'lightest.bike' 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

[neptronix]

..some codes i had to scan later..

.. i have working pas, but it's crap so far, it runs the motor for a few more seconds once i'm done pedaling. I've attempted to tune it to no avail. Without an ebrake handle, this is possibly unsafe.
Tried all settings to tune the PAS to not do this to no avail.
No working throttle still.

Back to tech support!

I can see the argument for it being too loud to be stealth. It's about 10 decibels above my 'is stealth enough' threshold though.
The noise does primarily sound like gear noise.
The controller has the characteristic whine of an oldschool RC controller.

I'd like to try acoustic material on it. I'm lucky to have the advantage of a higher rate of airflow on this more aerodynamic bike.

Route 1 is to cover the sides of the motor with this material, choking off half the airflow.

Route 2 is to break the warranty and use a VESC and stuff the controller hole with some kind of acoustic material that's thermally resistant enough to survive.

..but let's get the motor working first!

 

[nervagon]

 

[Gruesome]

Is the overrun behavior the same when there is actual load on the drive? The upside down test is with zero load; the controller might put out minimal current, but with no load you can't tell that.

 

[neptronix]

Is the overrun behavior the same when there is actual load on the drive? The upside down test is with zero load; the controller might put out minimal current, but with no load you can't tell that.

Just tried adding a load with the brake.
Can still hear the controller pushing power but the motor is stalled out with the brake quite easily.
So it's a lower power level it continues to push for those 2 seconds but still, in real world riding this will result in me stalling the motor under load at every rapid stop and motor thermals will suffer.

"deceleration ramp" setting doesn't tame that overrun?

good luck.

All turned to 0.

 

[Gruesome]

Two seconds seems a long time. Can you add a brake sensor cutout? Or is that already installed? Or no place to install?
On the other hand, at low power the heat going into the motor should also be very small, so maybe this is the best one can do, as compromise between responsiveness and smoothness.

I thought a bit about human and motor torque, and I don't think you want the motor to mimic the pedal torque every rotation. Ideally the motor would fill in the holes between the pedal torque peaks (at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock pedal position), and for that it has to overrun about half a turn. Maybe there needs to be a detector (like a differentiator) for abrupt stop of pedaling; brake sensor might be best, because a differentiator would also amplify noise.

 

[Gruesome]

Sorry, stupid question: PAS literally is 'pedal assist system' or 'sensor', but in standard use it means cadence sensor, and excludes torque sensing, correct?
Assuming this is correct: How many magnets are in this cadence sensor? Maybe that could be upgraded so it measures more often per revolution, and can sense pedaling changes quicker?

 

[neptronix]

Update, i finally hooked up the wheel speed sensor and the 2 seconds of power is now 0.5 seconds of power.

The issue has been downgraded from unacceptable to a little annoying

 

[neptronix]

Sorry, stupid question: PAS literally is 'pedal assist system' or 'sensor', but it means cadence sensor, and excludes torque sensing, correct?

Yes

Can you add a brake sensor cutout? Or is that already installed? Or no place to install?

Installable but didn't come with the unit, i have to buy it separately and wait some weeks.

I thought a bit about human and motor torque, and I don't think you want the motor to mimic the pedal torque every rotation. Ideally the motor would fill in the holes between the pedal torque peaks (at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock pedal position), and for that it has to overrun about half a turn. Maybe there needs to be a detector (like a differentiator) for abrupt stop of pedaling; brake sensor might be best, because a differentiator would also amplify noise.

I would honestly rather use throttle than having to deal with gear sensors, wheel sensors, and a PAS sensor. I'm settling with this for now!

 

[nervagon]

 

[bedesign]

I wrote before regarding shaping the rear chain guide rod:

"Never use a gas burner - it will ignite, which is impossible
to extinguish.
The metal is possibly magnesium with a low content of alloy"

I now tested a 2 mm piece of my replaced rear chain guide rod for
the risk of ignition while heating it to a bright red color,
Well, it didn't burn at all !
So I lower the warning to no or low risk.

 

[neptronix]

Good news: i was missing the superhero pack, was given codes, throttle works now, and i can unlimit the speed.
Bike hits 43mph unloaded with the throttle in the middle gear; so my gearing is too tall out the gate.

Bad news: the battery to motor plug has been loose for quite some time; i've probably had to reconnect it 15 times while hooking this motor up. Today i made the mistake of hooking it in with the wrong polarity and saw a loud pop at the connector.

The battery and motor cable survived, looks like the unit didn't.
Connections were cleaned with isoproply alcohol.
The screen lit up temporarily when turning it on afterwards.

There is no keying or indication on the unit of which of the 3 combinations of position are correct, if the plug is loose and the cover isn't on and you're messing with it, the probability you'll make this mistake is high.

Back to tech support!

 

[nervagon]

 

[bedesign]

Just to avoid a specification mistake, if someone order the MT-plug from
another source -
This cable-end power plug is a MT60-F
--
@neptronix said:
"the battery to motor plug has been loose for quite some time"

I myself noticed it takes more force to push it seated
than one thinks is healthy for a circuit board,
if it's directly soldered?
i.e. people might hesitate to push strongly enough.

 

[neptronix]

I totally re bent the pin and cleaned it etc.

Let's see what repair costs look like.

The only positive thing i have to say is at least we have 3 pins coming out of the case which could be easily repurposed as phase leads for the motor.

 

[nervagon]

 

[nervagon]

 

[rhauff]

My understanding was that the 3rd pin was dead...

Victor confirmed to me last Aug by email

Is the 3rd pin on the MT60 power connector attached internally in the motor?

No, we use only + and -

In theory that means that even if you rotated the connector 120 degrees incorrectly, it just wouldn't make contact. Maybe the the MT60-M simply cracked loose from the pcb? Either way, repair is needed.

Lesson is probably to make a tail to external XT60 or some such and make 1 carefully aligned connection to motor with the MT60 and leave it.

 

[neptronix]

Yes, it should have came with XT60 or XT90 out the gate.
If repaired and i'm not using an external controller, i'll solder wires to a XT90 harness onto the pins.

 

[nervagon]

 

[neptronix]

Nothing yet, usually takes a day or two for them to get back to me.

 

[t-hus]

Just completed setup of my 1000W Superhero package and took it for a short ride. Mounting (in-frame) to a titanium S7 worked out nicely (though I did make some hardware substitutions). Coming off a BBSHD, the PAS, Q factor and weight all seem great so far. Definitely makes some noise. Hopeful that either it quiets down or I get used to it. I currently have a 12speed setup. Chain is riding fine on the pinion with a Sram chain. It did not work with a KMC. Thinking that -if I continue working with this setup- I will put fewer cogs and a heavier chain on the bike. Battery is from another bike, and was taped onto a rear rack for the test ride. Will need a more permanent solution before going far. Questions:

1) I am looking at EM3ev 52V Jumbo shark batteries, and there are two options, 13.8AH for controllers up to 50A, and 17.0AH for controllers up to 30A. Would someone please advise on which of these (or some other battery) would be most appropriate?

2) I have seen a picture somewhere (perhaps on this forum?) of a 3 speed cassette. Does anyone know about these? 7 speeds would probably be more than enough gears if I can come up with a combination of spacers and cogs that works. Is 7 speed chain the strongest (after BMX chain)?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[neptronix]

em3ev makes a king shark 19.5ah 52v battery, i think a 17ah would be fine but 13.8AH maybe too small if you plan to really use the power of this drive.

3 speed BMX cassette doesn't seem to exist!

Shimano makes some newer chains and cogs designed for ebike duty - look into it!

edit: this is what i'm talking about:

 

[pablomatt]

Good morning. Let me introduce myself, I am Pablo from Argentina. I am looking to convert a full suspension bicycle. After reading the post for more than 3 hrs.The lightest engine has everything I need. under weight and easy to adapt Any battery.
My only question To the users of this engine is how reliable it is long term...how many km have they done? It would be complicated send it for service or repair.

 

[bedesign]

Good morning. Let me introduce myself, I am Pablo from Argentina. I am looking to convert a full suspension bicycle. After reading the post for more than 3 hrs.The lightest engine has everything I need. under weight and easy to adapt Any battery.
My only question To the users of this engine is how reliable it is long term...how many km have they done? It would be complicated send it for service or repair.

Welcome to the group!

I have now done >200Km without any new problems.
The engine sound is now a little quieter.

By only assisting with the motor when going upphill
with conservative power levels ≤3 (from 6 choices),
a full charge lasted 180Km.

I will now mostly keep the battery SOC at
~40 to 70% to minimise wear.

In case anything needs to be changed -
see also all my previous feedback and
others ev. later upcomming input.

 

[neptronix]

People have only had their hands on them for about a year and there have been maybe 200 sold, it's going to be hard to find experience. At least we have someone who rode theirs a bit --^

The firmware can be updated and changed remotely but the unit would probably have to go back to Italy for most repairs RN.