CYC PHOTON

I'm quoting High Voltage here, who I agree with.

@1boris, the Photon is a lighter weight, torque-sensing motor, and it serves different design intents than the BBSHD. Are apples "orange killers"?
The BBSHD just has way way more functional power and can sustain it for way longer. I think even the BBS02 will sustain it longer because it has more mass to dump heat into.
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Yep, more mass, weight, sometimes troublesome chain line, and no torque sensing. Sure, the BBSHD holds up to abuse and serves its purpose very well - as long as the rider minds what he's doing. The BBSHD, BBS02, and the Tongsheng TSDZ2 with a stock controller/firmware can be also overheated, 'cause they're too stupid to throttle back.
So when it hits 35C here [the Photon is] going to throttle I think.
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Yep - precisely what it (and all of these add-on motors) should do.

Will the future bring a Photon->"SuperPhoton", like the BBS02->BBSHD? progression? Will Bafang engineer another DIY motor? Will Tongsheng try again (TSDZ2B), or as Toseven DM01?
 
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ncmired said:
I'm quoting High Voltage here, who I agree with.

@1boris, the Photon is a lighter weight, torque-sensing motor, and it serves different design intents than the BBSHD. Are apples "orange killers"?

Yep, more mass, weight, sometimes troublesome chain line, and no torque sensing. Sure, the BBSHD holds up to abuse and serves its purpose very well - as long as the rider minds what he's doing. The BBSHD, BBS02, and the Tongsheng with a stock controller/firmware can be also overheated, 'cause they're too stupid to throttle back.

Yep - precisely what it (and all of these add-on motors) should do.

Will the future bring a Photon->"SuperPhoton", like the BBS02->BBSHD? progression? Will Bafang engineer another DIY motor? Will Tongsheng try again?
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looks like tongsheng is cooking something
 

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Big motor,High gear reduction ratio (1:40) and Torque sensor:This could be the motor I have been waiting for
 
For those curious, the Photon motor system is not UL Listed, at this time. They have obtained CE, UKCA, FCC, & RoHS certifications. Granted, it's the battery many of us are worried with, but for those of us who are concerned that the insurance companies will soon add fire damage coverage disclaimers for our toys, IMO progress towards certifications matters.
 
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Those temperature readings are certainly interesting, only a 6c ambient and already 71c. Iirc cyc has the temp set to rollback at 120c, so yeah give it some summer weather in the mid 30's and that's motor is going to get quite hot. It should be noted that Captain was running the default 1000w max mode for Canada, although I'm not sure what power mode or the average wattage was. Seems my original concerns when the motor not being able to handle the 2000w max claim and that it wouldn't really poach any bbshd customers was valid. But I have warmed up a lot to the motor though, but I still think its priced high for what it is.

Cyc allegedly has the "proton" in the works if you believe a random person in the HV discord who claims to have received email conformation. In this alleged email it will have 3500w max and be released in August but knowing cyc's time frame history who knows for sure but it certainly sounds interesting.
 
Bengy22 said:
Those temperature readings are certainly interesting, only a 6c ambient and already 71c. Iirc cyc has the temp set to rollback at 120c, so yeah give it some summer weather in the mid 30's and that's motor is going to get quite hot. It should be noted that Captain was running the default 1000w max mode for Canada, although I'm not sure what power mode or the average wattage was. Seems my original concerns when the motor not being able to handle the 2000w max claim and that it wouldn't really poach any bbshd customers was valid. But I have warmed up a lot to the motor though, but I still think its priced high for what it is.

Cyc allegedly has the "proton" in the works if you believe a random person in the HV discord who claims to have received email conformation. In this alleged email it will have 3500w max and be released in August but knowing cyc's time frame history who knows for sure but it certainly sounds interesting.
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Most likely "PROTON" will be just announced in AUGUST but pre-orders will start in next year. So realistically expect 12 months from now on.
Wait time for current photon is around 2 months after payment. If they add another 4th motor to their portfolio then expect even more than 10 weeks for delivery!
 
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Bengy22 said:
Those temperature readings are certainly interesting, only a 6c ambient and already 71c. Iirc cyc has the temp set to rollback at 120c, so yeah give it some summer weather in the mid 30's and that's motor is going to get quite hot. It should be noted that Captain was running the default 1000w max mode for Canada, although I'm not sure what power mode or the average wattage was. Seems my original concerns when the motor not being able to handle the 2000w max claim and that it wouldn't really poach any bbshd customers was valid. But I have warmed up a lot to the motor though, but I still think its priced high for what it is.

Cyc allegedly has the "proton" in the works if you believe a random person in the HV discord who claims to have received email conformation. In this alleged email it will have 3500w max and be released in August but knowing cyc's time frame history who knows for sure but it certainly sounds interesting.
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I'll through out another Photon temperature data set I collected on an approx. two-minute duration high-speed run on level ground in 60F/15C ambient air: motor core temperature climbed to and held 178F/81C, the controller 99F/37C, with an indicated, but not GPS verified speed approx. 31MPH/50KPH. Once I backed off and dropped the speed to the low twenties MPH, the core temp quickly dropped to 145F/62C. Note that I had an airflow rate that maybe the CYC cooling fins can effectively take advantage of.

I don't know what the peak watts draw was.

Motor config: "unlimited" (2000 watts) for the throttle (three levels, set at 500/1200/2000) and left the torque sensing levels stock (400/800/1200).

Bike/rider weight 350lbs/158kilo, with a very upright "barn door" riding position. I was in a 60 gear-inch gear, and might have topped out the motor at a calculated 160RPM/Cadence. The Photon replaced a BBS02, and is definitely faster in the above situation/case.

If the Photon can draw 2000 watts, I doubt it can do it for very long. But I don't think that's how its design was optimized. It's also comparatively high priced, and we'll see if it's reliable.

Can it match my Luna V2 controller-equipped BBSHD motors in raw power - not a chance.

Bring on more motor choices.
 
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Atak_Snajpera said:
Most likely "PROTON" will be just announced in AUGUST but pre-orders will start in next year. So realistically expect 12 months from now on.
Wait time for current photon is around 2 months after payment. If they add another 4th motor to their portfolio then expect even more than 10 weeks for delivery!
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Well this thread was started in August so maybe if they announce it in August it will follow the same timeline so early 2024 when it hits consumer hands, never know. Hopefully cyc will start to get the timeframes sorted by then though that wait time sucks.

ncmired said:
I'll through out another Photon temperature data set I collected on an approx. two-minute duration high-speed run on level ground in 60F/15C ambient air: motor core temperature climbed to and held 178F/81C, the controller 99F/37C, with an indicated, but not GPS verified speed approx. 31MPH/50KPH. Once I backed off and dropped the speed to the low twenties MPH, the core temp quickly dropped to 145F/62C. Note that I had an airflow rate that maybe the CYC cooling fins can effectively take advantage of.

I don't know what the peak watts draw was.

Motor config: "unlimited" (2000 watts) for the throttle (three levels, set at 500/1200/2000) and left the torque sensing levels stock (400/800/1200).

Bike/rider weight 350lbs/158kilo, with a very upright "barn door" riding position. I was in a 60 gear-inch gear, and might have topped out the motor at a calculated 160RPM/Cadence. The Photon replaced a BBS02, and is definitely faster in the above situation/case.

If the Photon can draw 2000 watts, I doubt it can do it for very long. But I don't think that's how its design was optimized. It's also comparatively high priced, and we'll see if it's reliable.

Can it match my Luna V2 controller-equipped BBSHD motors in raw power - not a chance.

Bring on more motor choices.
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Always good to have more data points, that's not bad though holding steady at 81c. And as a fellow luna v2 user I doubt even the rumored proton will match the power. But you're right more choices is good and drives innovation, for too long bafangs been sitting on old designs with no real updating to features requested, if they start getting their sales poached maybe they will get off their ass
 
bafang is investing in frame-integrated market . chinese manufacturers are here but they sell on their market so they don't have to worry about eu/us regulations
 
icpart said:
Interesting motor but to heavy compared to Photon. 5.8kg vs 4.5kg for full kit.
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Yes ,but this should be a lot more powerful,and with 1:40 gear ratio it should be difficult to overheat.I belive Photon is a weak easily overheated motor
 
pxl666 said:
bafang is investing in frame-integrated market . chinese manufacturers are here but they sell on their market so they don't have to worry about eu/us regulations
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Sure but they still haven't even updated the bbshd's brother the m620, which just like the bbshd could benefit from them. I mean there's companies like innotrace who's main thing is selling a m620 but with their upgraded controller for higher power, smoother, more customizable, efficient riding so clearly there's a market. Bafang from what I can tell right now wants to stick within the legal low power motor market to I assume get more associated with the bigger name brand emtb crowd while leaving the diy crowd behind :(
 
Bengy22 said:
Sure but they still haven't even updated the bbshd's brother the m620, which just like the bbshd could benefit from them. I mean there's companies like innotrace who's main thing is selling a m620 but with their upgraded controller for higher power, smoother, more customizable, efficient riding so clearly there's a market. Bafang from what I can tell right now wants to stick within the legal low power motor market to I assume get more associated with the bigger name brand emtb crowd while leaving the diy crowd behind :(
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yes , it seems so . even their approach to not to user-change much with besst seems stupid for their enthusiasts
 
cresny said:
Weird, looking at the manual it would appear that the default is "clockwise" but upon reset mine shows "anti-clockwise". Not sure what to make of it. Does this mean that I can ride backwards in time? :)
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Just be careful, the flux capacitor may not be replaceable...
 
Bengy22 said:
How do you know for sure, I have a bbshd and it works with my boost frame and that motor looks similar
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How's the chainline? On my bike with BBS a small chainring would be required just to clear the chainstays, and then the chainline moves a long way outboard of the larger dished chainrings. So technically the motor will bolt on (Tongshen won't) but isn't 100% functional.
 
hindesite said:
How's the chainline? On my bike with BBS a small chainring would be required just to clear the chainstays, and then the chainline moves a long way outboard of the larger dished chainrings. So technically the motor will bolt on (Tongshen won't) but isn't 100% functional.
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Oh yeah forgot the chainline would get bad if I went to a small one with no offset, currently it's fine and I can hit all gears but I am running a stock 46t. Good observation!
 
Bengy22 said:
Oh yeah forgot the chainline would get bad if I went to a small one with no offset, currently it's fine and I can hit all gears but I am running a stock 46t. Good observation!
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I've fitted the Photon and the chainring is within 1.5 - 2.0mm of the SRAM DUB chainring originally fitted. Close to perfect and a good job by CYC.
 
Can anyone who has the motor tell us what continuous power level will overheat the motor? I like to ride at about 1100w output, up lots of hills for extended distances (10-30km). How long can the Photon keep up that kind of output without overheating?
 
It will overheat very quickly at constant ~1kW in spring/summer temps (>20C). At 750W motor reaches 70C at 6C ambient temp just after few km.
This motor should be treated as 500W nominal motor. Besides I don't think it will last long mechanically if you are going to abuse it at such high power levels.
 
yantra yatra said:
Can anyone who has the motor tell us what continuous power level will overheat the motor? I like to ride at about 1100w output, up lots of hills for extended distances (10-30km). How long can the Photon keep up that kind of output without overheating?
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If you can wait for the expected "Proton" in August to be announced, will be better suited for your power requirements for summer weather
 
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