALready i know of some riding trails that require electric bikes to have the "motor turned off"...and unfortunately with newer and faster, and bigger and uglier bikes coming out that is the direction we are headed here in Cali...so i am going to enjoy my electric trail riding while i can...mark my words it will be illegal soon here....and i would discourage makers such as stealth to have as promotional videos taking there bike on a chairlift and riding down designated mountain bike trails passing other riders etc....could hurt later if the #^%^# hits the fan.

Anyway for the first time yesterday i really thoroughly enjoyed the opti ...a perfect environment for this kind of ride blending in with the other cyclists (sort of). I think out of 40 cycylists we passed going the oposite direction on the ride...only about 5 realized we were electric bikes and thats cuz i mas motoring uphill as they waited for me to pass...so not so bad.

However, i was aware of the noise of the bike while climbing which kind of took away from the feeling of riding through the forest being in nature etc...and made me self conscious of being "discovered" by other cyclyists. For example i always cut the motor as other cyclists were passing and pedaled my heart out. i am sure the opti is quieter than 95% of mid drive systems so this is more a criticism of the mid drive than of the bike. What was really nice was coasting down hill where i was able to ride silently and take in nature sounds etc...so it was only on uphills that noise is the problem. Too me stealthiness is one of the greatest attributes of an electric bike, and the opti despite its amazing stealthy look, does not have stealthy noise....very unfortunate.

Nice report. What you are saying makes complete sense and I can certainly see the Optibike coming into its own in these conditions. Seems like the noise factor is the only real negative with this bike. Agreed, busy single pass tracks are no place for a for a Stealth Bike and the last thing anybody wants is to have irresponsible ebike riders spoil it for others. That being said, its not hard to ride the Stealth at normal bike speeds, and take it easy up hills. I ride at a major mountain bike park occasionally with the Bomber and find that I hardly draw any attention to the bike because its so quite. Admittedly though, I wouldn't ride their on busy weekends that's for sure as that would be just asking for trouble. Good point on getting over fallen tree too. I can ride over fallen trees up to about 1 1/2' in diam but after that, it means find a path around it. Usually not too hard to do though.

OK, That is the first good sound clip I have herd of the Opti in a really loaded condition. It's louder than I thought it was! I am feeling better about my drive every day! I think I can get it to about half that level with a few tricks... Thanks for the Opti-Input! I consider your bike to be my "target" and I have never actually seen one in person, so the videos and info really help!

-Bryan

One thing i have learned from the opti is how nice the rohloff works on a mid drive set up.

The rohloff is made for punishment and it seems to be able to handle whatever torque the motor can put out. I am not sure how it would put up with a real powerful bike...but it seems more solid than a traditional derailer system...the reputation of the rohloff is impeccable for dependability and ruggedness.

Getting rid of all derailers on a bike is a true luxury.

The real drawback to the rohloff is the price...1300 bucks on ebay...but worth every penny if you plan to put serious mileage on your bike. Imagine a maintenance free drive train that shifts smooth as silk.

Also the shiman alfine 8 i think may be nearly as good as the rohloff for an ebike...and its much cheaper $250, has 8 speeds build into the hub and from what i heard is virtually bulletproof (but not as bulletproof as the rohloff). 8 speeds is plenty for an ebike. Also the alfine 11 is just now hitting the market which is a rohloff knock off (gears ride in a oil bath) and you can get those for like $500.

I think all middrivers should consider one of these setups. The only reason why you dont see these on all high end modern bicycles is cyclists are generally weight weenies and dont like the extra pound these systems add to their bike. An extra pound is nothing to an ebiker.

Cool, I will have to look into the Alfine, but likely I will not be offering complete bikes, but you never know! That is more reasonable than 1200 bucks! YIKES!

More good feedback re: the alfine IHG - we have used these for the last 3 years in the greenpower electric cars (winning 4 national championships in that time ;^) These cars put up to a kilowatt into the gearbox, average about half that. The alfines have never missed a beat & seem to be as good now as 3 years ago - better in fact - the efficiency has improved as they've run in. That's over 2000 miles of racing + lots of testing and training on each of the 2 cars.
Previously we ran cars with shimano nexus 7 speed IHGs - these DID break after a few thousand miles and gears 6 and 7 ceased to exist when you spun them over about 800rpm (centrifugal forces affecting internal ratchet pawls I think)
(IHG = internally geared hub) http://www.greenpower.co.uk for more info - our cars are Brian and Zebedee

Thanks!

Ok more tests with the opti and some interesting data...

There is an amazing view point by my house here in SF on top of a cliff overlooking the entire bay called slackers peek.

The trail going to the top of this peek is a quarter mile, pretty rugged and very steep. I have tried it on a bmc and decided to walk it for fear of smoking motor.

So to make a long story short, we had a race with a money wager (undisclosed amount) to the top of this peek...a rugged bmx 9c build 48 volts on a bmx bike with 55 amp leon controller, a total of 3000 watts...no pedaling on this bike becuase it is is missing its chain, a 48v bmc 600 watt torque rear wheel drive running at 30 amps...pulling according to ca around 1300 watts...and the optibike 850r 36 volts 850 watts. I bet some money cuz i was sure the opti would win this match, because i thought both hub builds would overheat. Remember the 9c is non geared.

The bmc got smoked half way up and fried some of the wiring...and he had to walk up the rest of the way. At the point he smoked he was behind and losing ground to the opti. The $1200 9c build was the clear winner of this race...not even close....on the quarter mile he probably finished 1/8 of a mile ahead of the opti. Clearly the 9c is much more bullet proof than the bmc, and a better hill climber at this grade than the opti. Keep in mind also the 9c is not geared and he wasnt even pedaling. The 9c is also burning 3000 watts where the opti is running only 850...but the suprising thing is the 9c wasnt even close to overheating. The opti made it to the top of the grade no problem...but just slowly. It kind of just chugs up the hill.

Here is a video of the race at the early stages when the 9c and the opti were still close together:

http://www.vimeo.com/21909776

I lost some money on this hill climb....the 9c is an amazing motor...hats off to the direct drive hub motor...king of the slacker peak ridge...for now...

This is a surprise, I didn't expect the 9c to do so well. The opti bike did win out on the pikes peak challenge, but now I see it was more to due with efficiency than climb rate. Bummer about the BMC, allthough the climbs I have here in Mich. can be just as steep, they are not long. Over heating has not been a problem for me. Based on the comparisons so far. The BMC works well in the right conditions, but now you have me looking forward to how my 6x10 build will fair. Was the 9C bmx using a 26in wheel?

Having a reliable ebike in tough conditions, while deep in the forest is really important. Having is light enough to lift over big trees happens more often than you think. Especially after 60mph storms. Opti bike is still a great design, if over priced for my budget. I would not hesitate putting it among my stable if I come across one cheap. Gut the pack and up the voltage a little more. Then really watch how it performs. Thanks for the in-depth reports.

I really like these real world posts showing exactly how it is. I too am surprised how well the 9C did. The Opti isn't as noisy as I was expecting either.

What I would now like to see is a similar comparison with a well engineered 9C equipped mountain bike with a full operational gear set for pedal assist but current limited to 850W. Then do the same climb and see how they compare.

You can organize that for us cant you.

some very interesting points raised that chime perfectly with what I found having owned BMC motors for years and ridden the optbike a few times. I also found the optibike to be very underpowered as well, its a real shame as it could be much better IMHO, that said if you got the bike as cheap as you did then it might be a good deal. The Rohloff geared hub is a definite score! they are amazing and with the Opti its the only option to avoid the chain slipping under heavy load

and hey was that your video on Vimeo? really cool vid 8) looked like you had a great ride there...wipe that just saw it was your video, great work! who were the ES members you were riding out with then? did I miss this in another post maybe? :?

http://www.vimeo.com/21916303

knoxie said:

....The Rohloff geared hub is a definite score! they are amazing and with the Opti its the only option to avoid the chain slipping under heavy load..

Click to expand...

how does the choice of hub make any difference to the chain slipping ??

Staying with the legal power level theme, have riding my Bomber limited to around 850W (CA set to 7A :lol: ) just to see how ride-able the bike would be. Suprisingly the bike still peformed quite well. Close to 50kph on flat ground with a bit of assist and still climbed all my normal hills with ease. Need to test it on some really steep stuff but with some Granny gear pedal assist, I think it will still climb OK. Plan to take the bike up some really steep dirt tracks on the way home. Should be interesting.

Yeah i really got a lot of info on this last ride.

I really need to sit back and reassess.

But we are going to do some more testing and comparing with the opti for sure...i am thinking about installing a cycle analyst so we can measure and compare its efficiency.

What i really need to do is build a bike with one of these direct drive motors...i think the new crystallite....and i got enough bikes around i am going to ahve to sale the opti.

One thing is the 9c needed to fly up that hill to keep its momentum...i think any more steep or treacherous and he couldnt have done it...but damn..this hill was steep.

We were talking later on how steep that hill was..and to give you an idea it looks like a ranger's 4wd truck has not been up this hill in years....and doesnt look like such a truck could make it up safely without getting stuck. The hill is much steeper than it looks in the video somehow. The only vehicle i imagine easily climbing this hill is bmx motorcycle.

Anyway i was thinkig about keeping the opti just to have a bike to do these kind of climbs....but after that ride what i would rather have now is a bad ass direct drive bike. I always thought the bmc would be the best hub climber because of the gearing..but how wrong i was....i guess when it comes down to it its all about wattage...and you can pump a lot of wattage through one of these direct drives and not worry about smoking anything.

Regarding the opti and the pikes peak challenge...not only does the opti seem pretty efficent....i think the big thing in that race is to be able to climb for 20 straight miles (2 hours) without anything overheating or failing...pretty tough task. I would never attempt such a task on a non warrantied opti...but mine has a warranty for 2 more months

Regarding the noise of the opti....

i heard someone on the opti group describe it "as just enough to keep you honest". It really isnt that loud...and its at its loudest in these type of conditions climbing in low gear under severe load. Its an annoying pitched noise to me. In fact one day i let a friend borrow the bike and i thought for sure i heard him outside a few minutes later and it was an electric weed whacker...that kind of noise. BUt its definitely loud enough that to any pedestrian or cyclyist "here comes an electric bike"....i really hate that.

Noise has turned out to be one of the most important elements to me in a bike...and the 9c was much quieter than even the bmc which is pretty quiet.