Bikeon, "cassette drive" torque sensing motor

[adrian783]

BikeOn - Turn Your Bicycle To A Smart E-Bike In Seconds

BikeOn is a device that turns any bicycle to a smart e-bike in less than 30 seconds. No tools, skills or bicycle modification required.

bikeon.com

this is completely new to me and so bizarre looking. but much more legit than some other vaporware kits ive seen. thoughts?

 

[Chalo]

Mmmm, greasy.

 

[neptronix]

It's sort of like a lightweight geared hub motor but without the shell to protect the grease from becoming contaminated pretty rapidly.

I imagine it would be a huge pain to constantly regrease it

I don't see how a piece of rubber they used as the torque arm could be adequate for holding 750w of power.

$1290 seems high for something that is basically first generation and doesn't look sturdy

 

[Chalo]

It's sort of like a lightweight geared hub motor but without the shell to protect the grease from becoming contaminated pretty rapidly.

I imagine it would be a huge pain to constantly regrease it

It looks to me like the driven "gear" is a belt sprocket and the motor moves an inside-out toothed belt against it. So contamination from the neighboring chain would be an issue, but the unit itself wouldn't need lubricant. And it will of course have some hysteresis and friction losses because rubber + plastic + grime.

 

[neptronix]

My bad!

 

[amberwolf]

Some images as an archive for when the site eventually goes away

 

[spaceman]

Some images as an archive for when the site eventually goes away


View attachment 350575 View attachment 350576 View attachment 350578 View attachment 350579

Why would the website go away eventually?

 

[spaceman]

Hello! My name is Aram and I'm the engineer and inventor behind BikeOn Drive.

Please feel free to ask any questions you might have.

Here's a brief overview:
BikeOn is a lightweight drive, weighing approximately 7 lbs, including the battery pack, and can be easily mounted to any standard bicycle.
The drive features a timing belt which eliminates the need for lubrication and is not affected by mud, water, or other contaminants.
It requires no maintenance and is water-resistant, allowing it to be cleaned with a garden hose or similar methods.

Here are some of the specifications:

• 750W motor
• Up to 55 Nm of torque
• 20-mile range (depending on terrain)

Features include an embedded torque sensor, accelerometer, and gyroscope.
It also comes with a mobile app.

 

[spaceman]

It looks to me like the driven "gear" is a belt sprocket and the motor moves an inside-out toothed belt against it. So contamination from the neighboring chain would be an issue, but the unit itself wouldn't need lubricant. And it will of course have some hysteresis and friction losses because rubber + plastic + grime.

It is not a friction drive, so friction losses are almost nonexistent. It is constructed from aviation-grade aluminum, with no plastic components in the drivetrain.
Cleaning the drive is simple; it can be washed with a garden hose or a similar method. I don’t even remove it from my bike for cleaning—I just use a garden hose to wash both the entire bike and the device.
Here is a short video which shows it:

 

[spaceman]

BikeOn - Turn Your Bicycle To A Smart E-Bike In Seconds

BikeOn is a device that turns any bicycle to a smart e-bike in less than 30 seconds. No tools, skills or bicycle modification required.

bikeon.com

this is completely new to me and so bizarre looking. but much more legit than some other vaporware kits ive seen. thoughts?

My name is Aram and I'm the engineer and inventor behind BikeOn Drive. Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Mongo]

Aram, thanks for joining the discussion. I watched your installation video and saw that the motor clamps around the largest rear cog, and the current cog fitment range appears to be, 25, 28, 30, 32, 34, and 36 (via individually available sized rotors).

Does the derailleur stop screw then need to be readjusted to bypass the largest cog, and does your system work on more modern 9 to 12-speed systems - versus the 6-speed demo bike, which there are lots of around in garages?

 

[rivers]

Dear Aram, Do you have any sound recordings of the powered bike moving along under normal loads? I am interested in quiet operation.

 

[spaceman]

Aram, thanks for joining the discussion. I watched your installation video and saw that the motor clamps around the largest rear cog, and the current cog fitment range appears to be, 25, 28, 30, 32, 34, and 36 (via individually available sized rotors).

Does the derailleur stop screw then need to be readjusted to bypass the largest cog, and does your system work on more modern 9 to 12-speed systems - versus the 6-speed demo bike, which there are lots of around in garages?

Yes, BikeOn works with any number of speeds (sprockets), including 12 speed cassettes.
There is no need to adjust derailleur stop screw: the device has a built in stopper which prevents derailleur from going to much in and eventually hitting the red rotor.

 

[spaceman]

Dear Aram, Do you have any sound recordings of the powered bike moving along under normal loads? I am interested in quiet operation.

Here is a video which shows the noise level:

The device is pretty quiet. One of the reasons is usage of timing belt transmission: it is a low noise, reliable and does not require any lubing or other maintenance.

 

[spaceman]

We have a youtube channel with a lot of videos of the device and question and answer sessions as well:

https://www.youtube.com/@TheBikeOn/featured

And here is our instagram: Login • Instagram

 

[Chalo]

The device is pretty quiet. One of the reasons is usage of timing belt transmission: it is a low noise, reliable and does not require any lubing or other maintenance.

I am a little perplexed by the belt. It has both much tighter bend radii than are customary for toothed belts, and it's being used inside out, so without any of the benefit of capstan effect. And it's quite short relative to the overall system scale. I imagine that all three of these factors significantly shorten the belt's wear life and increase friction and hysteresis losses (which might be low relative to a V-belt, but are much higher than gears or chain even when the toothed belt is used normally).

When you put a rubber belt in proximity to a roller chain, either the belt will be oily or the chain will be dry (unless it's both).

Overall this seems like it would be a good undergraduate project in mechanical engineering, but I'm not surprised we don't see other examples like it.

 

[spaceman]

without any of the benefit of capstan effect

I have to disagree here. The wrap angle is smaller than in usual applications, but the effect is still in play.

rubber belt in proximity to a roller chain

We use very high quality belts, which are not made of pure rubber. Some of the best and expensive bicycles use timing belts-for a reason.

Overall this seems like it would be a good undergraduate project in mechanical engineering, but I'm not surprised we don't see other examples like it.

I appreciate your perspective. There is much more than just a mechanical engineering in this device:
the firmware and the logic behind it, the software (both front and backend), the electronic design, packaging and heat management in such a compact form factor, custom designed and made motor which fits all the requirements and much, much more.

 

[neptronix]

Gotta be honest with you and i hope you can take some productive criticism and do something with it.

This is all based on first impressions.

Pros:
- Probably the highest power density we've seen in any ebike motor.

- Easy to adapt to any bike.

- Easy install, although this is not a significant pain point with ebike drives.

Cons:
- The device looks like a science experiment. I don't have a problem with this but most people will.

- The mounting doesn't look sturdy, i'm wondering if it flexes significantly under load which may affect the longevity of these aluminum parts.

- Exposed transmission looks like it won't be durable in the long run, all parts look proprietary and non-user serviceable. Transmission parts such as the belt are not available on the website. What happens when an errant rock or piece of scrap metal gets in the transmission and destroys multiple parts of it?

- Requires cellphone to operate at full speed, concerned there might be privacy implications due to that. Account creation seems required. Privacy policy on the website only covers the store, not the app. Companies usually force apps on users to enable collecting data on that user and we get no assurances about what data is being collected and what risk this poses when that data is eventually leaked.

- It's competition is a geared motor which can be purchased for $150-$500, so the value proposition isn't very good.

- We asked for a video under load to assess noise, but got a no load test instead ( a condition where the motor will be quieter ). That's concerning because it seems like an attempt to conceal this aspect. On youtube we can hear what partial load sounds like ( bike trainer ), and the drive is relatively noisy. At full load, this will probably be louder.

- Lower stealth factor compared to other alternatives. The big red ring isn't helping. It has the same visual footprint as a mid sized hub motor.

 

[lnanek]

> - Easy to adapt to any bike.

My non-ebike has a Nexus IGH - so only one cog in back. If I have to give that up to the motor, I'd have no where to put the chain I use for pedaling.

 

[neptronix]

> - Easy to adapt to any bike.

My non-ebike has a Nexus IGH - so only one cog in back. If I have to give that up to the motor, I'd have no where to put the chain I use for pedaling.

True, but IGH bikes are pretty rare.

This drive will work on bikes with weird axle sizes that get in the way of using a hub motor, and weird bottom brackets that prevent a mid drive from being added.

This can probably fit the broadest amount of bikes out there.. so i consider this worthy of being on the 'pros' list

 

[spaceman]

Gotta be honest with you and i hope you can take some productive criticism and do something with it.

This is all based on first impressions.

Thank you very much for your detailed comment. I am pleased to address some of your concerns.

- The mounting doesn't look sturdy, i'm wondering if it flexes significantly under load which may affect the longevity of these aluminum parts.

The mounting system includes three robust points, all meticulously calculated and tested across various usage scenarios. I will create and share a video here soon to provide a detailed demonstration of the mounting process.

- Exposed transmission looks like it won't be durable in the long run, all parts look proprietary and non-user serviceable. Transmission parts such as the belt are not available on the website. What happens when an errant rock or piece of scrap metal gets in the transmission and destroys multiple parts of it?

Most bicycle transmissions, including those with belt drives, are exposed. Our product is designed for simplicity and ease of use, and is not intended for DIY servicing. We advise against disassembling it. The compact and lightweight design allows for easy shipping to us for service if needed. To date, we have not encountered incidents of rocks or debris causing damage to the transmission.

- Requires cellphone to operate at full speed, concerned there might be privacy implications due to that. Account creation seems required. Privacy policy on the website only covers the store, not the app. Companies usually force apps on users to enable collecting data on that user and we get no assurances about what data is being collected and what risk this poses when that data is eventually leaked.

U.S. regulations mandate that all e-bikes must stop assistance at 20 mph unless equipped with a speedometer. Therefore, our app includes a speedometer to enable assistance up to 28 mph. We do not collect any personal data, such as real names (you can register under any name or nickname), addresses, phone numbers, or anything similar. The only data the device collects relates to the ride itself, which is necessary to operate the device and provide the user with information about the ride, such as torque sensor data, speed, and accelerometer and gyroscope data. This information cannot be traced back to any specific user.

The device can be used without the phone if you are okay with assistance only up to 20 mph, no option to change the assistance level, and no firmware updates. You only need the app once to register and set the assistance level. After that, you don't have to use the app with BikeOn if you don't want to.

- It's competition is a geared motor which can be purchased for $150-$500, so the value proposition isn't very good.

Users who seriously consider purchasing geared motors for $150-$500 are probably not our target customers. Here's why:
1. BikeOn offers easy removability. Our customers typically do not want to permanently modify their bikes. They seek easy and sometimes temporary solutions that they can use intermittently or interchange with other bikes.
2. Our customers are conscious of the weight they add to their bikes, so they prefer something lightweight like BikeOn.
3. Unlike inexpensive geared motors, BikeOn is made of aviation-grade aluminum and other high-quality materials.
4. For many of our users, smart features and a built-in torque sensor are important—these features are not available with inexpensive geared motors.
5. The device has built-in capability for over-the-air updates, so it always uses the latest of our developments and features, unlike cheaper options.

Most other options that compete with us are either more expensive or are friction drive devices, which, as you probably understand, are inferior to the belt drive.

- We asked for a video under load to assess noise, but got a no load test instead ( a condition where the motor will be quieter ).

I'll make a video under load. I don't have such a video at the moment, but we have nothing to conceal, so I'll make it and post it here shortly. We offer a 14-day return period, no questions asked, so if someone is concerned that the device is loud, it's possible to try and return it. We are not just looking for sales; we are looking for happy customers who will use the device and enjoy it.

I am happy to address any other questions or concerns.

 

[neptronix]

The mounting system includes three robust points, all meticulously calculated and tested across various usage scenarios. I will create and share a video here soon to provide a detailed demonstration of the mounting process.

Ah.. visually i thought it only had 2 mounting points. Look forward to seeing the rest.

Most bicycle transmissions, including those with belt drives, are exposed. Our product is designed for simplicity and ease of use, and is not intended for DIY servicing. We advise against disassembling it. The compact and lightweight design allows for easy shipping to us for service if needed. To date, we have not encountered incidents of rocks or debris causing damage to the transmission.

'not intended for DIY servicing' yet the transmission is exposed is a big problem. At least while a bike transmission is normally exposed, it's designed to be serviced, and most parts are available at the parts counter of a bike shop.

I live in the desert so dust will ruin exposed transmissions at a fairly quick speed. My bike is constantly kicking up little rocks. I would not consider buying this kit unless it had some plastic shields since i can't buy parts for it or service it. It would be way too much of a hassle, especially since i have a shop with all the tools here.

U.S. regulations mandate that all e-bikes must stop assistance at 20 mph unless equipped with a speedometer. Therefore, our app includes a speedometer to enable assistance up to 28 mph. We do not collect any personal data, such as real names (you can register under any name or nickname), addresses, phone numbers, or anything similar. The only data the device collects relates to the ride itself, which is necessary to operate the device and provide the user with information about the ride, such as torque sensor data, speed, and accelerometer and gyroscope data. This information cannot be traced back to any specific user.

Makes sense, consider that most phone applications are built by companies for spying purposes and people are always concerned about privacy of an app. I would make sure to convey that your app isn't a spying device on your website.

Users who seriously consider purchasing geared motors for $150-$500 are probably not our target customers. Here's why:
1. BikeOn offers easy removability. Our customers typically do not want to permanently modify their bikes. They seek easy and sometimes temporary solutions that they can use intermittently or interchange with other bikes.

I've been using geared hub motors for 13 years, installed 7 geared kits, and never had to permanently alter any bike i installed them on.

Today i can buy a 7lbs premium hub motor kit for ~$700 and it will come with a torque arm that's a single bolt install/uninstall. It also has regen. This is your competition.

2. Our customers are conscious of the weight they add to their bikes, so they prefer something lightweight like BikeOn.

I'm probably one of the bigger high power:weight ratio motor fans here. I'm impressed by the lightness of this kit but what would impress me is high efficiency, but efficiency isn't mentioned on the page.

3. Unlike inexpensive geared motors, BikeOn is made of aviation-grade aluminum and other high-quality materials.

Yeah.. this is rarely an issue on geared hubs and kind of a necessity of your design though.

4. For many of our users, smart features and a built-in torque sensor are important—these features are not available with inexpensive geared motors.

This is nice, it's a cool package, but you can get addon torque sensors for a lot of hub motors/mid drives/whatever lately.

5. The device has built-in capability for over-the-air updates, so it always uses the latest of our developments and features, unlike cheaper options.

Yeah i suppose this is a plus.

I'll make a video under load. I don't have such a video at the moment, but we have nothing to conceal, so I'll make it and post it here shortly. We offer a 14-day return period, no questions asked, so if someone is concerned that the device is loud, it's possible to try and return it.

Very reasonable!

We are not just looking for sales; we are looking for happy customers who will use the device and enjoy it.

You have the right attitude

 

[rivers]

Will it work with a 48 volt battery?

 

[rivers]

One of my bikes has a 11-40 cassette. The sprocket next to the 40T is 36T. Can I install the kit on the 36T?

 

[spaceman]

Will it work with a 48 volt battery?

Yes. The working range is 36V to 48V.