$1500 to spend

Hey guys,

My name is Al and I'm a new viewer/poster on this forum. I'm impressed (and very intimidated) by how much knowledge you all have of electronics and physics. I slept through most of my science classes in school, so going the route of art major in college leaves me at a huge disadvantage in comparison to the rocket scientists who contribute here. So, now that the ass kissing is complete, I'll proceed with my questions about the daily commuter bike I'm contemplating:

I have an old Giant hard tail mountain bike as my donor (30 lbs.). I have a 25 mile round trip commute which consists of rolling hills. By car, one leg of this route (12.5 miles) takes thirty-minutes. The average time I spend at traffic lights is five-minutes. To achieve the same time on my bike, I would have to maintain an average speed of 30 mph. I weigh 155 lbs. and my lunch weighs around 5 lbs. My budget is +- $1500.

Here is the rig I'm contemplating:
- Crystalyte x5304 (rear wheel)
- Crystalyte NiMh 48v 13Ah
http://www.poweridestore.com/NiMH-Battery-Packs/48V-13AH-NiMH-Battery-Box
- controller? (the battery lists 25Ah as its max draw)
- Standard charger which comes with the NiMh battery
- High-speed slick tires

Calculating the amount of battery juice gives me 624 watt hours... right?

How do I figure out how much juice is being drawn from the motor at max throttle? I know it has to do with the controller and how much it sucks from the battery to feed the motor, but what do I calculate using the above mentioned battery?

ANY help would be appreciated. Also, any suggestions about a better setup?

Thanks in advance.

Al

Al,
Check to see if battery box will fit in triangle area of frame? Found this picture on Crystalyte website. Make a cardboard template with dimensions shown. Triangle area is best place for battery weight.

The electric wizards here should be able to answer your electric questions.

Thanks for the tip, Marty. It'll fit; I checked the frame geometry and I even have a bit of wiggle room in there. I figure that this box is the ideal shape/location for the handling of the bike, but I can't seem to find any other info about how reliable it is. The only drawback is the loss in stealth-factor. Maybe I'll glue a giant nipple on it an claim that it's a big water bottle if I'm ever hassled by The Man.

BTW: Anyone ever get pulled over and cited for riding any of the electric monsters I've seen posted on here?

Is it possible to just buy that Crystalyte box, and put your own cells in it ?

EMF said:

Is it possible to just buy that Crystalyte box, and put your own cells in it ?

Click to expand...

Dunno. What's your take on the cells it comes with?

Howdy,

The 'zotter say you will need 750W at the back wheel to maintain 30mph. (MTB, slicks, 60lb bike)

You'll use >375Wh on the outbound leg, so you'll need to charge-up for the return trip. Unless you pedal.

NiMh are a waste, IMO. If you can scrape enough ching to get LiMn or LiFe, you won't regret it. If not: NiCd would be my next choice; a bit heavier, but more robust and longer life.

I see you went right for the big motor, the 5304. Its a great motor, but for what you want to do, and your budget, its probably not the best choice.

if you're looking for 30mph and long range, most of your money is going to need to go into batteries. NiMH are fine for most things, but for the amount of power you're going to need, some form of Lithium will be needed. figure $1000 on batteries.

As for the motor, a 5304 is great, but expensive, heavy, and overkill.
If you chose to run a 407 or 408 instead, yo can shave 10 pounds off the bike, 3 or 400 dollars of the price of the bike, and still keep the speed. In addition, the battery requirment will be less, so your range will go up.

running a 407 at 72 volts will give you more than 30mph, and at 30-40 amps, will give you good acceleration. enough to beat cars through an intersection.

The 40X series is roughly equivilent to a 50cc gas scooter.
The 530X series is closer to a small motorcycle.
bigger isn't always better, especialy on a budget.

Its has taken around $2500 so far to get my 408 upto the preformance level I want it. its stealth, and can't be distinguished easily from a regular bike. of that $2500, $150 went for the original bike, and another $400 into upgrades to the running gear, and building of a battery rack that could handle the abuse of the battery weight, plus brake and tire upgrades.
The original setup cost me $1000

If I had tried to build a 5304, I figure I'd have spent about $4000 by now, to get it to the same preformance level.

Thanks Tyler and Drunkskunk.

I assume the reason for the listed wattage rating of most of these motors for sale is that 750w and under is considered street legal ... right? Makes sense, but a lay person can get very confused (and buy more motor than one needs). Got it. Big motor plus little battery equals a low performing e-bike which would please any cop.

I thought the 408 was small potatoes and dismissed it, but you're telling me that with the proper battery it'll make me move like a hot potato. I guess it makes sense.

Here's my new plan:
- Buy the Crys. Cannon kit since Ativesolutions.com is practically located in my back yard (408 v2 motor with "pretty" 36V 10Ah NiMh pack)
- Test it out to find which area of performance it lacks (for all I know, I'll be happy with a kit that allows me to go 20mph) I am, after all, still willing use those twirling things upon which people rest their feet.
- Start shopping for a six pack of 12V lithiums and see how fast I can take it before the motor or controller melts ... or my shorts need changing.

One more question: can the controller that comes with the Cannon handle more voltage than 36, or should I just do the above test on my wife's bike (minus the six-pack idea), then piece together my own kit based on what I'll most likely need?

Again, appreicate any help from the Ebike gods.

Run the simulator at ebikes.ca

I have the 5304 with 36V LiFePo4 12 aH batteries. Rear end is heavy, really hard to carry up stairs in an apartment.

Top speed is about 35 kph. Pulls up hills at 20-25 kph.

Whole setup was about $ 1800 with 5304, controller, Cycleanalyst, batteries, bike, helmet, etc.

I'd go for the modified 50A controller at ebikes.ca. $ 80 more, but no worries when you add 72V batteries later.

I'm fairly new, if you check some of my posts you can tell what I went thru.

Make sure you use a torque bar with the motor. One guy tore up a 5304 when it twisted out of the stays.

DK

I did a test this morning riding my roadie to work. It took ten-minutes more than driving my car (12.5 miles in 40 min.). Not bad for a guy who hasn't ridden in five-or-so-years. The ride home might be another story.

I'm re-thinking my strategy *again*. With a bit more boost up hills and on the flats, I think I could make due with the l Bionx kit on my road bike and still get to work sweatless. The only drawback would be five less minutes of sleep in the morning. The benefits would be eating an extra slice of pizza without any guilt. Also, I tried to imagine holding a throttle open while giving a good effort on the peddals. The Bionx system automatically assists without any constant user input.

This is an interesting link to a setup I have in mind:
http://www.jvbike.com/bikes/CRD_BionX.htm

<img src="http://www.jvbike.com/images/EPS/CRD4_2_800.jpg">

One thing I've forgotten about riding in traffic: there's danger everywhere.