Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

[jonnydrive]

Hi crossbreak,
if we relay on vendor web site, motor efficiency is about 90% @ 1350 Watt. No idea about at which voltage or if the curve change for 1650w kit.

from cyclone web site: http://www.cyclone-tw.com/dc24.htm

The power waste of reductions, gears, etc is much the same in any non-hub motors, so i don't consider it in the comparison.

The real advantage to have engine with more peak power is to have better acceleration, better torque and better top speed. In my ride, I noticed a big difference using the 66volt battery pack (66v*35A=2310w) instead the classic 48volt pack (48v*35A=1680w); the engine spin faster, torque si much better and acceleration too.

Rarely my ride are steadily at the maximum power, also in a very steep climb I use to reduce the gears to increase engine speed. Only on standing start or on heavy acceleration the engine drain the maximum power for a few seconds.

Which engine is better? I have no idea! Cyclone is powerful and upgradable (professional upgrade as AFT show how strong can be), maybe more complex to manage and often faulty :x but I am happy with my choice!

 

[Nathan]

6v*35A=2310w

Yes you are happy with your choice as it seems to be working well for you at very high power of 2310w ! And yeah AFT has upgrades that made this motor very reliable with steel gears, Cheecky bloke has done 8900 miles with original motor and gearbox with the AFT mods like ceramic bearings and mos2 oil in the gearbox.

In comparison the BBSHD at ONLY 1600w peak is low power and i haven't seen anyone do many miles on it yet .And i bet with the weak plastic gears and grease i bet it won't be long before they wear and break.... Have you ever seen plastic used in any car/motorbike drive train ? No ! for long service life you have steel gears and OIL .

 

[Just2807]

jonny, anything fammiliar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVt1rPqHIg

 

[jonnydrive]

jonny, anything fammiliar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVt1rPqHIg

yhea, Cyclone put more and more power on its engine with the same crappy brackets!
Unfortunately I don't think that the solution in the video with the two alloy rings are enough to keep the engine in position (and aligned with the cogs) under heavy torque. I made myself a bigger engine support and I still have some flex problems..

 

[Just2807]

Well, i still dont see any other worthwhile solution than costume steel frame :\

 

[robocam]

Have you all not seen this thread? A simple 1/2" x 1/8" aluminum bar will enable you to run 6500 watts (90A at 72V) through a Cyclone 3000.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1275#p1209776

Here's what I did, and this is similar to what Gman is using in his setup.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=900#p1183884

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1375#p1223967

jonny, anything fammiliar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVt1rPqHIg

yhea, Cyclone put more and more power on its engine with the same crappy brackets!
Unfortunately I don't think that the solution in the video with the two alloy rings are enough to keep the engine in position (and aligned with the cogs) under heavy torque. I made myself a bigger engine support and I still have some flex problems..

 

[robocam]

The BBSHD is quiet. The Cyclone 3000 uses plastic gears, and is also very quiet, and it can handle 6500 watts (90A at 72V).

...the BBSHD at ONLY 1600w peak is low power and i haven't seen anyone do many miles on it yet .And i bet with the weak plastic gears and grease i bet it won't be long before they wear and break.... Have you ever seen plastic used in any car/motorbike drive train ? No ! for long service life you have steel gears and OIL .

 

[jonnydrive]

Hi folks,
I would like to update this thread with the new improvement that I made to make the maximum from the cyclone 1680w engine.

I ride it a lot: on street going to work every day and on mountain in hard trail where bikers not wish to venture into.

What can I say? With the correct setup the engine in incredible powerful and reliable, providing more torque than I need.

Following upgrade and consideration suggested by my experience with this kind of motor:
- You need to build your own engine frame, there is no way to use the original one (it bends, flex, chain slip, etc)
- To avoid overheating use 13/14T -> 53 T as primary reduction (engine) with a 34T --> 40T as secondary (with this setup overheating never happens)

the 53T also provide a decent pedaling rate keeping a good maximum speed of 50 km/h
the engine must spin fast, use granny gearing keep the engine at full speed
- 60V (nominal) battery pack provide a significant improvement in term of speed and torque instead of 48 volt, I suggest this upgrade
- I broke 6 shitty half/full throttle, finally I bought a Domino Throttle, improvement in acceleration feed also keeping the original controller
- Use a big tire in the rear wheel to provide a good traction (fat or semi fat are the better choice)
- I broke 2 hub rear freewheel, to much torque, remove them, they are not needed (you have other 2 freewheel at crank ad motor that provide all you need)
- To avoid chain slip provide chain guide, I made my with simply rubber fixed on the engine plate

have fun!

 

[zackclark70]

you should do a rewind and add better bearings it really does help with performance eff and gearbox life i am pushing 3kw with your cooling you could get 4kw maybe more

 

[sannis]

Hi folks,
I would like to update this thread with the new improvement that I made to make the maximum from the cyclone 1680w engine.

Hi jonnydrive, nice to read you. I have this Cyclone kit 1680W. You can see video on YT with my ride: https://youtu.be/O9piWnzIH_E
This kit have some advantages like: weight (only 3,6kg), powerfull. But I'm a little disappointed. I cant pedaling when i use motor. The rpm is too high and normal cadence is impossible. I use 13t on motor and 44T on first sprocket and 32T to 12-36 rear freewheel. Hence the range is max 20km with 10Ah 12s lipo, because I cant pedal asist.
Now I buy some fat bike form Italy and I wonder whether to sell this cyclone kit and buy some 9C hub motor. On 9C I can ride 60km on 20AhLipo with pedalling much more.

What is range with your setup? Did you can pedaling when run motor?

 

[zackclark70]

Hi folks,
I would like to update this thread with the new improvement that I made to make the maximum from the cyclone 1680w engine.

Hi jonnydrive, nice to read you. I have this Cyclone kit 1680W. You can see video on YT with my ride: https://youtu.be/O9piWnzIH_E
This kit have some advantages like: weight (only 3,6kg), powerfull. But I'm a little disappointed. I cant pedaling when i use motor. The rpm is too high and normal cadence is impossible. I use 13t on motor and 44T on first sprocket and 32T to 12-36 rear freewheel. Hence the range is max 20km with 10Ah 12s lipo, because I cant pedal asist.
Now I buy some fat bike form Italy and I wonder whether to sell this cyclone kit and buy some 9C hub motor. On 9C I can ride 60km on 20AhLipo with pedalling much more.

What is range with your setup? Did you can pedaling when run motor?

you could rewind the motor with extra turns to change the kv you could drop the rpm by 10% for every 3 turns you add

 

[jk1]

the 53T also provide a decent pedaling rate keeping a good maximum speed of 50 km/h

Where did you get that 54T chainwheel from and bolts to 5 bolt freewheel ? did you make it yourself ?

How fast do your gears wear out ? i have seen some people like AFT run this motor at 72v 5kw but they had to harden the gears as they wear out fast. or is it still ok at 60v ?

 

[jonnydrive]

Hi folks,
I would like to update this thread with the new improvement that I made to make the maximum from the cyclone 1680w engine.

Hi jonnydrive, nice to read you. I have this Cyclone kit 1680W. You can see video on YT with my ride: https://youtu.be/O9piWnzIH_E
This kit have some advantages like: weight (only 3,6kg), powerfull. But I'm a little disappointed. I cant pedaling when i use motor. The rpm is too high and normal cadence is impossible. I use 13t on motor and 44T on first sprocket and 32T to 12-36 rear freewheel. Hence the range is max 20km with 10Ah 12s lipo, because I cant pedal asist.
Now I buy some fat bike form Italy and I wonder whether to sell this cyclone kit and buy some 9C hub motor. On 9C I can ride 60km on 20AhLipo with pedalling much more.

What is range with your setup? Did you can pedaling when run motor?

Hi sannis,
think twice before replace the cyclone with an hub motor, torque will not be the same, and the bike weigh will be unbalanced. If you like ride in a single track or technical path as the one I saw in your video you may improve your cyclone instead replace it.
If you want pedaling alongside the motor you can replace the 44t cog with a bigger one, as I did.
I found 53 tooth with 13t or 14t engine freewheel as a good compromise for my ride.
On flat I use 44t front and 12t rear as bike transmission, with this gearing I am able to follow the motor up to 35/40 km/h, the torque is quite good form standing start.

With a battery of 10AhLipo on flat I am able to run about 25-30km

have fun!

 

[jonnydrive]

you could rewind the motor with extra turns to change the kv you could drop the rpm by 10% for every 3 turns you add

What you suggest requires too much effort, and too much expertise. If I want to improve the performance I will buy a cyclone 3kw. :lol:

 

[jonnydrive]

the 53T also provide a decent pedaling rate keeping a good maximum speed of 50 km/h

Where did you get that 54T chainwheel from and bolts to 5 bolt freewheel ? did you make it yourself ?

How fast do your gears wear out ? i have seen some people like AFT run this motor at 72v 5kw but they had to harden the gears as they wear out fast. or is it still ok at 60v ?

I made my 53T chainwheel, if someone want do the same here you can find my Solidworks project:
http://www.cerberotech.com/Fatbike/Sprocket_bici_parametrico_nosmusso.SLDPRT

Note: I am not a pro with Solidwork so please double check the project before machine it

My bike have about 6000-7000 km I changed:
- the engine gearbox gears only ones
- the sprocket cassette only ones (not for wear but to improve performance) this one is quite strong http://www.ridewill.it/p/en/sunrace-525260390-cassette-sprocket-mtb-11s-11-42t-shimano-alloy/110345/
- the 44t chainring is the original (need to be replace soon)
- the 24t chiainring 3 times, the last one I used a bmx steel cog, a very good choice it will last ...forever I think!
- motor chain, changed 2 times, 8 gears chain or better 1 gear chain are strong enough for 2-3kw engine
- bike chain a lot of time, it is the weakest part

The standard cyclone engine with the original controller run at 60v works very well, torque is noticeable improved and also the speed. If overheating occurs it is because you are using wrong gearing.
I suggest a 60v improvement only if you want do offroad ride that requires granny gearing and a good speed (for the most of my offroad I use the 40T sprocket cassette with 24t front cog).

 

[zackclark70]

you could rewind the motor with extra turns to change the kv you could drop the rpm by 10% for every 3 turns you add

What you suggest requires too much effort, and too much expertise. If I want to improve the performance I will buy a cyclone 3kw. :lol:

i was a noob to motor rewinds and it only took me 2 evenings added 33% more copper fill it really is not that hard because its a star wound motor 3kw kits are good but i want something that will pass as a 250w motor and not look like i have more motor than bike plus it is very light compared to most other power options

 

[jonnydrive]

you could rewind the motor with extra turns to change the kv you could drop the rpm by 10% for every 3 turns you add

What you suggest requires too much effort, and too much expertise. If I want to improve the performance I will buy a cyclone 3kw. :lol:

i was a noob to motor rewinds and it only took me 2 evenings added 33% more copper fill it really is not that hard because its a star wound motor 3kw kits are good but i want something that will pass as a 250w motor and not look like i have more motor than bike plus it is very light compared to most other power options

You catch my attention, please provide some details, i.e. what kind the wire you used, what kind of schema/reference and if you have some photos

Thanks

 

[zackclark70]

you could rewind the motor with extra turns to change the kv you could drop the rpm by 10% for every 3 turns you add

What you suggest requires too much effort, and too much expertise. If I want to improve the performance I will buy a cyclone 3kw. :lol:

i was a noob to motor rewinds and it only took me 2 evenings added 33% more copper fill it really is not that hard because its a star wound motor 3kw kits are good but i want something that will pass as a 250w motor and not look like i have more motor than bike plus it is very light compared to most other power options

You catch my attention, please provide some details, i.e. what kind the wire you used, what kind of schema/reference and if you have some photos

Thanks

unfortunately i have no good photos as i never realsied nobody had done a complete rewind on here before i used 28 turns of 220c rated 18awg wire but to do that you need to mod the plastics at the ends of the motor to make more space for wire the standard wind is 28 turns of 2 parallel 22awg (19awg equivalent) i would stick with 19 if you want to lower the kv as every 3 extra (2.8) turns is 10% slower when i track down a blown motor cheap i will do a rewind with 19 or 20 awg and wind it for 75v or 100v

the standard motor is star wound with 28 ccw turns of parallel 22awg on all 12 slots all 12 lower wire pairs go to the lower board and the top 12 get split into the 3 phases i am lucky i have an awesome memory so i just unwound the whole thing and just did it in reverse to put it back together so i would suggest recording yourself taking it apart and writing down notes as you go

not sure whare your from but other option is to get someone else to rewind it for you but if you do it you will need about 1kg of wire i think it has about 500g as standard and i used about 800g plus a bit for the couple of mistakes i made

i havent pushed the rewind crazy hard yet as i just put new bearings and planetary gears in it but it runs way cooler than before ( i had the metal fins before now its just the bare motor with no cooling mods yet )

 

[sviatpizdat]

Hello!
I have 1680w motor with kelly controler.
I used 60A with 48V for half a year and everithing was ok.

Than i increase current to 65A, and after ~300kilometers my gearbox failed.

What maximum current do you use for this motor?

Is there difference in power between 48V60A and 60V48A ?
It wolud be higher rpm at 60V ?

 

[electric_nz]

Hard to tell but it looks like those Sun gear teeth are worn out- if the outer ring is ok just buy Replacement sun gears from the cyclone-tw website.

I used one of these for years at 58.8v / 52A with no issues

 

[robocam]

It would be much easier on your gears if you ran it at a higher voltage. Yes, the rpm would be higher, and the torque will be lower, so your gears should last longer.

...Is there difference in power between 48V60A and 60V48A ?
It wolud be higher rpm at 60V ?

 

[sviatpizdat]

Hello!
Does anyone have spreadsheets or some graphic charts test of 1680w motor?
I can't find nothing


I run at 60a, 48v. After 2000-3000km, my gearbox gears became asymmetricaly worn out.
Than a bought a new gearbox. All was great, but after 300km, my some strange sound appeared((

 

[Gab]

Best you copy what AFT ebike did with the mini cyclone at that power gears are in oil bath and I think they used hardened gears

 

[jonnydrive]

Hello!
Does anyone have spreadsheets or some graphic charts test of 1680w motor?
I can't find nothing


I run at 60a, 48v. After 2000-3000km, my gearbox gears became asymmetricaly worn out.
Than a bought a new gearbox. All was great, but after 300km, my some strange sound appeared((

300km... it is possible that the engine bearings need to be replaced...

 

[bikerboy]

Hi guys! Been lurking for a while and suddenly find myself with a question for the group! I know its an old thread but hoping Zack is still monitoring it.
Zack, can you please explain how you removed the winding stack from the 1680 motor housing? I want to rewind an old motor, have played around with some hobby motor windings so ready to dive in, just dont want to wreck the stack trying to get it out!