In the photo you have the teeth are very worn out and pointy compared to new, they have also lost their ramp on the tooth profile hence i imagine it would be very noisy now and not much life left in them, if you had run them in an oil bath like AFT they would have lasted a lot longer. Also all those wear filings have being going into the steel bearings so they would have some consequential wear on them also compared to the AFT where they put magnets to suck up the fillings from the oil to stop going to the harder ceramic bearings they would have lasted longer as well. And yes you get what you pay for as you said and thats cheap wont last long.... .
Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating
- Thread starter jonnydrive
- Start date
In the photo you have the teeth are very worn out and pointy compared to new, they have also lost their ramp on the tooth profile hence i imagine it would be very noisy now and not much life left in them, if you had run them in an oil bath like AFT they would have lasted a lot longer. Also all those wear filings have being going into the steel bearings so they would have some consequential wear on them also compared to the AFT where they put magnets to suck up the fillings from the oil to stop going to the harder ceramic bearings they would have lasted longer as well. And yes you get what you pay for as you said and thats cheap wont last long.... .
jonnydrive
100 W
Just2807 said:
Just, I lost you, but I love the idea of use pieces of wind turbine! :lol:
IF I correctly understand, you want to fix the engine only to the lower bike tube. This option is very clean and can be very good looking but require a very strong bracket. 100N/m of Torque means a lot of force on the brakets.
If you use the steel bracket welding is quite simple. Looking at your pictures I'am tiring to figure it out how can you fix the engine on the end of the red (pictured) plate. The engine requires 4 6mm bolts (Cyclone bracket use only 2 of them and it inevitably flex under the torque)
My first attempt (and terrible-looking) for upgrading Cyclone bracket to someting strong is to build only one bracket fixed in tree point: bottom bracket, vertical frame tube and oblique frame.
I build some rudimental CAD design, here some pictures
Today I cut and drilled a 20x30cm aluminium 6cm plate. The following are the result, I used only a drill and a saw with blade for aluminium ( working aluminium with correct tools is quite similar to work strong wood).
As you can see in the following pictures, it is only a concept but can be a starting point to made something better!
The problem is fixing the bracket on the bike frame, without drilling holes on bike, maybe the halfclamp can help.
I used only stainless steal or aluminium.
I cut 2 holes on the plate 35 mm for bottom bracket and 50 mm for engine. I could have cut the plate about 2 cm under the bottom bracket hole, but I preferred to kept it to provide a strong protection for the crankset.
It appended twice that I have hitted the crankset with rocks bending the engine cog, I had to use a rock as hammer to straighten the cog (MacGyver sucks!)
After fixing the plate on the frame, the engine on the plate and the crankset on the bike, I rest....
Yes i kinda messed up the "painting".
Yeah, i tried to avoid brackets somehow with just that little thing direct with the motor but it's very tricky.
Was thinking about that steel part and brackets combo, where rounded half clamp would resist the horizontal force (resist motor to make an angle with torque applied) and "regular" brackets connecting motor and that part, some kind of modification.
Since i don't have bracket and motor in front of me, i can't see would it be possible so its just a theory. But if that thing could be somehow connected to motor/brackets, it would take most load off the brackets, on to the bottom part of the frame.
It's just an idea.
That costume plate should work 200 times better in my opinion. That extra plate space could be used to hide lipo's or controller
Can't wait to play with that thing!
Yeah, i tried to avoid brackets somehow with just that little thing direct with the motor but it's very tricky.
Was thinking about that steel part and brackets combo, where rounded half clamp would resist the horizontal force (resist motor to make an angle with torque applied) and "regular" brackets connecting motor and that part, some kind of modification.
Since i don't have bracket and motor in front of me, i can't see would it be possible so its just a theory. But if that thing could be somehow connected to motor/brackets, it would take most load off the brackets, on to the bottom part of the frame.
It's just an idea.
That costume plate should work 200 times better in my opinion. That extra plate space could be used to hide lipo's or controller
Can't wait to play with that thing!
The price of the AFT used to be a lot more but the AUD has dropped a like 40% vs USD last few years and i just noticed they have 20% off now!
The simple cyclone kit is a cheap solution that suits occasional low power use, like others have said you get what you pay for. For higher power and longevity you'd want a better, tested solution like hardened gears and oil bath lubrication, as well as better cooling....
jonnydrive
100 W
Nathan said:
Hi Nathan, I will try to use this gears until the end (after that we will known how long they last).
When I will replace gears I want to convert it in an oil bath gearbox. A Guy in this forum do it simply sealing the gearbox with a specific tube silant.
checking the rubber seals of the engine shaft and the gearbox axale, the seems already oil proof.
Regarding ceramic bearings, I think that they are completely useless. Any 2 or 4 strokes engine work with standard stainless steal bearings, also in my 30 years old Fantic trial I never need to replace the stainless bearings!
AFK is high end and very expensive, so they need to justify the price putting expensive-not-always-needed components.
They also have a lot of good idea, but here I am not building a space-shuttle!
jonnydrive
100 W
Here when gears must be changed! around 12000km of riding.....
pict from post https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=54907
pict from post https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=54907
jonnydrive
100 W
Just2807 said:Yes i kinda messed up the "painting".
Yeah, i tried to avoid brackets somehow with just that little thing direct with the motor but it's very tricky.
Was thinking about that steel part and brackets combo, where rounded half clamp would resist the horizontal force (resist motor to make an angle with torque applied) and "regular" brackets connecting motor and that part, some kind of modification.
Since i don't have bracket and motor in front of me, i can't see would it be possible so its just a theory. But if that thing could be somehow connected to motor/brackets, it would take most load off the brackets, on to the bottom part of the frame.
It's just an idea.
That costume plate should work 200 times better in my opinion. That extra plate space could be used to hide lipo's or controller
Can't wait to play with that thing!
Just, what about something like these pictures but on the upper side of the bike frame tube? The clamp to fix the engine on the tube are terrible, the half-clamp still the most elegant solution I can find!
Pics from this post https://endless-sphere.com/forums/v...p=542227&hilit=gearbox+oil+conversion#p542227
aCeMadMod
1 kW
hi i try Not to Reply about cyclone aft or headline ego kits . chats they are so many much it same info but have to reply to missleading info you try to start .. that motor will Not last ... your fixs you are cheap. and that about it.if you going Too really fix the motor water cooled stage 5 or fan cooled it get it stage 4 . and Do the job Whole right you will not buy other kit. So many try to save been cheapskates / it dose not work out .and i replace all my motors bearings with ceramic bearing only ones are really costly are 2 main big bearing one for 20mm shaft .. and oil seals 2 lips is mod you have do you self you can't buy them , and aft Dose not Heat Treat Processes for sun Gears. last time i talk with them. i try to get to them to make better sun gears. they did not care. and only get stage 3
thank you crazy rus tank driver alot real life power and mod the info . about heat
mod for cyclone thank for all es for info. but my hat go off the rus crazy tank driver. for kill a few motors to find the limits. i sill add a few thing the rus dude did not do to his mods.
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=68648
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=56666&p=881302#p881302 5000 watt
and Yes the Heat Treat sun Gears make huge help i pull apart my gearbox last nite, i was shock you not much wear after 2000km and right up world cup downhill tracks the magnet trap did it job it new oil and mix high moller additive if your fat bike can climb world cup track at 20 km or faster and not stoping for 4 kms or longer in plus 35 deg day time heat . i eat my pants .
happy to send a pic of it
upgrade all the bike parts it last very long time.
your not able to do it your self buy http://www.tangentmotors.com the kit . it kick cyclone ass very well made and i own 7 cyclone motors kits . i not any thing to again i will add this info my page has well.thank you
and only get stage 3
thank you crazy rus tank driver alot real life power and mod the info . about heat
mod for cyclone thank for all es for info. but my hat go off the rus crazy tank driver. for kill a few motors to find the limits. i sill add a few thing the rus dude did not do to his mods.viewtopic.php?f=28&t=68648
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=56666&p=881302#p881302 5000 watt
and Yes the Heat Treat sun Gears make huge help i pull apart my gearbox last nite, i was shock you not much wear after 2000km and right up world cup downhill tracks the magnet trap did it job it new oil and mix high moller additive if your fat bike can climb world cup track at 20 km or faster and not stoping for 4 kms or longer in plus 35 deg day time heat . i eat my pants .
happy to send a pic of it upgrade all the bike parts it last very long time.
your not able to do it your self buy http://www.tangentmotors.com the kit . it kick cyclone ass very well made and i own 7 cyclone motors kits . i not any thing to again i will add this info my page has well.thank you
jonnydrive said:
Yeah, it seems only way to fix it is to machine more efficient "mini frame" for the motor :\
When i get motor in my hands, i will definitely try to think of something. A mini mini mini clamp-motor connector or something.
Regarding kit stamina, i don't think i will waste it in a year or 2, since it will be weekend/vacation bike and not on daily basis.... If i could get 10k km, it should last me for at least 3-4 years minimum, and by that time, kit's will be far more better at the possibly same price as they are now. Maybe Cyclone will change bracket design by then or some1 will steal best parts of every kit and sell it as 1 perfect kit
So, 300 € for every 3 years just for my selfish personal fun and enjoyment... Why not? I would rather spend more for quality batteries rather than kit.
jonnydrive
100 W
aCeMadMod said:
aCeMadMod what exactly are we misleading about?
This is something i had in mind. (the principle)
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/60110592805_3/Unique_Zjmoto_Motorcycle_Black_Aluminum_Bar_Clamp.jpg
But i don't know how would 3 of those handle the torque. Try to imagine it on that image u drawed red arrow.
http://www.cerberotech.com/Fatbike/c30.jpg
Clamp rotation is possible?
I don't know the spacing of frame/clamp in a relationship to holes for the motor but i know these clamps come in various sizes and lenghts (the outer hole on the clamp for 6mm bolt can be further away from the clamp and i saw somewhere holes on both side of clamps, not just 1 side like on this picture). I know it sounds confusing, this picture is just reference.
http://img.prntscr.com/img?url=http://i.imgur.com/H7v0lSK.jpg
http://img.prntscr.com/img?url=http://i.imgur.com/rRmJHfv.jpg
http://img.prntscr.com/img?url=http://i.imgur.com/shLMfOU.jpg
Well, this is 1 HUGE clamp but... I hope u see here what i had in mind. (for a 3 hole fitting, have no idea how to handle 4th )
Or it could hold custom made steel plate ("picture frame" around the motor, connected with motor bolt holes) fitted inside the bike frame, not outside like original brackets, therefor spreading torque on most of the plate, rather than only on 3 clamps. There would be better spread of torque on clamps, reducing possibility of rotating but...
Ah i don't know. I will weld it to the god damn bike frame xD
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/60110592805_3/Unique_Zjmoto_Motorcycle_Black_Aluminum_Bar_Clamp.jpg
But i don't know how would 3 of those handle the torque. Try to imagine it on that image u drawed red arrow.
http://www.cerberotech.com/Fatbike/c30.jpg
Clamp rotation is possible?
I don't know the spacing of frame/clamp in a relationship to holes for the motor but i know these clamps come in various sizes and lenghts (the outer hole on the clamp for 6mm bolt can be further away from the clamp and i saw somewhere holes on both side of clamps, not just 1 side like on this picture). I know it sounds confusing, this picture is just reference.
http://img.prntscr.com/img?url=http://i.imgur.com/H7v0lSK.jpg
http://img.prntscr.com/img?url=http://i.imgur.com/rRmJHfv.jpg
http://img.prntscr.com/img?url=http://i.imgur.com/shLMfOU.jpg
Well, this is 1 HUGE clamp but... I hope u see here what i had in mind. (for a 3 hole fitting, have no idea how to handle 4th
)Or it could hold custom made steel plate ("picture frame" around the motor, connected with motor bolt holes) fitted inside the bike frame, not outside like original brackets, therefor spreading torque on most of the plate, rather than only on 3 clamps. There would be better spread of torque on clamps, reducing possibility of rotating but...
Ah i don't know. I will weld it to the god damn bike frame xD
jonnydrive
100 W
The test of my custom Cyclone bracket ("the costume plate")
This improvement make the quality of ride better.
- The engine chain is perfectly aligned
- No more vibration and crunches caused by the flex of the bracket
- Better cooling due to the removal of secondary engine bracket
- No transmission chain slip, there is no space between the crankset and the costume plate for the chain to slip out
Today I tested my new improvement in a mountain trail, half off-road and half single track.
Here some reference data:
- I drained all my two battery (one 48v 5A,one 60v 10A)
- Engine transmission: 13t engine > 48t crankset
- Bike transmission 32t front > 36t rear
- Total elevation 937 m
- Total distance 18.68 km
- Avg speed total trip 15 km/h
- Avg speed uphill on off-road 20 km/h
- Engine became worm but not hot (outside we have 5°C)
This improvement make the quality of ride better.
- The engine chain is perfectly aligned
- No more vibration and crunches caused by the flex of the bracket
- Better cooling due to the removal of secondary engine bracket
- No transmission chain slip, there is no space between the crankset and the costume plate for the chain to slip out
Today I tested my new improvement in a mountain trail, half off-road and half single track.
Here some reference data:
- I drained all my two battery (one 48v 5A,one 60v 10A)
- Engine transmission: 13t engine > 48t crankset
- Bike transmission 32t front > 36t rear
- Total elevation 937 m
- Total distance 18.68 km
- Avg speed total trip 15 km/h
- Avg speed uphill on off-road 20 km/h
- Engine became worm but not hot (outside we have 5°C)
Glad u resolved it. Is plate connected with that "U" things to the frame?
There should be sticky thread for info like this. What can u actually do with particular motor, drivetrain, battery setup.
95% people are interested i bet, especially new ones like me. It could answer 90% of the questions for a beginner, it would point u on what to look and he could just start "shopping" right after that with tones of less questions.
There should be sticky thread for info like this. What can u actually do with particular motor, drivetrain, battery setup.
95% people are interested i bet, especially new ones like me. It could answer 90% of the questions for a beginner, it would point u on what to look and he could just start "shopping" right after that with tones of less questions.
jonnydrive
100 W
Just2807 said:
Just, check this one
A big clamp to fix the motor
Images from http://www.chirio.com/electric_bike.htm
But, to build it is required a big milling machine (and a big alloy block)
Oh YES! This is exactly what i had in mind (just oriented inside frame). Only difference i had in mind is to use multiple smaller clamps to "save on weight", never occurred me to use 1 fat single which is about 100 times less complex.
Nice find!!!
It shouldn't be too expensive to get some1 to machine it. At least not if it is permanent solution, which also looks uber nice in my opinion.
My buddy is actually working in machinery firm where they make costume industrial parts and they are dealing exclusively with metals and alloys. Will get some info from him. He is working on some massive cnc machine and a saw.
Oh i can see a few costume bended aluminum boxes for batteries or whatever which could be attached in line with that clamp inside frame Would be super slick and clean. Some "toothpaste" under the screws could even help dissipate heat.
Is this aluminum or some mixture?
Nice find!!!
It shouldn't be too expensive to get some1 to machine it. At least not if it is permanent solution, which also looks uber nice in my opinion.
My buddy is actually working in machinery firm where they make costume industrial parts and they are dealing exclusively with metals and alloys. Will get some info from him. He is working on some massive cnc machine and a saw.
Oh i can see a few costume bended aluminum boxes for batteries or whatever which could be attached in line with that clamp inside frame
Would be super slick and clean. Some "toothpaste" under the screws could even help dissipate heat.Is this aluminum or some mixture?
jonnydrive
100 W
I agree with you, and it will be strong enough to keep the battery pack in position without any other fixes.
To build this big clamp, or in your case many small clamps (maybe fixed together), it will required some machined work.
I think at least a good milling machine.
I'am trying to build myself the aluminium clamp to fix my battery pack on the frame, for a beginner as me is not so easy....
To build this big clamp, or in your case many small clamps (maybe fixed together), it will required some machined work.
I think at least a good milling machine.
I'am trying to build myself the aluminium clamp to fix my battery pack on the frame, for a beginner as me is not so easy....
Well, i got some info.
Machining wouldn't be a problem for a 1-2 pieces, it could go "under the table" outside of production line.
But!
U need specific 3D model of it (some weird extension for a machine, non CAD or Catia or Maya or even Solidworks) and aluminum block around 40x40x40 cm would be little less than 100 €
Cheapest (working) thing would be to weld steel, junkyards full of "custom" parts.
Like some1 said; cheap, light, fast... Pick 2
Machining wouldn't be a problem for a 1-2 pieces, it could go "under the table" outside of production line.
But!
U need specific 3D model of it (some weird extension for a machine, non CAD or Catia or Maya or even Solidworks) and aluminum block around 40x40x40 cm would be little less than 100 €
Cheapest (working) thing would be to weld steel, junkyards full of "custom" parts.
Like some1 said; cheap, light, fast... Pick 2
jonnydrive
100 W
Nice work 33du!
How did you bend 4 mm of steel?
May I suggest you to seal connectors on controllers.
Oil for gearbox is also in my to-do list, have you already some idea for the grease to oil conversion?
How did you bend 4 mm of steel?
May I suggest you to seal connectors on controllers.
Oil for gearbox is also in my to-do list, have you already some idea for the grease to oil conversion?
33du
1 mW
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2015
- Messages
- 12
Friend of mine has truck repair center and there is tools to cut and bend steel, just like cutting or bending paper
On gearbox there is some start coles for screws allready, need to drill small hole on bottom and put some metal piexe for pipe.. that's still in progress but more like ATF guys has done, also those gaskets needs to be checked or replace to keep oil inside..
On gearbox there is some start coles for screws allready, need to drill small hole on bottom and put some metal piexe for pipe.. that's still in progress but more like ATF guys has done, also those gaskets needs to be checked or replace to keep oil inside..
Greetings fellow, I've thought and I finally ordered a 840W engine Cyclon-1680Watt to ride my espezialiced enduro.
The engine Cyclon-72volt 36volt 1800-3000watt is one heavier and harder to fix the bike frame by its heavy kilo.
The AFT, EGO KIT, commercial kit engines mounted under the bottom bracket. But in this post I have seen that also montais engines in the triangle of the bicycle frame.
That option recomendais me to ride my bike?
I like the triangle in the picture, but not if it is the most appropriate option.
Greetings and thanks
The engine Cyclon-72volt 36volt 1800-3000watt is one heavier and harder to fix the bike frame by its heavy kilo.
The AFT, EGO KIT, commercial kit engines mounted under the bottom bracket. But in this post I have seen that also montais engines in the triangle of the bicycle frame.
That option recomendais me to ride my bike?
I like the triangle in the picture, but not if it is the most appropriate option.
Greetings and thanks
33du said:
[url]http://nsmb.com/5375-2013-specialized-enduro-teaser/[/url]
http://nsmb.com/5375-2013-specialized-enduro-teaser/
I think in the enduro speazialiced, you can place the engine Cyclon in the triangle of the frame.
