"seized" stator

[0nelover]

Hay All Y'all,

I hope you and yours are doing swell this holiday season!

I have a used E-wheels trike. It has a Crystalyte H-series rear hub motor with issues. I took the motor apart thinking the bearings were seized up. The bearings are far from pristine and do move freely. However, the stator is unmoveable in the housing appearing to be imobilized by rust. Please advise.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[E-HP]

Pictures might be helpful.

 

[amberwolf]

There are a number of threads with details for rust restoration, some of which are in this list

Search results for query: rust

endless-sphere.com

some of the results in the list are not for motors, but may have applicable information anyway.

 

[0nelover]

Pictures might be helpful.

Hay E-HP,

Okay, sure.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[E-HP]

Wow. Seems like you’ll need to get the stator out to give everything a thorough cleaning, but need to loosen up the rust between the stator and magnets, before popping it out. You could try vinegar to loosen the rust, but don’t use too high concentration since you don’t want the magnet glue to be affected.

 

[0nelover]

There are a number of threads with details for rust restoration, some of which are in this list

Search results for query: rust

endless-sphere.com

some of the results in the list are not for motors, but may have applicable information anyway.

Hello again Mr. amberwolf,

Thanks for the link. It seems an anemic acid like vinegar or Barkeepers Friend or even cola might free things up. Hopefully not frying the wiring in the process.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[0nelover]

Wow. Seems like you’ll need to get the stator out to give everything a thorough cleaning, but need to loosen up the rust between the stator and magnets, before popping it out. You could try vinegar to loosen the rust, but don’t use too high concentration since you don’t want the magnet glue to be affected.

Hay E-HP,

Sounds like a plan.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[Chalo]

That's one the main failures that turns a superficially usable hub motor wheel into recycling in my world. Spun axle with smooshed threads and torn-off cable, g'bye. Axle won't turn with a 10mm wrench because it was left in the rain until dead, sorry to see you go.

I wouldn't waste my time with that. Better to go hunting for another foundling motor that still works.

 

[0nelover]

That's one the main failures that turns a superficially usable hub motor wheel into recycling in my world. Spun axle with smooshed threads and torn-off cable, g'bye. Axle won't turn with a 10mm wrench because it was left in the rain until dead, sorry to see you go.

I wouldn't waste my time with that. Better to go hunting for another foundling motor that still works.

Hay Chalo,

True Dat. Although amazingly the motor was working just less efficient. I only parked it when it was getting hot when driven.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[0nelover]

Hay E-HP,

Sounds like a plan.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

Hay All Y'all,

Subjecting seized stator to full strength (4.5% acidity) organic rice vinegar both sides with a syringe to focus on the crux o' da biscuit and allowing it to settle in for a couple days freed thangs up enough that the gear puller worked to separate frozen parts. I then carefully scrubbed and removed the cRusty bits with a fine guage steel brush. At this point, I am thinking that spray painting the cleaned up surfaces with some high temp rated paint and reassembling the motor is The Way. What do y'all think?

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[E-HP]

Hay All Y'all,

Subjecting seized stator to full strength (4.5% acidity) organic rice vinegar both sides with a syringe to focus on the crux o' da biscuit and allowing it to settle in for a couple days freed thangs up enough that the gear puller worked to separate frozen parts. I then carefully scrubbed and removed the cRusty bits with a fine guage steel brush. At this point, I am thinking that spray painting the cleaned up surfaces with some high temp rated paint and reassembling the motor is The Way. What do y'all think?

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

Good progress. There are several threads using a variety of methods to coat the internals to resist rust:

Hub Motor Rust Protection

Hello Guys, Yes!.. why this is so important.... Well curiously i'm preparing the motor for my 2nd NYX that i'm building for the friends that will visit me... and the reason why i'm actually protecting that future motor, is to avoid exactly the one like a motor i got to repair that at first...

endless-sphere.com

 

[0nelover]

Good progress. There are several threads using a variety of methods to coat the internals to resist rust:

Hub Motor Rust Protection

Hello Guys, Yes!.. why this is so important.... Well curiously i'm preparing the motor for my 2nd NYX that i'm building for the friends that will visit me... and the reason why i'm actually protecting that future motor, is to avoid exactly the one like a motor i got to repair that at first...

endless-sphere.com

Hay E-HP,

After consulting the link you so kindly provided recommended a protective coating, I contacted SPRAYON, pursuing their product EL601
SPRAYON Insulating Varnish: Red, 15.25 oz Container, 421 g/L, Metal, Semi-Gloss. They vend through industrial supply only so I contacted
Grainger @ 1-800-472-4643, and ordered a can.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[amberwolf]

. At this point, I am thinking that spray painting the cleaned up surfaces with some high temp rated paint and reassembling the motor is The Way. What do y'all think?

As long as all the oxidation is neutralized. If it isn't, and there's further oxygen still trapped in there (typically in the form of humidity between laminations, windings, etc), corrosion will continue under the paint.

BTW, if you run into any issues with winding insulation damage, I can recommend CoronaDope; it's a relatively thin liquid that will soak into the windings and help reinsulate them. I've used it to fix a motor that had previously had intermittent shorts to the lamination stack.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

I'm amazed that this motor is still working given how bad the rust situation was.
As amberwolf rightly said, I suggest you make 100% sure there is no remaining rust whasoever on it and in it before painting. The problem is that if rusts gets between the lamination, it will increase their size, which will make the core physically bigger, which will put a great deal of shearing forces onto the windings, leading to failure. I've seen motors that were in better shape than yours fail because of this.

Maybe you can try to dip the stator for a few days in some rust removing chemicals or even use electrolysis. I used electrolysis to remove rust from an old motorcycle tank and it works well. It isn't even difficult to do at all.

Also, make sure you protect the magnets immediately as they are extremely sensitive to rust. I suggest you do that first.

 

[0nelover]

As long as all the oxidation is neutralized. If it isn't, and there's further oxygen still trapped in there (typically in the form of humidity between laminations, windings, etc), corrosion will continue under the paint.

BTW, if you run into any issues with winding insulation damage, I can recommend CoronaDope; it's a relatively thin liquid that will soak into the windings and help reinsulate them. I've used it to fix a motor that had previously had intermittent shorts to the lamination stack.

Hay amberwolf,

I searched up and put the CoronaDope on my Amazon wishlist crossing my fingers that I don't find any insulation damage. So far, close inspection hasn't turned up any obvious shorts. Thanks for the pro tips.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[0nelover]

I'm amazed that this motor is still working given how bad the rust situation was.
As amberwolf rightly said, I suggest you make 100% sure there is no remaining rust whasoever on it and in it before painting. The problem is that if rusts gets between the lamination, it will increase their size, which will make the core physically bigger, which will put a great deal of shearing forces onto the windings, leading to failure. I've seen motors that were in better shape than yours fail because of this.

Maybe you can try to dip the stator for a few days in some rust removing chemicals or even use electrolysis. I used electrolysis to remove rust from an old motorcycle tank and it works well. It isn't even difficult to do at all.

Also, make sure you protect the magnets immediately as they are extremely sensitive to rust. I suggest you do that first.

Hay Dui ni shuo de dui,

Interesting username, beloved. (From the Chinese for "Correct, you are right," correct?),

I intend to make my best effort in rust removal and say prayers over the results. As backup I'm in search of a replacement motor possibly from Grin Tech or maybe an inexpensive generic. Especially considering looming prospect of proposed import tarrifs. Any standout suggestions of contenders would be most welcome.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[Chalo]

Leaf Bike makes probably the best near equivalent to your old motor, with some efficiency improvement and more winding count options. It's their 1500W direct drive model, a development of the original Nine Continent design.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

Hay Dui ni shuo de dui,

Interesting username, beloved. (From the Chinese for "Correct, you are right," correct?),

Yes, indeed, long story behing that weird username, it was a crazy day haha.

Especially considering looming prospect of proposed import tarrifs. Any standout suggestions of contenders would be most welcome.

Yeah better not to wait for too long.
Sorry I can't recommend a specific model as I'm not familiar with bicycle motors, but I suppose QS motor would be great. I'm using their motors for scooters and motorcycles and they can take a lot of power reliably. My oldest one has been bought in 2015 and still kicking. electric Bicycle Motor - electric Bike Motor Kit from QS Motor
I think there have resellers in the US, hopefully it shouldn't be difficult to find

 

[0nelover]

Leaf Bike makes probably the best near equivalent to your old motor, with some efficiency improvement and more winding count options. It's their 1500W direct drive model, a development of the original Nine Continent design.

Hay Chalo,

I appreciate your input.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[0nelover]

Yes, indeed, long story behing that weird username, it was a crazy day haha.


Yeah better not to wait for too long.
Sorry I can't recommend a specific model as I'm not familiar with bicycle motors, but I suppose QS motor would be great. I'm using their motors for scooters and motorcycles and they can take a lot of power reliably. My oldest one has been bought in 2015 and still kicking. electric Bicycle Motor - electric Bike Motor Kit from QS Motor
I think there have resellers in the US, hopefully it shouldn't be difficult to find

Hay Dui ni shuo de dui,

I appreciate your input.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[0nelover]

Hay Dui ni shuo de dui,

I appreciate your input.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

Hay @amberwolf, @Chalo, @Dui ni shuo de dui, & @E-HP,

Many Thanks and Happy Holidays to ALL Y'all for having my back. After through mechanical rust removal with steel wire brush down to the metal I sprayed the stator and hub with the SPRAYON EL-601dielectric paint. As per the data sheet for the product I allowed the paint to cure for seven days and reassembled the motor. Installed the motor and SUCCESS, operation has been restored and I have HUGE grin on my face.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

Hay @amberwolf, @Chalo, @Dui ni shuo de dui, & @E-HP,

Many Thanks and Happy Holidays to ALL Y'all for having my back. After through mechanical rust removal with steel wire brush down to the metal I sprayed the stator and hub with the SPRAYON EL-601dielectric paint. As per the data sheet for the product I allowed the paint to cure for seven days and reassembled the motor. Installed the motor and SUCCESS, operation has been restored and I have HUGE grin on my face.

Thanks for Everything!
0nelover

Great job mate, I really hope for you that it is gonna last.
Don't get your hopes too high though, A friend of mine did something similar but eventually the motor died a couple of years later because the rust came back. I suggest you check at least once a year if possible, and avoid as much as possible to let your bike outside during the night (it leads to condensation inside the motor).
Best of luck and Merry Christmas to you and your family!