Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

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Rassy   1 MW

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Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » May 14 2015 4:26pm

As much as I enjoy my trikes equipped with the NuVinci auto shifts (Developer Kits), they aren't very efficient or very easy to pedal without using assist. Over a year ago I installed a Bafang BBS02 on a bike for one of my sisters. She was having some problems with the BBS02 so I got her a new BBS02 from Paul at EM3EV. Then with Paul's help, I repaired the older unit, which I have now installed on a Performer Trike-X. My first thought was to replace the mid-drive on one of my existing trikes with the BBS02, but rationalized my way to doing a whole new project instead.

One of my requirements was to end up with a rear derailleur and the 9 speed on the Performer should work fine.

The only modification I made to the original trike (other than installing the Bafang), was a longer rear seat support, 5" long instead of 2 1/2" long. I did this for my riding position, but it also left enough room for a 48V 10AH Ping battery between the seat and the rear rack

I've just completed the electrical work and haven't ridden the trike outside since installing the Bafang, so more to come later.

Edit: Battery was moved to rear rack bag and switches and Watt meter are between the rack and the seat.
Edit: the links below are for the old mid drive builds that used the NuVincis and 9C motors

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=47043

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=18606
Attachments
Performer with Bafang.JPG
Performer with Bafang.JPG (231.96 KiB) Viewed 5774 times
Last edited by Rassy on May 30 2017 12:07pm, edited 4 times in total.
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Rassy   1 MW

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » May 14 2015 9:11pm

Got in a 7 mile test ride this afternoon between showers. Not much to report. I tightened the suspension spring because there was more pedal steer than I'm used to on the non-suspended Terra Trikes.

The head rest felt good without my helmet, but not so comfy with the helmet. The straps were pretty loose, so I've adjusted them for the next ride.

The top speed was set at 26 KPH on the Bafang, and when I saw that I was thinking MPH. So at about 16 or 17 MPH the motor would cut out until it slowed to about 15 MPH. I've reset the top speed to 35 KPH, which should solve that issue.

One of my goals was to have a trike that was easier to pedal without assist, and this trike feels more like my old LWB recumbent bike that had a brushed front hub motor. I expect this trike will use measurable less Watt hours than the NuVinci equipped trikes. On a mile long side by side test with no pedaling on a flat road my buddy used 1/2 the Watt hours. His hand cycle is pushed by a one wheel trailer with a brushed motor versus my mid-drive brushless 9C equipped with a NuVinci.
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » May 14 2015 11:53pm

I've had a question concerning mounting the Bafang display unit on this trike. It is mounted on the left side fender mount which is attached to the top of the king pin assembly. I used a little handle bar extension that I think they use on road bikes to give your hands a different place to rest. I used the original Bafang mount, but it is only attached by one of it's handlebar mounts, plus, another hole was drilled in the mount to allow the display to be rotated about 90 degrees.

Sorry my camera and picture taking skills are quite limited
Attachments
Bafang Mount 001.JPG
Bafang Mount 001.JPG (182.63 KiB) Viewed 5721 times
Bafang Mount 003.JPG
Bafang Mount 003.JPG (221.63 KiB) Viewed 5721 times
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Minister » May 16 2015 6:34am

Hi, I am interested in how much the torque affects the boom on the Performer. I tried my BBS750 on my Catrike Expedition for a very short test but felt that it was torqueing the boom too much.
I wound up installing it on my 29er instead.
TO GOD BE THE GLORY!

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Triketech » May 16 2015 8:38am

Catrikes are quite light weight with a rather weak boom design. Not to mention the front weight bias that reults in stoppies. Excellent all around trike, but definitely not compatible with a mid drive.

Good article at bentrider about a 500W BBS02 mounted on an ICE. Boom is more stout, but does exhibit some flex; not an objectionable level.

I may mount one on an HPV later this year. Very stout boom. Just not sure if thats the way I'll go yet. Also considering a few hub motors but nothing seems to really match up my requirements.

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Rassy   1 MW

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » May 16 2015 12:18pm

The boom on the Trike-X is aluminum and quite stout and resists flexing better than either my Path or Rover Terra Trikes. Just a dozen miles worth of test runs so far, but I don't think boom flex is going to be an issue. on both the Terra Trikes (not aluminum) I had to fabricate a chain tensioner because of flex when pedaling hard. The Trike-X has a spring loaded derailleur unit so even if there is minor flexing it will be handled.
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » Jun 10 2015 1:28pm

I've put several hundred miles on the trike now, and it meets all my goals. The primary goal was to have something I could comfortably pedal without using any assist. On level ground I can easily maintain 9 MPH for more than 10 miles.

Today's ride was a typical ride for me. 10 to 11 MPH with assist level 1 and light pedaling for almost 12 miles. Battery consumption was 1.5 AH or 77 WH. In order to go faster I'll have to bump the Bafang up to assist level 2 or 3. I'll make this same ride at 15 MPH and see how the battery consumption compares.

Because the trike can be operated so efficiently I don't plan to carry more than a single 48V 10AH battery since my longest rides are usually under 40 miles. So I removed the battery box, lowered the seat to it's original position, and carry the battery in the rear rack bag.

Earlier I mentioned the helmet issue with the head rest. A successful solution was to purchase a new helmet that fits snuggly with no inside harness. I tried on several, and the one that fit like a glove was the Bell Manifold Helmet. It is very light weight and doesn't move around on my head when resting against the head rest. This helmet is so comfortable I wear it by choice even when riding a trike with no head rest. I may have to find a very thin winter cap for use in cold weather in order to use this helmet year around.
Attachments
Perfomer 003.JPG
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Rassy   1 MW

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » Jun 13 2015 3:10pm

I just made the same 12 mile ride detailed in the above post, but at 14 to 15 MPH using Bafang assist level 4 and bike gear six instead of 4, with light to medium pedaling.

My surprise was that it only used 1.7 AH (86 WH). I expected a bigger difference at the increased speed. Next I'll have to try the ride at 20 MPH. This course is out and back, fairly flat, so downhill is also an uphill in the other direction and likewise any headwind becomes a tailwind in the opposite direction. There was about a 10 MPH breeze.
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

Warren   100 kW

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Warren » Jun 13 2015 4:13pm

I will bet 144 Wh, or more, for 12 miles at 20 mph. Let's see how close I am. :-)

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by kenkad » Jun 13 2015 8:52pm

Rassy,
LR has mentioned doing a trike mid-mount kit (or so I thought I understood). I am wondering if it might be worth while making a completely new rear wheel mount kit using a standard shock and a appropriately designed fork so that a mid-mount can drive the disc brake side of the rear hub. This leaves the derailleur side alone. I have wondered if Performer-TW would provide a Trike X frame without all that welded on rear wheel fork bracket (else just cut and grind off the current mount)? I would mount the motor so that the rear fork hinge acts as the jack shaft to get the appropriate gear reduction. There are some hefty rear MTB shock mounted forks that should be available and usable. The Trike X at $1650 may just be worth chancing this type of modification. Do you know the exact OD of the boom at the rear fork junction (measure in mm with a caliper?)? With some accurate dimensions I can try some 3D CAD layouts of such a modification.

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » Jun 13 2015 11:08pm

kenkad, I don't have any sort of caliper, so don't have any way to get any accurate measurements. You are aware that the boom is aluminum and bends upwards at that point to follow the contour of the seat? Also, there is no rear disk brake mount on the Trike-X, so a different rear hub would be required.

But aside from the above, I don't understand why you would want to do all that work to install a mid-drive that doesn't "go through the gears", which is the number one reason mid-drives are becoming so popular. Of course I understand you could retain your front triple chain wheel and the motor would not become unsprung weight, but a suitable rear hub motor would give basically the same performance and the need for so many pedaling gears seems to be questionable once you have an electric assist installed.

Anyway, all the above is just my humble opinion and I support and endorse any choices you make since we all have different skills, capabilities, goals, etc. With the little 500W 48V Bafang crank drive my Trike-X will quickly accelerate to 20+ MPH in 5th gear using the thumb throttle override and will climb a 20% grade in 1st gear without over heating.

Good luck with your project. :D
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by AF7JA » Jun 14 2015 12:13pm

I just wanted to say thanks for the report. I have a Performer Trike-e, which is, effectively, the same trike but without the rear suspension.

I have been considering putting an assist motor on it and am thinking of either the Bafang or the GNG.I really don't think boom flex will be much of the problem. At 5'6" I had to loosen the cruciform to even get to boom in far enough; so it is supported both by the boom bolts and the cruciform bolts.

I am particularly interested in power draw reports and I still haven't decided on a battery.

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » Jun 14 2015 12:48pm

AF7JA, If you want/need lots or power the GNG may work out okay, but I really like the little Bafang both for looks and weight. I'm sure either would work out for you, I'm 6'1" and there are no boom flex issues.

For batteries I've always been partial to Ping's LiFePO4, but I put together a little bike for my sister over a year ago and used BMS Battery's rack mounted unit. She really likes it and it seems to be lasting okay. She has to climb a fair amount of 20% grade on every ride. Since your trike doesn't have rear suspension this rack should be an easy install.

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/46 ... ttery.html
Attachments
Avalon and Bafang 001.JPG
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Rassy   1 MW

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » Jun 18 2015 1:23pm

Warren, your estimate was spot on. I had a chance to take the same ride I posted earlier, except at 20+ MPH. Because of other users on the path, lots of curves I wasn't comfortable with over 15 MPH, street underpasses, etc. a lot of time was spent getting back up to 20 MPH, which probably also consumed some extra energy compared to riding on a country road. Plus, I like running at lower speeds, but it's nice to know how the trike performs at 20+ MPH.

So for most of the 12 miles I was in 9th gear with assist level 9 on the Bafang and light pedaling. The Watts meter showed 3AH (154WH) used from the 48V 10AH Ping LiFeP04 battery. Because of the ramping built into the Bafang controller the maximum draw was 650W.
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » Dec 08 2017 1:51pm

Just a little update on my Performer Trike. Close to 3,000 miles now and still love riding it. Way more comfortable on longer rides than the other Delta or Tadpole trikes I've had.

Have it in the house for some new tires and general maintenance, (Oregon is mostly too cold and/or wet this time of year for an old guy that just rides for exercise and recreation). Something seemed to be amiss with the steering and I discovered the bolt that holds the right front wheel on had been lost! Just the brake caliper was preventing the wheel from falling off! I found a bolt and some washers to secure the wheel, but couldn't locate anywhere to purchase the special one peice bolt/washer made for the job so that nothing stuck out further at the widest point on the trike.

Contacted RBR Recumbent Cycles in Pennsylvania where I purchased the trike about 3 years ago and Rob is sending me the special bolt/washer peice at no charge even though I accepted responsibility for the loss by not checking often enough and keeping it tight. I call that great customer service after the sale!
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by EyeInHand » Sep 22 2018 12:22am

Hi Rassy, I bought a Trike-X a year and a half ago specifically to add a Bafang motor, and see you did exactly that. I came across this thread while looking for some info before ordering parts. Sounds like you're happy with the results. With vertical instead of standard horizontal handlebars, some of the controls require extra thought. What type of throttle did you use, and do you like it? Can't imagine how a thumb throttle would work without seeing one. Was thinking a half or full twist probably makes sense. Then there's also the power control switch that would usually be on the horizontal handlebar, too. Thoughts? I see you put the LCD on the fender bracket. I removed my fenders because the rattling was annoying, but still have the mounting brackets.

(Mine came from RBR, as well. Agreed, very nice folks to work with.)
Tadpole Trike with BBSHD and 52v battery pack.

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » Sep 22 2018 9:45am

Should update my posts a little, but just got home from a 10 day road trip (by car) with a couple buddies, have an out of town buddy showing up today for a few trike rides, squeezed in around my volunteer work at the cat shelter.

Anyway, I originally took my front fenders off for the same reason (noisy), but now I have my Bafang controls mounted on the boom right in front of me. Used a muffler clamp just the right size with a little protective tape or rubber, and not over tightened, with a piece of aluminum angle at the right height for the display unit and buttons. I'll post a picture in a few days when I get a little time.

I put the fenders back on. Was going to trim them back, but they ended up more secure this time so I have just left them.

Still find it tough to get the toe in just right, and also have a pesky wobble that only occurs if you remove your hands completely from the bars. Thinking about a damper, but not sure it is really necessary. This is apparently an issue on many tadpoles, but neither of my other tadpoles had the issue.

with the bafang, I seldom use my thumb throttle, but have it mounted on the left side, down low, and it is handy when I do want to use it.
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by chvidgov.bc.ca » Sep 22 2018 10:27pm

Rassy...regarding that wobble/shimmy you referred to...on my Actionbent trike I put a couple of suitably sized greased o-rings inside the headset caps on either side, which gave my steering/headsets enough "stiction" to remove the same shimmy I had on my Actionbent (Taiwanese trike like the Performers). This has held up as a solution for thousands of miles and I am comfortable with hands-free riding when desired.

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by EyeInHand » Sep 23 2018 11:38am

Thanks, looking forward to seeing new pix.

Rob at RBR tells me the reason they discontinued the Trike-X because it was hard for people to set up the steering. And the long wheelbase, while making a more comfortable ride, made it more tippy. They switched to direct steering and a shorter wheelbase with a JC model. It uses the suspension frame of the Trike-X and bolts on the front end of a JC.

I had a shimmy, too. Mostly at certain higher speeds on smooth ground. I thought all the steering linkages might add up to enough slop to cause it. Also noticed that with my weight in the bike there's some flex and the angle of the wheels changes slightly with me in it. The manual says to set the wheels parallel (when you obviously aren't sitting in the bike). But it seemed these factors might result in a "wheel out" toe-in when actually riding. That would be bad and maybe cause the problem. I put in about 1" of toe-in and the shimmy stopped. Very smooth now. One day when I feel like messing with it, will gradually reduce the toe-in to see where it starts.

edit: Reduced the toe-in to ½" and still no shimmy.
Last edited by EyeInHand on Sep 25 2018 10:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tadpole Trike with BBSHD and 52v battery pack.

Blog: http://www.eyeinhand.com/category/etrike/
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/eyeinhand2003

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by chvidgov.bc.ca » Sep 23 2018 9:48pm

My trike is happiest at exactly 1/16 inch of "toe in". I use an old rabbit ears type tv antenna (one of the extensible halves) to transfer the reading from the two front points of the two front tires to the two back points of the wheels, at the same height above the ground, to measure the exact difference that constitutes the toe-in/toe-out reading. I found Big Apples to be much "shimmier" than my current Maxxis Hookworm BMX tires that I prefer. 1 inch of toe-in seems rather extreme to me - doesn't that thrash your tire longevity massively?

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by EyeInHand » Sep 25 2018 10:07pm

I thought it would, that I would feel noticeable resistance, but did not. Probably because the street tires are narrow and, at high pressure, pretty hard, so very little road contact. I was getting far more resistance and wear with the wobble/shimmy. Whatever misalignment caused the wobble was also wearing out the tires and the bearings.

As noted in the edit to the earlier post, last weekend I reduced the toe-in from 1" to ½" and still no shimmy. I'll leave it there for a while. If that seems good, I'll see if I can take it down to ¼", but frankly I don't think measurements smaller than that will be accurate. Too many variables, and it changes when I sit in the seat.
Tadpole Trike with BBSHD and 52v battery pack.

Blog: http://www.eyeinhand.com/category/etrike/
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/eyeinhand2003

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by EyeInHand » Nov 03 2018 2:44pm

Just to follow up on the toe-in shimmy jitter. Turns out the problem was not the toe-in per se – that just helped mask it. The steering column of each front wheel was a tiny bit loose in the frame. Some spacer sleeves around the column have either worn, or were never tall enough, so no amount of torque on the screw cap would snug everything tight. I added a washer spacer temporarily, and now all the play in the front end is gone. With no weight in the bike, and ¼" toe-in, the shimmy is gone. I'll either cut a piece of pipe to make a taller spacer, or file down the top of the inner column 1/64" and do away with the washer.

The trike with a BBSHD now goes 40mph on flat ground on throttle alone.
Kingpost_7614.jpeg
Kingpost_7614.jpeg (130.37 KiB) Viewed 1212 times
Spacers_0689.jpeg
Spacers_0689.jpeg (82.84 KiB) Viewed 1212 times
TopCapColumn_7735.jpeg
TopCapColumn_7735.jpeg (80.66 KiB) Viewed 1212 times
Washer_4300.jpeg
Washer_4300.jpeg (64.42 KiB) Viewed 1212 times
Tadpole Trike with BBSHD and 52v battery pack.

Blog: http://www.eyeinhand.com/category/etrike/
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/eyeinhand2003

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by Rassy » Nov 03 2018 7:15pm

Nice find. I guess it sort of does what the "O" ring solution does. Been too busy with other projects to spend any time working on the trike, but am anxious to "eliminate" the shimmy and will try one of these fixes soon. Thanks. :D
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Re: Performer Trike-X, Bafang BBS02

Post by EyeInHand » Nov 03 2018 11:29pm

Possibly like the "O" rings, with no pictures it's hard to tell. But the area of interest is certainly the same. For me it was specific to the screw caps on the post. They are intended to push the spacer rings down and pull the inner post up. That only happens if the cap can actually move – if it contacts the inner post first, it can't exert pressure on the spacer rings, so the bearings are loose. On a conventional bike you have a ring nut on the steering column to snug it into the frame. Seems like this would be better with the same design.
Tadpole Trike with BBSHD and 52v battery pack.

Blog: http://www.eyeinhand.com/category/etrike/
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/eyeinhand2003

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