'lightest.bike' 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

[nervagon]

 

[nervagon]

 

[nervagon]

 

[bedesign]

"And my throttle bug is reproducible from cold start"
- that's craysy, (if the other motor is off and not interfering)

And so is my inability to update - so thank you for confirming it
should be possible. I will make a final test far from this
congested radio neighborhood before engaging Bikee.

From the manual:
"The motor update can only be activated by the Bikee Bike Company through a special QR code. If your motor is ready for a firmware update you will receive a notification from the app, only then can you perform the update. Please don't contact Bikee Bike to request a QR update code, your request is USELESS because if the app don't send you the notification it mean that your motor is not ready"

"Can anyone else confirm if their pinion gear has loose mating to their splined output shaft?"
I have to to retract my previous report on the supposed 'stable' pinion gear -
After running >10 Km, it started to wiggle and caused a nasty chain derailment.
(forgetting go add threadlocker got it started I think)
I will test more modifications and report if it was sucsessful after
longer test.

But one can already confirm it is really important that the pulleys
must be precisely aligned with its nearest chain wheel.

 

[neptronix]

Interesting, i have a QR code to update my firmware to allow for dual chainring mode. I'm awaiting 1 last part ( today/tomorrow ) to complete my build, which allows me to mount the battery. You should hear from me this week on whether i have the bug and whether the firmware update fixes it.

 

[nervagon]

 

[nervagon]

 

[nervagon]

 

[neptronix]

..still working on the drivetrain of my recumbent and hit a snag with the stock gearing and offsets..

I put the bikee freewheel spider on these cheap 15 ebay threaded cranks and it now spins totally true.
Easy fix for the out of true issue with the bikee cranks.

 

[rivers]

I put the bikee freewheel spider on these cheap 15 ebay threaded cranks and it now spins totally true.
Easy fix for the out of true issue with the bikee cranks.

Do you have a link for the ebay cranks?

 

[neptronix]

Do you have a link for the ebay cranks?

170mm Threaded Square Taper Crank Set for Front Freewheel | eBay

Beware that these pedals have ~50% more outward offset in them than the bikee cranks which are more straight than regular crank arms. You might want to counter-compensate by using a narrower BB.

 

[Chalo]

170mm Threaded Square Taper Crank Set for Front Freewheel | eBay

Wow, those are crazy cheap and they look pretty good.

 

[rivers]

170mm Threaded Square Taper Crank Set for Front Freewheel | eBay

Thanks, the cranks look good.
Question: Did you have trouble unscrewing the Bikee right crank from the freewheel? I found that after the bike is ridden for a while the threaded fit gets very, very tight and hard to loosen. Even with a 4-prong spanner tool to fit the freewheel it is extremely difficult to loosen.

 

[bedesign]

Aluminum(as you say) bonds to other metals on an almost atomic level.
I use the CRC grease KP2 N-30 to limit the attraction
It stays active for decades

 

[nervagon]

 

[neptronix]

Yeah, decent quality

Thanks, the cranks look good.
Question: Did you have trouble unscrewing the Bikee right crank from the freewheel? I found that after the bike is ridden for a while the threaded fit gets very, very tight and hard to loosen. Even with a 4-prong spanner tool to fit the freewheel it is extremely difficult to loosen.

I still haven't got my kit up and running so it was easy to get removed with a 4 prong spanner.

The problem with the bikee cranks is definitely the square taper interface

 

[bedesign]

Agree,
neptronix said -
"I put the bikee freewheel spider on these cheap 15 ebay threaded cranks and it now spins totally true"

This confirms the the Bikee spider and the square taper/shaft is good,
but the crank arm is the problem.
(as I reported too)

 

[rhauff]

Replying to myself here with a possible explanation knowing how Bikee operates.

They likely did not 'update' the firmware to allow for dual-chainrings. I bet you that in-frame, under-frame, and dual-chainring are 3 separate firmwares! This goes against standard conventions, but I'm thinking that is the situation.

Wait... I hope your not serious that in-frame and under-frame are 2 separate firmwares! Why would they be? It looks like they just provide a different torque sensor arm for the in-frame mount and nothing else should be different from the motor/control perspective.

 

[nervagon]

 

[maiz]

So the medium mounts don’t have enough chain wrap. I dropped the chain twice while climbing off-road in low gear.

I guess the lower chainring pulley is a necessity. But mounting it won’t be easy. I am using 2 left-side mounts so I don’t have the rails to attach the pulley arm to.

Another positive surprise, but it makes sense, is that the human watts input reading on the Photon remains accurate after adding the Bikee motor. The human watts reading on the Bikee is of course now the combined human + photon input.

Another issue is that I am not using the wheel sensor in the Bikee, as it is unnecessary clutter in this case… so the display will time out during a ride thinking it is not in use. I wonder if there is a timeout setting I can change.

Also, as far as noise of the Bikee motor, 300W is the sweet spot. Below that sounds worse, and above that sounds worse. At steady 300W the motor noise is tolerable. I need to test this with the photon powered off to make sure that it’s not just the harmonics blending best at that output.

The throttle on the photon was always meh, but now it’s wild to hit the throttle and have a whole 2nd motor spin up with serious punch. Now, rather than overheating the photon, throttle gives it relief.

Is the photon dead weight? It is still the far quieter motor with better torque sensing. Sometimes quiet is more important than raw power. The perfect mid drive would be the best elements of these 2 drives combined.

Is this dual mid drive build silly? Kind of, yes. But also it’s kind of awesome. The Bikee display boots pretty fast, so you can actually ride with it off, and quickly turn it on during a long climb. It will boot right to the PAS level it was on previously and start to work. And because the Bikee is so light, and just needs power and display cable to run, it is a practical auxiliary motor.

Maybe it would be better to pair the Bikee with a hub drive on my cargo bike. That would give the benefits of a hub combined with climbing power of the Bikee. In my experiment, the photon only needed 300W of assistance to prevent it from overheating and drastically throttling down. But with 29” wheels, adding a hub drive to assist the photon would be pretty inefficient and add more weight than the Bikee.

It would be interesting to "pair" hubs with mid drives in a methodical manner. Like evaluate the strengths of particular hubs and identify best mid drive pairs. eg: for 20" wheeled cargo bikes all axle rear hub with bikee lightest; for speedy flatlands, photon with sx2, etc.

 

[Gruesome]

A few questions:
What is the Q factor with a BB86 (41mm shell diameter press fit, 86mm width) bracket?
Can I use this device with an external 48V 1kWh battery?
How does warranty service work in the US?
Are there dealers with service centers, like for Cycmotor?

 

[neptronix]

Take your usual Q factor and add 3mm on the right pedal.
This is one of the few mid drives that uses normal bottom brackets.

Warranty service? i imagine you have to send it to italy or receive parts and service it yourself.

No dealers here afaik, i think it's a company of 2 people who sell this.

 

[Gruesome]

Take your usual Q factor and add 3mm on the right pedal.
This is one of the few mid drives that uses normal bottom brackets.

Warranty service? i imagine you have to send it to italy or receive parts and service it yourself.

No dealers here afaik, i think it's a company of 2 people who sell this.

+3mm only? That would be really nice. How much does it move the chain ring out? From the user manual it seems two 6mm plates are added on the drive (right) side outside of the BB shell, and the chain ring and the chain would have to clear those plates. On my Shimano BB the large chain ring is about 2mm out from the edge of the BB shell (chain line is about 45mm from centerline of frame), I think the motor mount will make this at least 10mm worse. Still, not too bad if that is all. I couldn't find a drawing with dimensions (or a scale) for the installation. I did find the side views (with 100mm scale) for the different mounts, and the front view (with scale) for the motor itself, but no drawing for how the mount attaches to the bottom bracket.

Unfortunately, according to page 21 of the user manual, it seems the BB86 press fit adapter is one piece, with a relatively large (close to 41mm) center diameter, so that will not work for the Canyon Roadlite 6 frame. On my bike the frame shell for the BB has a few protrusions from welds and a screw mounting boss inward, and there is an overall taper to the shell. The Shimano BB is a three part device, with the central tube main OD only 27mm, and 32mm at the O-ring seals, so 32mm is guaranteed to fit through the shell, but probably not more than 34mm.

 

[neptronix]

All the mounting hardware will allow the driveline can be adjusted so it's +/- 1mm within stock. You can shift the drive ( and the drive gear ) left and right.

Too bad about the BB!

 

[Gruesome]

All the mounting hardware will allow the driveline can be adjusted so it's +/- 1mm within stock. You can shift the drive ( and the drive gear ) left and right.

Too bad about the BB!

Thanks for the reply, neptronix! I don't think the chain ring can be moved over the mounting plate or plates; I'm pretty sure it needs to run outboard of those, since those plates run all the way to the motor, at a larger diameter than the chain ring. Still, that's just of order 10mm. But the BB is a no-go, unfortunately.