That depends...if you are making it a tadpole like the Trice, couplling pedals/"oars"/etc to the rear drivetrain would be easy, compared to doing it for teh front rider (which will either have a very long chainline, or need something like a U-joint axle to couple to one of the steerable front wheels (or both of them).justin_le wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2018 8:55 amFor whatever reason I seem to be a sucker for setting myself up for last minute engineering heroics, delaying the start of a project until there is physically just barely time to pull it off.
You're not the only one with this problem.
So the plan is to make just the rear facing row station run a generator, which should be easier mechanically than coupling it to the pedal drivetrain.
Well, since you put it out there, that is typical of a "last minute boss". You probably feel that you have other things that need attention before the project at hand and when you get it done in the last minute you feel a gratification by "pulling it off".Oops. For whatever reason I seem to be a sucker for setting myself up for last minute engineering heroics, delaying the start of a project until there is physically just barely time to pull it off.
It will get you in great shape for your wedding, however, women (generally) have weaker upper bodies then men. You might end up with more time in the back seat then the front.My plan for this is a little crazy, ....... I want the backseat of this trike to be a rowing machine instead.
Well, as of today it is "on the way" for REAL. The last 2 weeks I've been pouring over various trike design and trike builds and looking for used trikes for sale that would be suitable for hacking up and converting into this solar tandem. My original original plan was to build the frame from scratch over winter by doing another of the Paul Brodie frame building workshops. We were going to host a special 3 week course for custom ebike frame building, and then make the chassis during this workshop. The time window for that option has sadly slipped.
Interesting, so in principle this would allow for the kind of electric drive that Tig implemented in his Electrom vehicle?This rule has been put in place that we wish to have real bike (not some kind of Twike) but also for security reasons (to advance the bike if technical problem with the engine)
Those gen3 top tier cell numbers are amazing, and for something with so little total cells needed the $/watt doesn't really matter.PaulD wrote: ↑Apr 14, 2018 8:58 pmSounds like an amazing adventure, Justin! Much respect for taking this on.
For solar panels, I noticed sunpower sells their cells for individual projects which are pretty efficient. I've always wanted to do a project with them, but never had a chance. https://us.sunpower.com/buy-solar-cells/
Best of luck!
Thanks Luke! I just this weekend got word that my business visa application for Iran has been approved, that was the one main uncertainties in our planned route since Canada/Iran diplomatic relations aren't so hot right now. We're probably not going to make it all the way to China in this run since me and AnSo have plans to get married in August (I think that's an OK excuse not to finish ), but we'll get as far as we can, and either pick it up later or find some other pair of people to take over the vehicle.
Oh awesome. Those cells are less expensive than I was expecting. It wasn't quite on the radar to build up a panel from scratch cells but you've got me is tempted by this for both a) the DIY aspect, and b) the possibility to configuring them in a series string that is effectively optimized for max power into our Lithium pack without a MPPT charge controller. I haven't quantified from the V-I graphs but it seems you could set it up so that on average your losses from not always loading the the cells to the exact max power voltage (over varying temps, sunnlight, and battery SOC), aren't far off from DC-DC converter losses.
Oh yeah, I've had my share of that even on not-so epic rowing events! Part of is you said is that on a boat you are using your hands to manipulate and feather the oars, and there is a lot of relative motion as you grip and twist that causes calluses and blisters. I'm hopeful that on the rowing bike it will be possible to have a grip and hand position that is easier on the skin since it's just a straight pulling motion all the time. I'm sure some of the regular rowbike rowers/riders can chime in? I know there is at least 2 or 3 on this message board!
justin_le wrote: ↑Apr 14, 2018 1:12 pm
The Panels themselves I don't have yet and will need to get a line on soon since that will affect the dimensions and construction details of the solar rooftop. We'll be looking to fit on the full 3 square meters worth of paneling allowed by tandem bikes in the race, in roughly a 90cm x 350cm rooftop that has some degree of adjustable sideways tilt so that we have the option to angle it more optimally towards the sun.
You might want to consider doing series strings only on cells that are oriented in approximately the same direction. MPPT controllers will "hunt" for the right operating point, and if two cells in the string are oriented different directions (i.e. one is generating 2 amps at .6 volts, the other generating 1 amp at .6 volts) it will not be able to find a single operating point that works well. At best it will 'settle' on a 1 amp string operating point (which all cells would then support) but you'd waste power.justin_le wrote: ↑Apr 17, 2018 3:09 amOh awesome. Those cells are less expensive than I was expecting. It wasn't quite on the radar to build up a panel from scratch cells but you've got me is tempted by this for both a) the DIY aspect, and b) the possibility to configuring them in a series string that is effectively optimized for max power into our Lithium pack without a MPPT charge controller. I haven't quantified from the V-I graphs but it seems you could set it up so that on average your losses from not always loading the the cells to the exact max power voltage (over varying temps, sunnlight, and battery SOC), aren't far off from DC-DC converter losses.
Thanks for the suggestion...maybe jump over to my thread for further discussion, but I have considered these exact mods as well. Good suggestion. For now I'm sticking with 30W size as it makes it more practicable and manoeuvrable. I need to get a 3D printer first before I can play around with brackets etc to be able to go to the larger 50W panels. I'm also thinking of putting a couple of panels on the back in a 'tadpole' shape as this will also improve the aero significantly.ScooterMan101 wrote: ↑Apr 17, 2018 10:14 amC D , looking at the picture of your bike-E it looks like you can use a bigger panel on the front , by making a bracket that extends the lower part of the panel out further and at more of an angle .
Also to be able to see above the panel just buy a wind deflector that some motorcycles use on their windscreens .
https://www.ebay.com/p/Universal-Clear- ... 766&chn=ps
MPPT controller is like 10x in complexity (part count) and 1/10x in reliability of PWM and like infinitely unreliable compared to direct system ex. diode. It will also weight much more and many parts must be protected against vibration on a bike application. And I would take 2 spares for trip that long.billvon wrote: ↑Apr 17, 2018 3:48 pmIf you decide to go without an MPPT controller you'll have to worry about temperatures as well as string lengths and orientations, since Si PV cells have a pretty strong negative temperature coefficient with respect to voltage. You can choose worst-case temperatures and design for that of course but you then leave a lot "on the table" in colder temps.
Well, no. A direct system also requires a switch (or linear regulator) to prevent overvoltage. And linear regulators add the complication of thermal management.
If you like. Homemade panels are far less reliable overall than an integrated charge controller. And they weigh about 180 grams - so you can bring a spare if you like without much penalty.It will also weight much more and many parts must be protected against vibration on a bike application. And I would take 2 spares for trip that long.
No, it's not. Let's take a typical example.On other hand, if array is not pointed to sun in uniform angle MPPT could add on efficiency. Temperature factor is only valid in extreme fluctuation.
What about using a (silicone?) grip formed to the hand that flexes along its length and is mounted to the bars by two (or more) roller bearings, at least at the ends (perhaps also the middle)?
Oh sweet work! We were going to have a manual adjustment for the tilt of our roof canopy with telescoping support tubes and just tweak it now and then, when the sun is obviously more to one side of the other. But watching that automatically tilt back and forth as you corner around is pretty magical. Time to replace the telescoping support tubes with linear actuators now
Yeah, since it's a rooftop canopy I can't see any advantage to doing anything other than a perfectly flat panel with all the cells on exactly the same plane and getting the same incident light. Curved panels arguably look better, but in this case make little sense.
Yeah hopefully not too many colder temps on this particular trip. That's an interesting point about the MPPT tracking getting thrown off by local maxima from having differently oriented cells. If I do run with a solar charge controller I'll hook things up in a way to ensure that the panel strings can be easily re-configured for adequate voltage into the pack without a controller if need be. I have full confidence in the BMS board to do overcharge protection with this particular pack setup.billvon wrote: ↑Apr 17, 2018 3:48 pmIf you decide to go without an MPPT controller you'll have to worry about temperatures as well as string lengths and orientations, since Si PV cells have a pretty strong negative temperature coefficient with respect to voltage. You can choose worst-case temperatures and design for that of course but you then leave a lot "on the table" in colder temps.
And hopefully still as one couple too
OK, interesting to hear that firsthand. And I presume that's even without rowing it for 8-10 hours a day, day after day? I found on our rowboat that if I used normal gloves that cover my hands, the extra sweat/humidity could soften the skin and make it almost more callus prone than no gloves. But when we used weight lifting gloves that only covered the palms and were held in place with a thin strap, it made a huge difference.
I'm going to start posting sketches of the rowing mechanism I have in mind next. But basically, the idea is that the legs will be pushing on the pulley portion of a pulley system, while the arms will have the end of the rope, and that means that the leg force will be 2x the arm force while rowing, like they each have their own gear ratio. And I'm hoping that this leads to a better overall balance in the leg vs arm load distribution during the stroke.Most regular folks can produce about as much effort through their arms, as they can through one of their legs.