Blue Dream: Maxarya Ray 2 Semi Recumbent w/high eff mid drive

[Luric]

After owning your Maxarya bike for 4 years, do you still like it? Would you recommend this bike without any modification for someone who want a CLWB?

I own an HP Velotechnik Spirit and was thinking to change for a Maxarya but I am really not sure after reading your post…

 

[neptronix]

Hi, sadly i only have ~50 miles on it because it was a ton of problems out of the box.

Negative:

1. The built in locbuster folding mechanism would not stay in place.. i had to buy custom parts to remove it since it as a safety hazard for your handlebars to be moving outside of your control..
2. I could not reach the standard handlebars with the seat moved back. I had to chose cruiser handlebars that put the handlebars an entire 8 inches back. This is pretty bad considering i have proportionally long arms compared to the average person. We can say that some things about the geometry are wrong.
3. The aluminum front fork is miserable, the front wheel will transmit all kinds of vibration/shock to the handlebars, and make tons of noise while doing so.
4. The BB is in a suboptimal position.. if it were moved forward and up, it would help solve the reach problem and allow a suspension fork to be used. A huge missed opportunity in improving the design.
5. For whatever reason the bike is quite slow on flat ground.
6. No real 'tail' on the frame means that you can't carry anything on the back unless it's hanging off the seat, which is not advisable.. this bike has poor storage capabilities and will require ingenuity to carry anything.

Positive:

1. A large size is available.
2. Generally uses standard bike components, so easy to modify.
3. Nice aesthetics.
4. 20" front wheel instead of a 16" wheel as on most CLWBs.. less chance to get a small front wheel stuck in a pothole sending you flying, lol.
5. Currently still produced and customer support from the company is fairly good.

If i wasn't able to modify the bike significantly i would be extremely unhappy with it, mainly the front end.

 

[Luric]

What do you think about this video? This guy did a review just after buying it and he seems very happy with his Ray 2. Is it the same model as yours?

I have also seen this rack installed on a Ray 1 (see photo in attachment). It might resolved your storage problem…

 

[neptronix]

Same model as mine but older.
That rear rack looks like it has almost no support. I imagine it hangs off the seat. not good.

I live in the high desert where the pavement surface is awful everywhere. The NVH of any bike is really bad out here. But the Maxarya Ray 2 in stock form was the worst i've ever experienced.

 

[Papa]

 

[Papa]

 

[neptronix]

So here's the deal.

I tried mounting the mid drive on the front, and didn't like how it sits. There's also some awkwardness involved with the BB shell that holds the eccentric bottom bracket, that would require spacers to cure which i don't have.

It's a bummer because this would be beneficial for weight distribution, but not the end of the world because the battery will sit forward of it in some way.

If i mount to the middle BB on the bike, i skip a chain reduction.. and with the inframe mount, i can fit a 62T sprocket, no problem.. so i have a great range of adjustability here.. and it might be possible to retain 2 of the 3 middle gears this system supported. That could make this a 16 to 24 gear system.



The dual chainring system on the lightest does open up a lot of possibilities... this should be an interesting build!

 

[maiz]

So here's the deal.

I tried mounting the mid drive on the front, and didn't like how it sits. There's also some awkwardness involved with the BB shell that holds the eccentric bottom bracket, that would require spacers to cure which i don't have.

It's a bummer because this would be beneficial for weight distribution, but not the end of the world because the battery will sit forward of it in some way.

If i mount to the middle BB on the bike, i skip a chain reduction.. and with the inframe mount, i can fit a 62T sprocket, no problem.. so i have a great range of adjustability here.. and it might be possible to retain 2 of the 3 middle gears this system supported. That could make this a 16 to 24 gear system.

View attachment 353332

The dual chainring system on the lightest does open up a lot of possibilities... this should be an interesting build!

In this configuration I think you might be sacrificing its torque sensing capabilities.

 

[neptronix]

In this configuration I think you might be sacrificing its torque sensing capabilities.

Yep.

 

[neptronix]

It's looking like i need a 22T BMX freewheel and to cut the lightest bike crank off to turn the freewheeling crank into a nub.

Chainline alignment is improved considering the wider front BB because the lightest crankset has more of an outward offset than the sprocket holder that came with the bike, not bad.

I think i could keep 2 of the middle gears and have a 20 speed mid drive this way, which would be great because recumbes are so tough to pedal up hills.

 

[neptronix]

Got another email back from maxarya about still being in business ( great to hear )

 

[neptronix]

Got confirmation from the bikee boys that my freewheel configuration will work.
Ordered a cheapo threaded freewheel crankset to replace the bikee crankset and a 22T ACS freewheel. Should allow me to keep the stock gearing up front. Nice

Have the electrical wiring bits all sorted. I just have to figure out how to make a battery platform for the front of the bike.

The width of the front bar measures 45-45.6mm dependong on the spot i'm clamping.
I think 3x of these clamps, with some added thin rubber, and super long bolts, with some aluminum plate, could produce a very strong front battery holder. Still searching to see if there's anything better.

 

[Papa]

Would this suffice? - Inside diameter 1-51/64 in (approx 45.6mm)

https://www.grainger.com/product/4MWE5?gucid=N:N:FPL:Free:GGL:CSM-1946:tew63h3:20501231

 

[neptronix]

unfortunately not, scroll a bit up to see what the frame's main tube looks like

 

[neptronix]

Whew, what a score those 45.7mm mounts were, the bike's cables narrowly avoid them and the gap is within 1mm, allowing me to add some rubber and preserve the frame from scratches.



I'm over the moon that these clamps worked out. The 22T freewheel should be here monday!

 

[Guerney]

For whatever reason the bike is quite slow on flat ground.

How fast do you want to go? What's the largest size chainwheel you can fit centrally? If a Bafang BBS01B will fit, with tuning 36V X 20A = 720W is very likely to drive a large chainwheel. My 20" wheeled folding bike conversion climbs any hill with 52T to 32T, and provides enough speed on flat road 52T>11T. It also drags 90kg (combined weight of trailer and cargo) bicycle trailers up those steep hills + 94.1kg combined weight of myself and my bike = 184.1kg. It's difficult to tell by the photos if a Bafang BBS01B motor will fit. If the BikeeBike doesn't do the job, deffo consider trying to install a BBS01B.

 

[neptronix]

I'd like to do 35-40mph. I think the lightest is easily capable of that. Gearing is no problem for this bike, because i have two reduction stages. Gearing is a nightmare on my 26"/24"er and that's why the lightest bike mid drive

This build is currently on hold while i get Mini Hiryuu finished.

 

[Guerney]

I'd like to do 35-40mph.

If that motor doesn't work out, I think a BBSHD might be worth looking into. Very customisable firmware on BBSXXX motors, the usual configurators work well, and there's a relatively new OSF firmware replacement project I'm sure you're aware of. Sadly the latter is not compatible with the BBS01B

BBS-FW: Open Source Firmware for BBSHD/BBS02 Controller

This open source project is finally ready for release! This firmware is intended to replace the original Bafang firmware on BBSHD/BBS02 motor controllers and can be flashed using the standard programming cable. Almost all functionality of original firmware has been reimplemented and additional...

endless-sphere.com

 

[neptronix]

I really don't want a BBSHD, i'd rather go to hubs at that point. 82-83% efficiency, the weight, and the huge Q factor are all non-negotiables for me.

A month with a BBS02 gave me knee problems so severe i had to do 6 months of physical therapy to walk proper again. What happened is that it disbalanced my leg muscles. That's the first and last time i will consider a mid drive that forces you to pedal like a duck.

If the lightest doesn't work out then i'm going DD hub motor because the 20" wheels afford me the torque to climb the nastiest of mountains out here without overheating.

10% grade climbing scenario:



Flat land scenario:



This motor would have the same weight as the BBSHD but beat it in every other metric, especially durability.

Now if we were talking about larger wheel s then i may still consider an alternate mid drive, but a suitable one other than the lightest has yet to materialize.

 

[Guerney]

A month with a BBS02 gave me knee problems so severe i had to do 6 months of physical therapy to walk proper again. What happened is that it disbalanced my leg muscles. That's the first and last time i will consider a mid drive that forces you to pedal like a duck.

I haven't encountered this, probably because thanks to firmware finangling, my bike is basically a thottle-less moped activated by ghost pedalling expending zero effort - the last thing I want from my ebike is exercise, I slow jog for that. I arrive via bike at work unsweaty, without needing a shower. I don't care about efficiency.

i'd rather go to hubs at that point.

How wide apart are the rear droputse? Plenty of options if 135mm or a bit more. Does look like it could be a fast bike. I look forward to reading about how this project develops.

Perhaps both a hub and mid-motor driving the same wheel at different times? For your two speed road scenarios. If 500W becomes legal in the UK, I would definitely look into installing a low speed high torque rear hub motor for hill trailer hauling, and increase BBS01B chainwheel size for more speed over flat roads; install two independent "250W" manufacturer rated motor systems on the same bike.

Smarter regulation: proposed changes to legislation for electrically assisted pedal cycles

Seeks views on proposed changes to the regulations on electrically assisted pedal cycles (EAPCs or e-cycles).

www.gov.uk

 

[neptronix]

I haven't encountered this, probably because thanks to firmware finangling, my bike is basically a thottle-less moped activated by ghost pedalling expending zero effort - the last thing I want from my ebike is exercise, I slow jog for that. I arrive via bike at work unsweaty, without needing a shower. I don't care about efficiency.

Ah, well i'm on the opposite end of the spectrum where i pedal 100% of the time and put in serious effort.. it's free exercise and exercise improves my health.. if a mid drive can't be pedaled because the cadence is too high or pedals too far out of biomechanical alignment, i'm just not interested.

How wide apart are the rear droputse? Plenty of options if 135mm or a bit more. Does look like it could be a fast bike. I look forward to reading about how this project develops.

Standard 135mm dropouts on this bike.

Perhaps both a hub and mid-motor driving the same wheel at different times? For your two speed road scenarios. If 500W becomes legal in the UK, I would definitely look into installing a low speed high torque rear hub motor for hill trailer hauling, and increase BBS01B chainwheel size for more speed over flat roads; install two independent "250W" manufacturer rated motor systems on the same bike.

Ya, if i don't get enough power out of the mid drive ( very likely to be the case with hill climbing ) then i'd like to use a front 500w geared hub motor with a very fast winding to occasionally boost the power up.

 

[Guerney]

Ah, well i'm on the opposite end of the spectrum where i pedal 100% of the time and put in serious effort.. it's free exercise and exercise improves my health.. if a mid drive can't be pedaled because the cadence is too high or pedals too far out of biomechanical alignment, i'm just not interested.

Yep, many can't abide Bafang mid-drive high cadence, but it was easy for me to adjust because I used to cycle racing bikes in the 80s, when twiddling (fast cadence) was commonplace - the idea is tendons act as springs, making twiddling more energy efficient. High Q factor is a complaint I've heard about TSDZ2s, and there are alternative cranks available I believe. As for exercise, I'm all for it, just not when pretending to pedal on my way to work.

Ya, if i don't get enough power out of the mid drive ( very likely to be the case with hill climbing ) then i'd like to use a front 500w geared hub motor with a very fast winding to occasionally boost the power up.

Hill climbing is mega easy with my mid-drive, any tarmaced hill. But you need a heck of a lot more speed and appropriate gearing thereof, than I am allowed in the UK, where lawyers sent by insurance companies can sue you for your house, if your illegal bike causes serious injury.

 

[neptronix]

Sorry you live there!

Things are coming along; i have the upsized front sprocket installed and ready to go..



Mechanicals are all hooked up.. thanks to the nearly infinite array of adjustments you can make with the lightest, i have it clearing all 3 chains and lining up extremely well.



I'm over the moon that hooking this to the middle gearing worked.. this way, i'm not taking the friction of 3 chains on the motor, just 2... more efficient ^_^

Now to work on the electrics and finish that battery mount!

 

[Guerney]

Sorry you live there!

I'm not - I've broken bones at only 11mph! The broken bones were mine, unfortunately. Rapidly inflating airbag bodysuits for cyclists is the sensible way forward, enabling us to safely roll and bounce basketball-like over the road and vehicles etc. post-accident.

Whew, what a score those 45.7mm mounts were, the bike's cables narrowly avoid them and the gap is within 1mm, allowing me to add some rubber and preserve the frame from scratches.

In addition I'd consider using nylon between the mounts and the frame, perhaps tyre/tire liner, nylon rim tape, or similar; more wear-resistant than rubber. Perhaps a layer of self-amalgamating rubber tape around the frame for grippiness, nylon over that, then another layer or two of cleaned inner-tube rubber?

What will be the batteried weight of your completed bike? I like the aerodynamic end bar mirrors in the photo above, what are they exactly and who sells them? I use Zefal Doobck II and Zefal Cyclop end bar mirrors, prefer the Dooback because it's a larger mirror which provides a better view. Also, the Dooback quickly clicks into position, the Cyclop requires a lot of fidding about. However, with either, objects are closer than they appear.

 

[neptronix]

I'm not - I've broken bones at only 11mph! The broken bones were mine, unfortunately. Rapidly inflating airbag bodysuits for cyclists is the sensible way forward, enabling us to safely roll and bounce basketball-like over the road and vehicles etc. post-accident.

Sorry to hear it, i've hit the road flying off an upright bike at 20mph and i'm lucky nothing broke, a decade later my left knee cartilage is finally starting to return back to normal, lol.

I wish i didn't need such high speed to traverse my area but when you're stuck in the car lane a large % of time, you need to flow with traffic for it to be a safe experience and temporarily be a slow motorcycle.

In addition I'd consider using nylon between the mounts and the frame, perhaps tyre/tire liner, nylon rim tape, or similar; more wear-resistant than rubber. Perhaps a layer of self-amalgamating rubber tape around the frame for grippiness, nylon over that, then another layer or two of cleaned inner-tube rubber?

Already have rubber cut up for the battery mount, yeah.

What will be the batteried weight of your completed bike?

No idea but i'd say the bike itself was already 40-45lbs due to the added suspension and 3lbs moped tire on the rear. The 'lightest mid drive' is 4lbs and the battery about 11lbs, so it should be 70lbs.

I like the aerodynamic end bar mirrors in the photo above, what are they exactly and who sells them? I use Zefal Doobck II and Zefal Cyclop end bar mirrors, prefer the Dooback because it's a larger mirror which provides a better view. Also, the Dooback quickly clicks into position, the Cyclop requires a lot of fidding about. However, with either, objects are closer than they appear.

It's a cheap one from ebay from a no name brand that doesn't exist anymore.

Closest thing to it:
ROCKBROS Bicycle Mirror Rhombus One Pair Handlebar Rear View Mirror Adjustable | eBay