1,500 lb eTrike???

[Papa]

Interesting?

https://sk.pinterest.com/mossha150/cool-bike-vending-carts/

 

[amberwolf]

Between the sensor and a powerful controller that can interpret a torque sensor (or a CA), I think the system would be both too complicated and too expensive for most pedicabbers' liking. They are a primitive species.

Ah. Well, it was just a thought.

 

[Chalo]

Thanks for clarifying. Okay, so if I use Unbroken Components’ wheels, would you use their front or their rear wheel version for the two front wheels on a tadpole trike?

If you want wheels that are unsupported on the outside axle end, or you want bearings that aren't loaded to near their maximum ratings, use rear pedicab wheels on a 1" Peerless axle. Also, rear pedicab wheels have wider spaced, symmetrical flanges, so that makes them stronger than fronts built on the same rims.

If I use a Peerless differential/axle type setup, should I attempt to support the outside of the wheel hubs as well? Or can they be supported from only one side? I did see the Peerless 1” axle is rated for 600 lbs.

1" steel axles overhung 6" or so (like they are on pedicabs) can carry much more than 600 pounds per side, as long as they have adequate bearing support. That means an inboard bearing near the diff housing and an outboard bearing just inside the wheel or disc brake, on each half axle. If the frame sags in the middle where the inboard bearings attach, that can be a problem for the diff, and even cause it to come apart. But that isn't a fault of the axle.

 

[Mossha150]

This looks like a similar idea, but mounted on a golf cart.
Florida Keg Karts
View attachment 347095

That’s pretty awesome!

 

[Mossha150]

As previously posted

1,500 lb eTrike???

Others have suggested looking at more robust wheels such as those for a pedicab or even scooter or motorcycle wheels. If I can make it work, I do like the classic look of a spoked/laced wheel, but if the engineering doesn’t support it, I’ll have to look at other options. Pedicab wheels are...

endless-sphere.com

one good way is to take your riding conditions, etc. to calculators or simulators like those on ebikes.ca , to guesstimate your probable power usage under various conditions with various drivetrains / gear ratios / wheel sizes / etc, as well as wh/mile to guesstimate battery capacity required for your range needs.

Good point. I used the simulator on ebikes.ca previously using the Grin All-Axle hub motors. I’ll see if I can figure out how to model a gearmotor with it.

 

[Mossha150]

If you want wheels that are unsupported on the outside axle end, or you want bearings that aren't loaded to near their maximum ratings, use rear pedicab wheels on a 1" Peerless axle. Also, rear pedicab wheels have wider spaced, symmetrical flanges, so that makes them stronger than fronts built on the same rims.



1" steel axles overhung 6" or so (like they are on pedicabs) can carry much more than 600 pounds per side, as long as they have adequate bearing support. That means an inboard bearing near the diff housing and an outboard bearing just inside the wheel or disc brake, on each half axle. If the frame sags in the middle where the inboard bearings attach, that can be a problem for the diff, and even cause it to come apart. But that isn't a fault of the axle.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction with the hubs and axles. Out of curiosity, have you ever seen any sort of axle/hub vertical offset setup, like a portal axle on a 4x4? I have to figure out how far off the ground I can have the axle and still maintain a worksurface height of about 40-42”. The axle height may end up being at a height that doesn’t match the hub of a 20” or 26“ wheel. If there’s an axle height issue, maybe I could look at using 1“ stub axles on both sides and driving both of them from either a remotely located gearmotor and drive axle or possibly use a gearmotor on each side. Just a thought…

 

[Chalo]

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction with the hubs and axles. Out of curiosity, have you ever seen any sort of axle/hub vertical offset setup, like a portal axle on a 4x4?

I have not seen that on pedicab rears, but I have designed and implemented a single sided pedicab front end that uses a rear wheel (and therefore needs a stub axle). We built a whole fleet of trikes like that. For expediency and parts support, I used a BMX mid bottom bracket with 22mm bearings in the fork tip.



For the size load you're projecting, I would not use a reduced size at the bearings like I did with the one-sided forks. Maybe instead, a heavy duty DH or freestyle headset on each side (e.g. FSA The Pig), so the stub axles can neck down to 1" for the hubs instead of fattening up to 1".

If you do something like that, I would suggest putting a disc rotor on the inside of the frame where the stub axle attaches, and a drive sprocket on the outside (to minimize overhung length).

There more I think about this project, the more it makes sense to me to use vintage light motorcycle rear wheels, so you can get a drive sprocket and a drum brake already integrated to each one.

 

[PaPaSteve]

Maybe a better way to handle the load would be to use auto rated parts.
Like this Hub Part
Or a rear axle repurposed from any small front drive car sourced from an auto salvage yard.
A Harbor Freight / Northern Tool trailer kit might be a low cost starting point and then add in heavy duty bicycle stuff.
These type trailer tires have very low rolling resistance.

For a couple years we owned a China made, heavy duty pedal electric cargo trike that look similar to this :
Trike
The motor powered one rear wheel and the rear brake also functioned on only one rear wheel.
The rear brake was activated by the odd lever mounted on the frame between the seat and handlebar.
When either power or brake was operated it would veer hard off the intended steered path.
It was a bit scary in traffic.

 

[Mossha150]

I have not seen that on pedicab rears, but I have designed and implemented a single sided pedicab front end that uses a rear wheel (and therefore needs a stub axle). We built a whole fleet of trikes like that. For expediency and parts support, I used a BMX mid bottom bracket with 22mm bearings in the fork tip.

View attachment 347164

For the size load you're projecting, I would not use a reduced size at the bearings like I did with the one-sided forks. Maybe instead, a heavy duty DH or freestyle headset on each side (e.g. FSA The Pig), so the stub axles can neck down to 1" for the hubs instead of fattening up to 1".

If you do something like that, I would suggest putting a disc rotor on the inside of the frame where the stub axle attaches, and a drive sprocket on the outside (to minimize overhung length).

There more I think about this project, the more it makes sense to me to use vintage light motorcycle rear wheels, so you can get a drive sprocket and a drum brake already integrated to each one.

Interesting idea. I’ll check into motorcycle rear wheels.

 

[Mossha150]

Maybe a better way to handle the load would be to use auto rated parts.
Like this Hub Part
Or a rear axle repurposed from any small front drive car sourced from an auto salvage yard.
A Harbor Freight / Northern Tool trailer kit might be a low cost starting point and then add in heavy duty bicycle stuff.
These type trailer tires have very low rolling resistance.

For a couple years we owned a China made, heavy duty pedal electric cargo trike that look similar to this :
Trike
The motor powered one rear wheel and the rear brake also functioned on only one rear wheel.
The rear brake was activated by the odd lever mounted on the frame between the seat and handlebar.
When either power or brake was operated it would veer hard off the intended steered path.
It was a bit scary in traffic.

Interesting thoughts, I didn’t consider an automotive wheel hub assembly. I wonder if they could be adapted to pedicab or motorcycle wheels if I wanted to maintain a spoked or laced wheel setup?

 

[Mossha150]

Interesting?

https://sk.pinterest.com/mossha150/cool-bike-vending-carts/

I see you found my idea hoarding on Pinterest!

 

[PaPaSteve]

Interesting thoughts, I didn’t consider an automotive wheel hub assembly. I wonder if they could be adapted to pedicab or motorcycle wheels if I wanted to maintain a spoked or laced wheel setup?

The car parts occurred to me because of an silly experience I've was involved in.
Once upon a time I was part of a recumbent tandem powered 4 wheel drive quad that pulled a tandem axle gardening trailer loaded with 17 people up a boat ramp.
Say the average people weight was 180# times 17 = 3,060# plus 1,000 trailer weight plus the quad and our weight ???

The quad was built for the Kinetic Grand Championship, a people powered event

 

[Mossha150]

If you want wheels that are unsupported on the outside axle end, or you want bearings that aren't loaded to near their maximum ratings, use rear pedicab wheels on a 1" Peerless axle. Also, rear pedicab wheels have wider spaced, symmetrical flanges, so that makes them stronger than fronts built on the same rims.



1" steel axles overhung 6" or so (like they are on pedicabs) can carry much more than 600 pounds per side, as long as they have adequate bearing support. That means an inboard bearing near the diff housing and an outboard bearing just inside the wheel or disc brake, on each half axle. If the frame sags in the middle where the inboard bearings attach, that can be a problem for the diff, and even cause it to come apart. But that isn't a fault of the axle.

I found this on Precision Pedicab Manufacturing’s website, a Cyclone motor kit. Is this the basic idea of what you find works well for a gearmotor setup (see attached)? Also, do you think it would be overkill to use a 6kW gearmotor in lieu of a 4kW?

 

[Mossha150]

The car parts occurred to me because of an silly experience I've was involved in.
Once upon a time I was part of a recumbent tandem powered 4 wheel drive quad that pulled a tandem axle gardening trailer loaded with 17 people up a boat ramp.
Say the average people weight was 180# times 17 = 3,060# plus 1,000 trailer weight plus the quad and our weight ???

The quad was built for the Kinetic Grand Championship, a people powered event

View attachment 347259

Whoa, that’s quite the setup! Out of curiosity, did you use fat bike wheels for the trailer as well, with it carrying 4,000+ lbs?

 

[PaPaSteve]

Whoa, that’s quite the setup! Out of curiosity, did you use fat bike wheels for the trailer as well, with it carrying 4,000+ lbs?

Trailer Tires link here
Trailer was a open gardening variety that normally would be used to haul lawn mowers trimmers and the like.
Licensed for road use and highway speeds.
The point being . . . automotive rated parts available new, in volume or from salvage yards can be much lower cost than a pair of custom made bicycle wheels and will be rated for your design loads.

Starting from a repurposed bike suggests there is a limited build budget ? ? ?

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www.cyclone-tw.com

 

[samuel24]

Just to make it more complicated some ATVs have 12v power assisted steering that I think is mostly stand alone. Rip a unit out and bolt it in somehow .

 

[Diggs]

I haven't followed the whole thread but from what I understand you may want to explore electric tuk-tuks (as I think they are called). Not sure how shipping to Palmer works for something like that though.