Etricycle wheel size stability

Paul_young

100 µW
Joined
Jul 19, 2024
Messages
8
Location
Uk
I'm in the planning stage of an etricycle build in order to extend the rear platform and build a dog box so I can take my Belgian Malinous out on some adventures. I've decided on a trike over a side car or trailer because I want him to be as close to me as possible and a trike allows that( he's going to be connected in at least 2 places via a custom collar I'm going to have made) my only concern is the stability as I've seen a few videos of etrikes being very unstable, would going from a 26 to a 24 inch wheel make a whole lot of difference with lowering the center of gravity? It's going to be powered with a mid drive and a front hub unsure of wattage at this stage I was originally set on dual 48v 1000w units but I'm having a rethink if that's needed or even safe at 30 ish mph. They will rarely be used together only as and when needed, and the hub will make me feel safer if the enrbitable mid drive eats a chain. I've built a handful of bikes including a bbshd, Dual and single hubs so I'm pretty well versed in building various bikes. Thank you for reading.
 
I'm in the planning stage of an etricycle build in order to extend the rear platform and build a dog box so I can take my Belgian Malinous out on some adventures. I've decided on a trike over a side car or trailer because I want him to be as close to me as possible and a trike allows that( he's going to be connected in at least 2 places via a custom collar I'm going to have made) my only concern is the stability as I've seen a few videos of etrikes being very unstable, would going from a 26 to a 24 inch wheel make a whole lot of difference with lowering the center of gravity? It's going to be powered with a mid drive and a front hub unsure of wattage at this stage I was originally set on dual 48v 1000w units but I'm having a rethink if that's needed or even safe at 30 ish mph. They will rarely be used together only as and when needed, and the hub will make me feel safer if the enrbitable mid drive eats a chain. I've built a handful of bikes including a bbshd, Dual and single hubs so I'm pretty well versed in building various bikes. Thank you for reading. I've just come across a video with what looks like the perfect compromise regarding wheel size 24's on the rear and a 26 up front,. The guy was going up and down curbs and across angled drive ways and not once did either rear wheel leave the ground. To me keeping the Back end lower than the front makes a lot of sense.
 
I'm sorry I don't have any expertise on your specific inquiry, but I did want to at least add, have you read through Amberwolf's build thread? I know he went through several iterations for his dog carrier builds, so perhaps you can find some inspiration there.
 
Thank you for that mate, and of course it has to be an Amber wolf build. I remember from my old account linked to a previous email account that was hacked, I'm sure that he's built every idea anyone has had. Lol
 
Typical 'granny' trikes are a very bad idea. Rear track too narrow, CoM dangerously high. And 30mph is guaranteed skin loss.

20" (406) wheels, at least 32" rear track width, and a seat height no more than 20". Take notice of the Hase Trigo, Hase Kettweisels and the Performer Futuro trikes for examples.
 
I'm in the planning stage of an etricycle build in order to extend the rear platform and build a dog box so I can take my Belgian Malinous out on some adventures. I've decided on a trike over a side car or trailer because I want him to be as close to me as possible and a trike allows that( he's going to be connected in at least 2 places via a custom collar I'm going to have made) my only concern is the stability as I've seen a few videos of etrikes being very unstable, would going from a 26 to a 24 inch wheel make a whole lot of difference with lowering the center of gravity? It's going to be powered with a mid drive and a front hub unsure of wattage at this stage I was originally set on dual 48v 1000w units but I'm having a rethink if that's needed or even safe at 30 ish mph. They will rarely be used together only as and when needed, and the hub will make me feel safer if the enrbitable mid drive eats a chain. I've built a handful of bikes including a bbshd, Dual and single hubs so I'm pretty well versed in building various bikes. Thank you for reading.
Hi! Reducing the wheel size from 26 to 24 inches can help lower the center of gravity and improve stability somewhat. However, trike stability problems are often due to design and weight distribution, not just wheel size. Consider a wider wheelbase and make sure the dog box is low and centered. Balancing weight and using quality components for the trike's structure and joints will also improve safety and stability.
 
Typical 'granny' trikes are a very bad idea. Rear track too narrow, CoM dangerously high. And 30mph is guaranteed skin loss.

20" (406) wheels, at least 32" rear track width, and a seat height no more than 20". Take notice of the Hase Trigo, Hase Kettweisels and the Performer Futuro trikes for examples.
Thank you. Funnily enough I was just looking at the 20" options and I have found one with a just under 31" wheelbase and with an upgraded tyre should make it OK. And with a 24" up front with the dogs weight should help a lot. I've got an old bmx lean back seat post knocking about so lowering the seat in conjunction with that and a set of longer cranks should make it better to pedal. I'm only a short ass at 5 foot 8 so for once my shortness might actually aid in something. Lol. Thank you guys..
 
24 inch wheel would help some, but not much. 30 mph is just too fast for any delta trike anyway, and a bit extreme for trailering too. What tends to happen at higher speeds is the trike just won't turn for shit. front turn input just starts flexing the frame instead, and after you hit that tree, you eventually would have made the turn had the tree not been there. But at that speed, likely one of those one back wheel off the ground turns. 15 mph is a good speed for a trike that might need to turn, 20 or 25 if you are assured you wont be needing to turn, including a tiny jog to avoid road debris.

But lose the 30 mph idea, and a dog carrying trike is definitely a win.
 
One idea I never did try with my trikes, was a no pedaling vehicle. I was thinking two slow rpm rear hub motors, 20", and about a 40 inch width in back. All this would have bolted onto the standard schwinn meridian trike. Cargo tray was going to be about 48 inches long, 36 inches wide.
 
I've been having a rethink and a reverse trike is a better option set up like a regular cargo bike with the dog in the middle of the wheelbase. I'm in the process of bidding on a 90cc quad bike so I can use the double wishbone suspension and stearing in more or less one unit, using the seat section of the frame as the rear end in kind of a low rider esque riding position. I've got an enduro rear swing arm somewhere so that's perfect for a 26" 1000w fatty and a pair of 20" fattys up front. Im not worried about any huge speeds, like in the op Im still unsure that 30mph is needed or safe.
 
You might want to peek at my reply in your other thread about the throttle/motor
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/posts/1816198/

Regarding the trike, I also have a dog-carrier/cargo trike, built for St Bernards, so something similar would fit your Malanois easily enough.

The SB Cruiser has had several incremental versions / modificaitons over the years; older pics are first; after the pics is info about other aspects of your potential build.

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Typical tadpole trikes mean you have the wheels under your knees and the cranks out front, in one variation or another. This makes it tough to have any cargo, especialy a wiggly one like a dog. If you put it up front, it's out past the wheels, unsupported, requiring greater mass in back to compensate especially during braking. If you put it in back, you have to stretch out the space between your seat and the single rear wheel, and that wheel must take most of the load of the cargo.

You can alter the trike to put the cargo between you and the front wheels instead, but that means you have to have *all* of you and the cranks, etc, behind the cargo area, and that increases the length of the whole trike more, and changes the way it has to steer, etc.


A delta is probably easier to build for a cargo setup, and is much easier to setup a front suspension (even rear suspension is easier). Depends on your DIY and design experience and skills for whether it's significant or not.

My SB Cruiser is used at 20MPH cruising speed and has no suspension, and works well enough for most of the road conditions--I would *like* suspension but as long as I avoid the worst bumps and holes, then it works fine. I use moped tires on the 20" rear wheels, but only because it was originally designed around a transaxle from a trike kit. If I ever get to build the mk2 version, it will be built like the below:


Regarding wheel size, as long as you keep all the wheels, drivetrain, etc outside the cargo area, you can use any wheelsize you want, with the cargo area (and you) as low as you like for the benefits of lower COG--If you setup the cargo area like my cargo trailer with the bed suspended between the wheels, frame hanging from the axles instead of sitting on them.. The cargo area (and you) can be anywhere over or between the wheels for best load distribution.
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/amberwolfs-flatbed-kennel-trailer-mk-iv.76539/page-2

The mk2 version of SBC would have the cargo area hanging from the rear axles instead, wheels outside the whole frame (even if they are chaindriven from a diff instead of hubmotors in the wheels). The trike I built for my brother uses this technique, but is only meant for very small cargoes. I don't know how well the specific trike would hold up or perform as he never bothered to use it other than a first ride or two, but the hanging-bed design works great for my big cargo trailer (biggest thing so far was a piano).
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/amberwolfs-raine-trike.80951/


If it's helpful, there are several other threads discussing various trike options for cargo and/or dogs if you look around the forum, that go into things in more detail, though I don't have any links directly to them.


These are a pics of the basic frame of the Raine Trike showing the rear frame that allows the cargo area to be lower than the wheel axles, so that larger better-riding wheels can be used and still have a low COG.
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with the deck installed, and the bottom of the completely enclosed box the seat is mounted to the lid of (similar to the one on SBC)
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A few pics of the various versions of the trailer showing the same thing
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Thanks for the reply, my plan has changed quite a lot since my op. I've been binging a fella on YouTube who has been building different versions of a reverse trike with dual wishbone suspension up front, he's been experimenting with all aspects of camber, toe in ect and has a chart with his findings it's a very interesting whach and very informative. I've gone ahead and ordered a kit for a go cart that has everythibg bar the shocks so with that the build should be a lot easier than my original plan also I have full control of all aspects. Time to brush up on my welding it's been at least 29 years since I picked on up. Here's a link to one of his videos like I said very interesting.
 
Thanks for the reply, my plan has changed quite a lot since my op. I've been binging a fella on YouTube who has been building different versions of a reverse trike with dual wishbone suspension up front, he's been experimenting with all aspects of camber, toe in ect and has a chart with his findings it's a very interesting whach and very informative. I've gone ahead and ordered a kit for a go cart that has everythibg bar the shocks so with that the build should be a lot easier than my original plan also I have full control of all aspects. Time to brush up on my welding it's been at least 29 years since I picked on up. Here's a link to one of his videos like I said very interesting.
So are you going to use a go kart front n a cargo bike?
 
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