Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
jonnydrive   100 W

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Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Sep 27 2015 1:11am

With some precautions it is possible bring cyclone 1680w@48V motor successfully up to 2100w@60v nominal without engine modification (aka air forced cooling system).

After about 2500km of riding, I have decided to post my experience for anyone is interested to put more juice from this engine.

Before all this is my final build:

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I haven’t used professional tools (milling machine, router cnc, custom build, etc) and no advanced skills were requested to build this bike.

Thanks to my improvement to engine and to the transmission, I am able to ride my e-fatbike to work every day (25 km flat @50km/h) and, during the weekends, ride on mountain trails or off-road basically without slope limits.

When you put more voltage on this engine you need to consider:
- The weakness that came from a cheap motor kit
- The problem that came when you put a lot of power on a bike not build for that (overheating and transmission problems)


Weakness came from cheap motor kit
Cyclone 1680w engine came with mounting brackets in ergal, very light but not strong enough!

Image


If you put enough power on the engine, the brackets flex under the engine torque causing the engine chain spill out from the cog on crankset (terrible situation).
To make things worse, the only way to fix engine at the opposite side of the cog (see the picture below) is with steel clamp holding the left bracket …..no way that it works with the desired power!

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So, how can I solve this problem without replacing brackets?

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By fixing directly the left bracket on the bike frame with stainless steal collar (sorry my English sucks! but a picture is worth a 1000 words! see the picture below)

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By fixing bracket on the frame (asymmetrical installation) you can compensate torque force enough to keep the engine chain in the correct position during full throttle acceleration.

To do that you can simply drill two holes in the left bracket. I suggest you to assembly the engine on the bike frame using the right bracket, once engine is in position you can take precise measurements for the holes.

Suggestion: use nuts for adjust left bracket parallel to the frame

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Mount left bracket after made holes (try to keep holes soon as possible to the engine

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You can Bend the holed part of the bracket, nomore used, around the frame or simply cut it off.

In the other side (right bracket) the engine is mounted as Cyclone suggested, the braket is fixed on bottom brackets

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After have applied this fix no anymore chain slip (even when the slope gets slip rubber on the stone.

Beneficts by putting the engine in the triangle
- Engine is more protected from any kind of fall (I do a lot of them)
- The bike is able to face obstacles as rocks or tree trunks without the risk to hit the engine (44t cog is the lowest component of the bike (it is quite strong and you can fix it with some hammer blow)
- Bike frame prevent to hit the engine from rocks coming from the front wheel
- Better locking with the frame
- It looks better
- It is cool, I never see kit with engine in the bike frame

Cons: forget if you have rear suspension or small form triangle because you are unable to locate engine close enough to the bottom bracket, remember I still using the right bracket of the engine kit to fix the engine to the frame using the bottom bracket.


Keeping front derailleurs with engine in the triangle frame

When you put the engine in the frame, the engine chain obstacles front derailleurs. The only way I found is to move front derailleur outside the chain area.
I do it quite simply using alloy stick

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Overheating problem
After many tries, I figured that you have overheating problem if you run the engine using the incorrect gear (maybe you haven’t the correct one!).

The only way to avoid overheating, that is a very common problem for this engine (even without power upgrade), is to use the engine at elevated speeds. Thanks to Endless Sphere I learned that more fast engine spin less heat is made (it something related to the current impulse), it works!

Make some calculation:
Engine specification from Cyclone website are “Electric Motor kit 1680 Watt 48Vup to 60Nm, speed 4500rpm” and they realized this graph (handworking?)

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If my readings are correct, to have maximum torque the engine must run at 1000 rpm and to have the maximum efficiency (EFF) is @ 3000 rpm.

The gear reduction is about 1:30. Then, if the engine spin at 3000rpm, the pedaling cadence is about 100rpm (3000rpm /9.33 primary gear reduction/3.15 secondary reduction). For humans is quite hard keep 100 pedaling rate per minute. At upper speed it became

Bottom Line: if you want to run your engine at the optimal speed forget to follow the engine by pedaling!

How I can manage that?
It is quite simple, going on flat I love pedaling. I use engine at not-best performance (cadence at the crank set about 60 rpm)
On mountain, I would like to use it near to maximum speed 4500+ rpm (good torque and good EFF), simply pedaling is impossible.

Configure the correct gear to avoid overheating
The easy way: put throttle to the maximum, if the engine speed increase slowly you must change gear to the light one.

To avoid overheating you need to change your riding stile, the throttle must be always near to the maximum (full gas) and you can regulate the bike speed you want by using the bike gears.

Cyclone kit with 3ps chainwhell came with 444432 3pcs chainwheel crank set

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The overheating problem came on long slopes, after a while engine stop spinning and became very hot.
It is because engine strive al low rpm unable to reach optimum speed. The only way to avoid overheating is to reduce gear to reduce engine strive and reach the correct engine spin.

Unfortunately neither with 32t front and 36t rear gear I can reach optimum engine spin, so can we do?

Option 1:

Put 22t cog on crankset in place of 32t. It is not easy, bolts for 32t cog are 104mm, you can not use them to fix 22t on crankest. The only way is to use the freewheel bolts and by cyclone 22t cog as in the picture below.

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Simply Replacing the original bolts with the longest one you can fix 22t cog on crankset.
I have tried this way unsuccessfully because the torque applied on the cogs yield the bolts

Option 2:
Increase sprockets cassette with mega range @ > 40t

I have tried this piece of crap:

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The engine torque caused the slip of the cog (made in shitty alloy) over freewheel hub of my rear wheel.

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I am putting to much torque on small part of the all hub freewheel

The final solution came with this nice of handworking stainless steel adaptor by from eBay

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40t 42t sprocket/cassette/chainring adaptor/expander MTB 7/8/9 speed. I put on the adaptor the 44t 104mm cog (my deore long cage derailleur liked it)
To avoid cog slip I also fixed my sprocket cassette with the sprocket adaptor with two bolts to distribute torque generated by the engine on the entire hub freewheel.
The result is: no more overheating and incredible climbing hill ability. My fatbike wheel loose traction on rocks before enging stop spinning.

I hope that this post can help someone resolving problem that cause me some brain frocking storming.
I believe that cyclone kit have an incredible powerful engine, maybe rude (AFT, Big Block, Astro building is upper level) maybe noisy, but when you ride your fatbike build with less than 1500 euros up hill overtaking commercial expensive ebike with expensive engine in expensive suite…any trouble is worth!
Last edited by jonnydrive on Nov 30 2015 1:34am, edited 2 times in total.

Nathan   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Nathan » Sep 27 2015 5:07am

wow awesome stuff 2100w at 60v ! yes this motor is very powerful and light !

what type of battery do you use and controller to handle 60v ?

Also I can't see if your motor freewheel but the easiest way to lower the peddle cadence is like AFT have done and use a 13T motor and 48T cranks = 3.6 *9.33=34 reduction crank chainwheel instead of the standard 14T and 44= 3.14 = 29 reduction. = 15% reduction in cadence , and then also as you did increase the size of the rear chainwheel.

Also one other option is to use a Sine wave controller I think AFT has on their and option for a sine wave Kelly and they should have higher torque and higher efficiency at lower RPM .

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Sep 28 2015 1:55am

Thanks Nathan, you are right!

For anyone who want to buy a new Cyclone kit, I suggest to ask to the seller for 48 48 32t 3pcs freewheel cranckset instead of the standard 44t. It is the first step to reach a good peddle cadence.

For the motor freewheel I am going to check if it is possible and cheap replace the 14t motor freewheel with a small one.

The controller that came with Cyclone 1680w is able to manage 60 volt nominal without any problems (if I don't remember wrong, capacitor are 80V). Unfortunately the controller in the Cyclone kit is NOT Kelly controller, but a cheaper one and without any programming capabilities :-(

I make the battery pack with HobbyKing Lipo Batteries 16s2p managed a BMS bought from batterysupports.com (is the "60V 67.2V 16S 60A 16x 3.6V Lithium ion Li-ion Li-Po Battery BMS")

LiPo batteries are Turnigy 5000mah 20C (they became little warm only after strong trail)

here the assembly:
2 parallel 4 cells in series with
2 parallel 6 cells in series with
2 parallel 6 cells
Image

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Oct 05 2015 10:14am

A look inside Cyclone Controller.

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cheekybloke   1 kW

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by cheekybloke » Oct 05 2015 10:39am

I run my AFT version at 50v and 50A (2500w)
Done 6500 miles and never had it overheat once, i do have the large cooling fins and live in the U.K where its not really warm much.
Darren

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Oct 06 2015 5:28am

Cheekyblock,
AFT kit have a lot of upgrade and cost more than double of a simple Cyclone kit!

I think they made some optimization in addition to the large cooling fins and also the controller matters.
Overheating is also related to the bike and the riding style, on my previous bike Cyclone engine never overheated

Image

I have experimented Overheating on summer (about 30 Celsius degree) during hard slope or on flat (amount 35+ Celsius degree) run at maximum speed with the wrong gear (about 55/60 Km/h)

The purpose of my post is to provide some suggestion to consider only "if" overheating happens. :wink:

Just2807   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Just2807 » Nov 18 2015 3:37am

Mr Italiano, nice write up. This actually answered ALOT of my questions. We have similar terrain too (i am from Croatia), how long did u go up on hills? Can i go a bit harder uphill for a while without any problems?
Let me give u the picture :D
http://www.villa-tamara.com/wp-content/ ... orama1.jpg
See this yellow snake going up? :D About 6-7 km from sea to top, around 500m elevation.
Last edited by Just2807 on Nov 18 2015 11:32am, edited 1 time in total.

Speady   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Speady » Nov 18 2015 5:40am

Hi Jonnydrive,

Great build, I like the cooling fins you attached onto the engine. Where did you get them from. No way you bent some CPU Coolers, I tried that before. :D
Would like to take a closer look at these.
Need to get rid of waste heat too. Have a Bafang BBS02 middrive and steep terrain as well. Live on a volcanic island. Canaries.
Greetings.

Just2807   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Just2807 » Nov 18 2015 11:36am

Yeah i agree with Speady, it would be wonderful if u could get some close-up pictures with everything in place, casette, motor.... :D
Also, did u use 22T and 40+T both or u just picked 1 of them? How much wheel size would affect if i go smaller wheel?

Just2807   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Just2807 » Nov 21 2015 6:51am

Speady wrote:Hi Jonnydrive,

Great build, I like the cooling fins you attached onto the engine. Where did you get them from. No way you bent some CPU Coolers, I tried that before. :D
Would like to take a closer look at these.
Need to get rid of waste heat too. Have a Bafang BBS02 middrive and steep terrain as well. Live on a volcanic island. Canaries.
Greetings.
I think Cyclone offered them optional.

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 24 2015 2:46pm

Speady wrote:Hi Jonnydrive,

Great build, I like the cooling fins you attached onto the engine. Where did you get them from. No way you bent some CPU Coolers, I tried that before. :D
Would like to take a closer look at these.
Need to get rid of waste heat too. Have a Bafang BBS02 middrive and steep terrain as well. Live on a volcanic island. Canaries.
Greetings.
Dear Speady,
the fins came from Cyclone, you can find in this link http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-parts.htm with this descritpion: "18 pcs 3 mm thick 20mm high big cooling fins"

The fins are small pieces of alloy, they are fixed around the motor with a steel clamp.
This passive heating system works only if the fins are in perfect contact with the surface of the motor. So, check your engine surface, if it is smooth, the fins may works well on your engine.
You can use thermal paste that came from personal computer sink to improve the cooling performance.

Do not expect you high cooling performance came from this upgrade, the engine still hot but maybe it doesn't overheat.
In addition you can use a big granny gear in the rear wheel.

Soon I post some detailed picture, if they can help.

have a good ride!

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 24 2015 3:02pm

Just2807 wrote:Mr Italiano, nice write up. This actually answered ALOT of my questions. We have similar terrain too (i am from Croatia), how long did u go up on hills? Can i go a bit harder uphill for a while without any problems?
Let me give u the picture :D
http://www.villa-tamara.com/wp-content/ ... orama1.jpg
See this yellow snake going up? :D About 6-7 km from sea to top, around 500m elevation.
I think that the snake wont be a problem!
With my bike I can run about 500m of elevation on 5km length street @ 20km/h with my small battery pack (5Amp @ 44Volt build with 2x6cells Hobby King Lipo battery)

After the street end and the small battery is fully drained, I plug the performance battery pack (the one in the pictures above in the post) for the off-road fun.

Total max elevation 1200mt for about 2 hours of hard ride.

If you want more speed or more power I suggest you to check this post, we discuss about Cyclone 1800-3000W and GNG 2500W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... it=cyclone

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 24 2015 4:12pm

Hello guys,

during this year I ride a lot, both on street, going everyday to work, and on off-road path.
Off-road ride on mountain requires strong components but also light (sometime I manually pushed my bike over a 2mt vertical rocks, tree trunks obstructing the path, fences or small rivers, everytime I push my bike on the roof of the car).

Lesson Learned:
- small engines are better
- forget rear hub engine (too much weigh, to much electricity waste, low torque)
- bike gears are fundamental both for speed and for torque
- bike gears can manage 2kwatt+ with small upgrade and a lot of consumption so frequent maintenance is required
- ALWAYS bring with you a spare transmission chain (and some tools)

As you can see I haven't taken care of the design of my bike but only focused on the technical improvements.

The main weakness to take care of:
- front fork, suspension fork is better. For fatbike I have considered rockshocx bluto, but... too much expensive 500+euros
- rear sprocket cassette
- original engine support to the bike (Cyclone brackets flex)
- chain slip of the cogs
- engine overheating

Here my actual configuration:
Crankset:
- Cyclone crank arm
- ACS Crossfire Freewheel (also Cyclone Freewheel is good)
- 48t alloy cog for engine transmission (steel is better)
- 44t/32t cogs for drivetrain (22t is difficult to fix on cyclone crankset, see posts above for more details)

Rear Sprocket cassette
- 14-44t ( Front 44t/rear 14t about 60km/h on flat with good standing start performance || Front 32t/rear 40t about 250 N/m on rear hub)
- All sprocket cogs are fixed together with additional bolts for manage torque on rear hub
- KMC Chain X9e build for e-Bikes

Engine
- 13T heavy duty freewheel
- Cooling Fins
- Creative use of Cyclone engine brackets
- Chain guide for avoid chain slip ( engine brackets flex under heavy load) directly fixed on the engine

Controller
- standard 36-72v 40a Cyclone controller (programmable Kelly controller or cycle analyst may be better choice but they are more expensive)

Battery
- BMS 60V 67.2V 16S 60A
- 16s2p turnigy LiPo 5A 20C
- XLR 3 pole connector

Frame
- Bottecchia 140 fat bike (cheap but quite strong, decent frame, decent wheel, terrible breaks)

a lot of pics are coming....stay tuned

;-)


next upgrade scheduled:
- custom alloy brakets for the engine
- easy-removable battery box
Last edited by jonnydrive on Nov 30 2015 1:40am, edited 1 time in total.

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 25 2015 8:01am

Engine cooling fins pics

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Just2807   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Just2807 » Nov 27 2015 10:22am

Thx a lot johhny for pics and info.
Really want climbing ability more than top speed (60 km/h is more then i thought it was possible on this setup and i certanly won't cry)

If u don't mind, i will copy your setup regarding engine position and front drivetrain.
I plan to fuel it with 48V/20Ah pouch (they might be free) or go shopping Headway 48V/15Ah. 60 Amp controller is obviously enough and new 1.8-3Kw Cyclone.

U got maybe experience with Shimano's back cassette? (11 speed 11-42) Kinda worried it won't take that much torque and i was thinking about upgrading in near future since i want singlespeed (front 32-36, will test this) frontchain :\ But i will be very happy with "stock" transmission going up with no peddaling :D

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 27 2015 6:19pm

Hi just2807,
Please, be free to copy all you need from my post ;-)

If you will be able to strongly fix the Cyclone motor on your frame, you are going to have a lot of fun!
The new Cyclone 1800-3000w may fix some overheating problems came with the smaller version @1680w without transmission upgrade.

May I suggest to Check your Shimano cassette: if cogs are fixed each other in one block (except for the smaller ones), I think that the cassette will be able to manage the torque without problem.

Tips:
If you want use the Cyclone brackets to fix the engine inside the bike frame, you may face a problem with small triangle frame bike or small size bike. It is because the agle between the seat tube and the oblique tube is very small and require to put the engine more distant than the cyclone bracket can manage.

If you need some detailed pictures or measuremens please ask me.

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by k-harvey » Nov 27 2015 7:07pm

I recently proved the 650 w on 24v is not a good buy as if your battery gets older the volage drop is greater & the LVC on controller turns off
i had to buy a Edward Lyen one for my 24v older battery.----Have never had a problem with fixing & had the motors in all sorts of places mostly by using soft AL right around frame. The up to 3000 w motor is interesting bit more expenive than the 1000w Bafang.

Just2807   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Just2807 » Nov 28 2015 12:48am

k-harvey wrote: The up to 3000 w motor is interesting bit more expenive than the 1000w Bafang.
A bit more expensive yeah, but waterproof, more silent if they don't bulls*it and i will be rarely using full 3kW (u can see johnny got his overvolted with no problems) so i assume i wont be having heat dumping problems and i do plannjing to spin it at max efficiency.
jonnydrive wrote: If you will be able to strongly fix the Cyclone motor on your frame, you are going to have a lot of fun!

May I suggest to Check your Shimano cassette: if cogs are fixed each other in one block (except for the smaller ones), I think that the cassette will be able to manage the torque without problem.

Tips:
If you want use the Cyclone brackets to fix the engine inside the bike frame, you may face a problem with small triangle frame bike or small size bike. It is because the agle between the seat tube and the oblique tube is very small and require to put the engine more distant than the cyclone bracket can manage.

If you need some detailed pictures or measuremens please ask me.
Thx for the offer but on their site says 1.8+ kW is a bit larger and can't find specific measurements. Really messy site.
My current Centurion Bock 2 has kinda smaller frame (stock teeth on it, will check that in due time) but i have Bottecchi frame optional. Very similar to your old Specialized so it should fit with no problems.

Would like to fit it on Centurion since it's a lot more agile frame and i am not much tall with medium legs.

No problems in fitting it on bottom, it's not a must have, but i got big aluminum plate with zillion of holes and an idea for a frame box so it would be nice if it would fit.
Regarding brackets, got 3kW laser at work, can machine it better than Cyclone :D

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 28 2015 2:05am

k-harvey wrote:I recently proved the 650 w on 24v is not a good buy as if your battery gets older the volage drop is greater & the LVC on controller turns off
i had to buy a Edward Lyen one for my 24v older battery.----Have never had a problem with fixing & had the motors in all sorts of places mostly by using soft AL right around frame. The up to 3000 w motor is interesting bit more expenive than the 1000w Bafang.

Hi k-harvey, Cyclone controller for 1680w don't have embedded LVC. I had to connect a Battery Management System directly on battery pack (on black/negative wire). In my experience Controller cut the power only if overheating comes.

The maximum voltage drop I saw on my bike is around 2volt. When the battery is low (less then 60v) at full trottle the BMS cut the power.
For Lipo 16 cells in parallel a good voltage range is 66.6v - 58v

I read that Cycle Analyst 3 can manage this issue limiting the trottle to avoid the cut-off.

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 28 2015 2:18am

Just2807 wrote: No problems in fitting it on bottom, it's not a must have, but i got big aluminum plate with zillion of holes and an idea for a frame box so it would be nice if it would fit.
Regarding brackets, got 3kW laser at work, can machine it better than Cyclone :D
Also I am working on a good replacement for Cyclone brackets, I have a 6mm thick alluminium plate.
My concern is how to fix the plate on the frame (drilling holes is not a good idea) and I want to avoid to use the bottom bracket for fix the plate ( with this engine chain allignment is not perfect)

Unfortunatly with my welding Hobby-and-low-cost machine I am unable to weld alluminium. I am trying to find a good solution for fixing engine to the frame.

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 28 2015 2:46am

Just2807 wrote: I plan to fuel it with 48V/20Ah pouch (they might be free) or go shopping Headway 48V/15Ah.
If you need to buy a battery pack, consider the one near to the hightest voltage supported by the controller.
Cyclone 36-72volt(nominal) controller can manage up to 18s lipo.

48volt x 20ampere is about 1kwatt of juice, the same having 66v nominal 18s LiPo pack with 15ah.
With the same juice you can have more instant Watt power with the same engine amperage.

It will be essential if you are to plan to singelspeed your bike.

Electric engine can easly better manage the increase of wattage insted of the increase of amperage.

...and the power is never enough! :x

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Nathan » Nov 28 2015 6:36pm

Unread postby cheekybloke » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:39 am

I run my AFT version at 50v and 50A (2500w)
Done 6500 miles and never had it overheat once, i do have the large cooling fins and live in the U.K where its not really warm much.
Darren
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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating
Unread postby jonnydrive » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:28 am

Cheekyblock,
AFT kit have a lot of upgrade and cost more than double of a simple Cyclone kit!
Cheecky bloke has done 6500 miles at 2.5kw with no problems wowwww that has to be one of the most reliable highpower kits out their. The cyclone kit is half the price because its a piece of junk compared to the AFT 1680w. its well know they work well for a short time but it will wear out and have problems very quickly at that power level. The AFT has ceramic bearings and hardened gears in a oil bath so they use less power and will last heaps longer then the cyclone crap. Also it has Wipperman chain is the best that exists so it will last a long longer. The cyclone kit has cheap controller whereas the AFT has the smaller lighter and programmable kelly which is also a torque throttle. And then you have the weak and flimsy cyclone brackets that you needed to modify....

These and other reasons mentioned below in this power its the highest quality mid drive out. The LR kit does't even come with instructions or a controller as part of the kit :P

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=74343

Just2807   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Just2807 » Nov 29 2015 9:25am

Isn't everything a piece of junk if u don't take care of it? ATF is a piece of junk in compare of a costume mid drive i have in mind, and it would cost over 5k € with no batteries. Don't ask.

U get what u pay for, it's not like everyone can afford whatever they like or expecting something to last forever at "discount" prices.
Yeah, best would be to shoot out 100 bucks and get 15kW mid drive which will last for 50 years on 50 € bike with no suspension.

In my example, i will build bike in (at least) 6 month period because i am not a rich guy and want some fun at affordable price which is obviously possible reading on this forum. Hell with it, if i manage to fix "permanently" engine brackets, i'll even send to johhny couple of them for free because he gave valuable, helpfull info and i respect that.

Johnny explained me (and anyone interested) gearing ratios and performance in the setup with some technical info which i finally understood without using tons of equazions and brainstorming all the way till the eternity.

Open your own topic and compare/shit/praise there whatever u like.
jonnydrive wrote:
Also I am working on a good replacement for Cyclone brackets, I have a 6mm thick alluminium plate.
My concern is how to fix the plate on the frame (drilling holes is not a good idea) and I want to avoid to use the bottom bracket for fix the plate ( with this engine chain allignment is not perfect)

Unfortunatly with my welding Hobby-and-low-cost machine I am unable to weld alluminium. I am trying to find a good solution for fixing engine to the frame.
Yeah alluminium sux for welding.

I talked to a guy at work, some time ago, they have been cutting some 3-4 mm (not sure) black steel holders for a "mini" crane almost at the top of the wind turbines (for servicing purposes), i didn't get any technical info on paper but from his remembering, he says they could hold 150 kg of lifting each. Design was similar to brackets from Cyclone but the "top" connection (where u used that steel part) was something like rounded clamp. Diameter for connecting was around 30 mm so it could be used for fixing it on the lower bike frame. Ill try to draw it, it sound very confusing, but if it could work, i could try to machine it.

This is a disaster but roughly this is the principle. Only 1 "halfclamp", not 2 and this 2 holes on the side were on the outside fixed to clamp, no holes the tubing, this is something i found fast.
http://prntscr.com/98b59t
No drilling, wires are free. Could it work?

jonnydrive   100 W

100 W
Posts: 161
Joined: May 11 2015 7:16am
Location: Italy

Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 29 2015 12:29pm

Nathan wrote:
Cheecky bloke has done 6500 miles at 2.5kw with no problems wowwww that has to be one of the most reliable highpower kits out their. The cyclone kit is half the price because its a piece of junk compared to the AFT 1680w.
After 3500/4000 km of ride almost overvolted, today I checked the planetary "crappy" gearbox of my Cyclone engine.

The gears still in very good condition, I simply cleaned up the gear and replaced the greease with the new one. I think that they will work for at least another 2500km without need the substitution.

Also the ball bearings are in good condition, the rotation is smooth and accurate.

Tips:
There is a reason why the planetary gears are less strong then the shaft, it is because is more easy change this instead of the shaft!

The shaft
Image
The gearbox
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The cleaning
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The comparison new vs used
Image
Image
Image

jonnydrive   100 W

100 W
Posts: 161
Joined: May 11 2015 7:16am
Location: Italy

Re: Cyclone 480W-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 29 2015 1:53pm

Just2807 wrote: Johnny explained me (and anyone interested) gearing ratios and performance in the setup with some technical info which i finally understood without using tons of equazions and brainstorming all the way till the eternity.
Ooookey.
If you want to know the speed, you need to identify the cadence, that is the number of rotation of the crankset (rpm = round per minute).

Cadence = <Engine Speed under load> x <Total reduction Ratio>
Cadence = <70% of Engine Speed declared> x <Gearbox Reduction x Engine Freewheel/engine cog>

For example in my case:
“Electric Motor kit 1680 Watt 48V up to 60Nm, speed 4500rpm”

The values:
- Engine Speed declared= 4500rpm
- Engine Speed under load = 3150rpm
- Gearbox = 1/10 (from Cyclone datasheet, for Cyclone 3k I thing 1/6)
- Engine Freewheel = 13t (Standard Cyclone is 14t)
- Engine Cog = 48t (Standard Cyclone is 44t)

Cadence = 3150rpm x (1/10) x (13/48) = 85 rpm

For 1800-3000W
"Cyclone 1800-3000W 36-72V 100Nm 100Km/h 600-1000rpm"

The values:
Here is the messy point....MY GUESS is that 1000rpm is not the Engine Speed but the Engine Freewheel Speed
IF it is true
Cadence (@72Volt) = 1000rpm x 70% x (14/44) = 198 rpm WTF!!!!!
Cadence (@48Volt) = 700rpm x 70% x (14/44) = 155 rpm

Note:
Normal people have pedaling cadence from 60 to 90 rpm

Once you had the Candence evaulate speed is quite easy, we can use this calculator http://www.machars.net/bikecalc.htm.

In my case (fat bike has 30inc wheel)
Image

At full speed yesterday I reach 54km/h it is because the engine overvolted speen faster then 4500rpm.

Note about the torque:
there is NO WAY that my engine put 60N/m @4500, my gess is that engine put 6N/m, considering the reduction 10:1 in the gearbox, at the Engine Freewheel We have 60N/m (like a Ford Fiesta).

For Cyclone 3k 100N/m is at the Engine FreeWheel.
Last edited by jonnydrive on Nov 30 2015 1:22am, edited 1 time in total.

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