Bikeon, "cassette drive" torque sensing motor
- Thread starter adrian783
- Start date
Gruesome
1 kW
Of course I go faster than 30 mph on descents, but 25 mph on the San Gabriel River (not valley; slightly different locations) bike path seems a bit maladjusted as a sustained speed, given the width and the traffic.
The test run was between Los Alamitos and Seal Beach, which is extremely flat except for a few underpasses.
I want to try Turnbull Canyon for the hill test. Without motor that takes me about 45 minutes going up.
The battery is a 48V 15Ah 'Airuxuan' 13s6p from Amazon (advertised as 20Ah, but I measured 15Ah/700Wh), starting at about 47.5V (so about 50% SoC) and ending at 45.5V.
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Gruesome
1 kW
Noise: there is a relatively quiet motor hum, more noticeable when switching to the 45% setting at lower (below 20 mph) speeds, but still not loud (this is of course super subjective). The BikeOn related sounds almost disappear in the wind noise at the 20% setting and 20 mph, except that on top of the hum, more than once a louder whistling sound developed. I thought it was from the belt, and actually stopped and checked for fraying due to contact with something, but didn't find any.
In a phone conversation Aram said that he knows about it, that it goes away on its own when you go faster (i.e. it only happens in a narrow speed range), and that he thinks he knows how to fix it.
I assume it has to do with the phase current waveform, and can be fixed in firmware, but I could be wrong.
Gruesome
1 kW
I wondered about and tried to look for that when passing a few non-motorized bikers, but I wasn't going that much faster, and I didn't see any reactions. Just extrapolating from my own reactions when encountering motorized bike path users, large speed difference when passing and in general, speed inappropriate for the situation, would provoke my ire.
I'll definitely keep watching out for that. The California law on this is pretty clear (as I seem to keep posting...
: 20 mph limit for the motor support on separated bike paths. Of course, local entities (cities, counties, national & state parks, forests and monuments) could set different rules.Congratulations, now I have another thread to follow. I can't believe it is very complex to install, so be interesting to hear just what issues you may have had.
Is the torque sensor just kind of on/off, or does it have some sensitivity?
Gruesome
1 kW
Notes from the BikeOn installation on my Canyon Roadlite 6 gravel/street bike:
The rear of the bike is very top heavy with the 8.8 lbs battery in the rack mounted pack.
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- Six of the eleven sprockets remain useable.
- It's not the interference between the chain and the 11 mm baseplate that sets the last accessible sprocket, but the interference between the derailleur frame and a part of the BikeOn (see picture 2 below).
- To get clearance between the inner BikeOn baseplate and the spokes, I needed to put a 1 mm shim ring behind my Shimano HG700 11speed cassette.
- My spare cassette came with a 1.8 mm spacer ring; that ring is too thick and prevents both the 11th sprocket and the cassette lock nut from properly engaging the hub. Amazon same day to the rescue...
- I readjusted the derailleur limit screws for BikeOn use, since I needed to touch them anyway because of the 1 mm spacer.
- Even with the 1 mm spacer ring, after a while the motor settles in a position where spokes are scraping the baseplate whenever the motor is engaged (i.e. when pedaling). Aram is working on a solution for that.
- As suggested by Aram, I removed the BikeOn torque bracket, that engages the chain stay from below, from its axle, due to interference with the boss that separates the free running and sheathed parts of my derailleur cable.
- That bracket is adjustable lengthwise along the chain stay, but even the most forward position interferes with the cable boss.
- The torque bracket axle is directly pushing against the chain stay, cushioned by one of the extra silicone rubber straps that Aram provided; see picture 3 below.
- The torque bracket axle has a slot that fits perfectly around my derailleur cable.
The rear of the bike is very top heavy with the 8.8 lbs battery in the rack mounted pack.
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You may want to consider https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...t_main.33.2cf01802eBfWps&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa I chose the 48V 7 Ah Samsung (weighs 4 lbs) for my mid drive TSDZ2 and get between 40 to 45 mile range.
raylo32
100 kW
Giving up 5 cogs on an 11-32 cassette might be a little too much, leaving you with a low gear of just18t. With a 30t or 32t small chainring you will probably be OK on some hills as long as they are not too steep. I'll be interested to hear your stats on the canyon climb... grade, length, cadence, speed, etc. I figured we'd only be giving up three which would have left a 22t or maybe 24t low cog, which would for sure be enough for my use case.
raylo32
100 kW
I would do a shark mount battery on the down tube, water bottle on the seat tube, and lose the pump. Put a CO2 inflator in the seat pack.
Chalo
100 TW
You can easily break up the cassette (unless the sprockets are spider mounted) and select only the desired sprockets to fill whatever positions are usable.
raylo32
100 kW
Sure, but the whole point of this drive for me would have been to pop the drive on and off without a lot of other rigamarole so I could ride this bike normal analog or E at will. Don't get me wrong, I do all my own wrenching on my bikes. I just don't want to on this one. First the spacer, then maybe having to rerack the cassette. Plus changing the derailleur stops and re-adjusting the rear shifting for the spacer. Too much trouble to go back and forth. So if I wanted this as an e-bike I might just as well add a mid drive motor. But I'll probably just keep my gravel bike analog.
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spaceman
10 W
The motor power output is up to 750W, depending on the battery you use and whether it is EU or US version.
The max battery current is currently limited by the firmware to around 15A. With 48V battery that means about 810W when the battery is fully charged.
spaceman
10 W
This was the first 11/12 speed installation indeed.
Shorter spacing between the sprockets lead to 5 sprockets unusable. I will post a quick calculation below in the thread to see if it is a lot or not.
spaceman
10 W
The device monitors temperatures and has a protection to prevent damage in extreme heat.
spaceman
10 W
Correct.
spaceman
10 W
The torque sensor is not on/off, it does have a range of sensitivity. That range can be adjusted from the app as well, if needed.
spaceman
10 W
We are working to resolve these issues, they are not complicated. New parts are on order, should arrive soon.
Chalo
100 TW
That's what I'd do. I'm pretty convinced that the same bike can't be similarly good with and without e-power, unless it's bad both ways. Also, switching back and forth between powered and unpowered is a folly I've never seen implemented successfully.
Motorcycles started from bicycles a long long time ago, but they diverged instantly. There was never a time when you could find very similar bikes with and without motors, that were similarly satisfactory.
