A recumbent build

[Epithemeus]

I've managed to find two good deals for some used recumbents, a trike and a bike and am looking for some other opinions and insights because I'm stuck choosing between them. Both are within budget so I'm not factoring price/value but rather which will be a good fit for me. Of course it's highly personal and I get that, but I'd love some other views. The trike is the sunseeker x3-ax (
X3-AX) and the other bike is the ez1 (Sun EZ-1 Recumbent Bike - Bicycle Man)

Background info. I'll be using this as a daily commuter, often towing a trailer with my kid. Not interested in high speeds much, I'll be limiting it to the legal limit here (32kph) I occasionally enjoy some windy turns and bombing down the occasional hill (neither of these with the trailer obviously ) Haven't decided what I'm going to do for a motor but it'll either be the photon I've already got, or a phaserunner and hub from Grin. Motor choice is less the thing I'm concerned about though, but figured I'd give the background info.

Why I like the trike: Dual disc in the back, should give good stopping power. A nicer bike quality wise. Looks cool. Not having to worry as much about balance at low speeds is cool I suppose.
Why I don't like the trike: Tippy delta trike, it looks like it's better than some delta trikes tippy wise, but I dunno (I don't want a tadpole trike btw)

Why I like the clwb ez1: Better on the turns. A hub in the 16" front wheel could make a heck of a hill climber (if the fh212 could even fit in that size rim, I dunno wheel building enough to say)
Why I dislike the ez1: No discs, I hate rim brakes. There's a company near me that offers welding disc brake tabs and frame reinforcement (it's steel frame) so in theory I could get a disc on the rear where most of the weight is. I'd prefer not to make modifications if possible, but maybe it's worth it? If a used easy rider or maxarya came up near me for the right price I'd take it in a heartbeat, but the ez1 is what's available near me (there is a serious lacking of clwb bikes out there)

I think it mainly comes down to which I think is more important stability on turns, or stock disc brakes. If you've made it this far, thanks muchly for reading my rambles, I'd love your insight!

 

[nicobie]

For me it would definitely be a two wheel bike. Don't worry about it having disc brakes as rim brakes work fine. They will lock up your wheels as good as disc brakes will. I would not buy a bike like you linked. A used full size bike will work just fine for the needs you described and probably be cheaper too.

However you should always buy what you want. It's always possible to get something better in the future.

 

[Epithemeus]

For me it would definitely be a two wheel bike. Don't worry about it having disc brakes as rim brakes work fine. They will lock up your wheels as good as disc brakes will. I would not buy a bike like you linked. A used full size bike will work just fine for the needs you described and probably be cheaper too.

However you should always buy what you want. It's always possible to get something better in the future.

I've already got an upright bike I've been using and it does work well (and has disc brakes ) I'm looking for a recumbent for comfort reasons, I've tried a lot of different styles of upright bike and I just find they always leave me sore. Whereas the few times I've gotten to ride recumbents they've been like couches

What would be the main thing that would shy you away from a three wheeler?

 

[amberwolf]

Background info. I'll be using this as a daily commuter, often towing a trailer with my kid. Not interested in high speeds much, I'll be limiting it to the legal limit here (32kph) I occasionally enjoy some windy turns and bombing down the occasional hill (neither of these with the trailer obviously )

If by "bombing" you mean going faster than 10-15mph, you might reconsider that with the trike. I don't know how well that specific one performs above those speeds, but until I built the SB Cruiser trike, I hadn't ridden one that was safe to toodle along above that, because any twitch of the steering (from a rock or hole, or from me trying to avoid something) could flip the trike over before I could even react.

Oddly, the worst of them was actually when I trike-ified LWB semi-bent CrazyBike2, using the very same rear end I later used on Delta Tipper...er..Tripper, and nowadays is part of the SB Cruiser trike. (as a bike, CB2 was great, as a trike, it sucked)

Why exactly the SBC doesn't have this problem, at least up to the 20mph I ride it at, I don't know. Even before it got the heavy hubmotors in the rear wheel, and other outboard-and-low weight, it wasn't twitchy. Now, it's still not twitchy and it can corner tighter at faster speeds without lifting a wheel...but it is still a delta trike and has limitations in turning speeds that on a tadpole would be higher.


The bike is less likely to have these issues simply because you can lean it and your weight around to help compensate, once you're experienced with it's specific performance.

Why I like the trike: Dual disc in the back, should give good stopping power. A nicer bike quality wise. Looks cool. Not having to worry as much about balance at low speeds is cool I suppose.
Why I don't like the trike: Tippy delta trike, it looks like it's better than some delta trikes tippy wise, but I dunno (I don't want a tadpole trike btw)

Balance is one of the main reasons I use SB Cruiser (delta trike) all the time nowadays. (I have a plan to remake CrazyBike2 into Cloudwalker Cargo Bike, but my balance issues make it not much of a priority these days).

Brakes...important when hauling a trailer, but you can build brakes into a trailer, too, and there are even ways to make them auto activate based on hitch tension/pressure (some discussion on those in one of my trailer threads, I think). If the trailer has brakes of it's own, it's less important that the hauling bike/trike has stopping power for both of them.

As you note, adding disc to the bike is an option. There are ways to do it without welding, but something permanently fixed to the frame is likely less flexible.


If you were thinking of rear hubmotor at all on the bike, then a torque plate for mounting that can also include ISO caliper mounts. There are several of those designs around the forum, some in the Torque Arm Picture Thread. (you can use those on a non-hubmotor as well).




Also...depending on the design of the hitch and placement of it, and the way the trailer is loaded, rear brakes on the bike or trike may not actually be as effective when the trailer is attached--it can lift the rear wheels enough to take traction away from them.

Another problem with a delta trike pulling a trailer is that (again depending on hte hitch and load) in a sharp enough turn or avoidance maneuver, the trailer can push the trike and tip it enough to flip them both over.

Can happen on a bike, too, but the hitch has to be much higher up or too limited in motion range to do the same thing; and can be worse on an upright regular bike than a 'bent (I did this once on my old DayGlo Avenger while carrying Nana the St Bernard in teh trailer--but everything was up high, and that was the root cause of the problem--I never had any issues with the various low-hitch-placements and low-COG of the CrazyBike2 and any of the trailers or loads carried)


All that said...my most likely next build, if there is one, is a new version of the SB Cruiser trike with the numerous improvements based on my findings with it over the years (eight?) that I've been riding it....and for my purposes, it is much more useful, comfortable, stable, and even safer to ride on the streets in traffic (visibility) than even the best version of my CrazyBike2 (which I loved more than any other bike I've ever ridden).

If you haven't ridden trikes before...you should try a few different models and styles before settling on one, because every design will handle differently. Even "minor" changes to the SB Cruiser trike have made significant changes to it's handling.

 

[amberwolf]

Regarding seat comfort---whatever you get, use a suspended-mesh seat of some form. I made my own for CrazyBike2 after having worked out a few unsatisfactory padded-seat designs, and it was so much better for road vibration isolation.

On SB Cruiser, I tried padded seats of various types, and none of them were anything like the suspended mesh on CB2. Eventually I ran across a StadiumChair at a thrift store, and it was like it had been custom-made to bolt right onto SBC, and I've been using it ever since.

 

[Epithemeus]

If you were thinking of rear hubmotor at all on the bike, then a torque plate for mounting that can also include ISO caliper mounts. There are several of those designs around the forum, some in the Torque Arm Picture Thread. (you can use those on a non-hubmotor as well).

Oooo, intriguing, this is exactly what I was looking for, ideas that hadn't occurred to me at all.

Another problem with a delta trike pulling a trailer is that (again depending on hte hitch and load) in a sharp enough turn or avoidance maneuver, the trailer can push the trike and tip it enough to flip them both over.

Yikes! The trailer I've got at the moment is your pretty classic kid trailer that seem to be quite common. (https://image1.used.ca/100331186_614.jpg that specific model) They do seem well designed to mitigate what you are describing, nice flexible mount, low mount on the bike, a pretty low center of gravity, wide wheelbase. Still, my cargo is extremely important (okay maybe the groceries less so ) so I think that alone probably makes my decision. I'm not sure I could tolerate even a slight increase in tipping risk for the trailer. Very glad I posted since my brain apparently blanked on "tippy bike means tippy trailer"

Thank you so much for the long detailed response Amberwolf. You're truly a treasure.

 

[amberwolf]

Yes, my cargo has usually been rather precious to me as well:

I originally started the trailer process largely because Hachi got too big to carry on the actual bike



This is the trailer that i tipped and crashed with on DGA:

Amberwolf's Flatbed Kennel Trailer

This thread is here to kind of collect pics of the trailer all in one place, along with some of it's details, so people don't have to go digging thru the DGA thread for them. The rest of the info is over in the DayGlo Avenger thread (the bike used to haul it around). I'm also sort of...

endless-sphere.com

Pics of DGA are also there)
tip post

Amberwolf's Flatbed Kennel Trailer

If you come across another set of Quickie quick release hubs AW i'll buy them off you i want to build a new chair formyself this year so will start collecting bits as i can afford them... Chasing some 'frogs leg' casters for the front doubt, you would ever come across these seeing they are...

endless-sphere.com

(proximal cause was a shimmy, but real cause was trailer pushing bike around above the wheel differently than the bike was moving)


This is the kid's trailer similar to yours that I used next

Amberwolf's Flatbed Kennel Trailer Mk2

This is a new trailer based on experiences from the last one: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18671 that is buried with Fred (melted around her in the house fire). First, I was going to use the wire crate I already had at the apartment, but it is huge. (most of these...

endless-sphere.com

Then I went to this

Amberwolf's Flatbed Kennel Trailer Mk III

Previous versions are here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18671 and here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54323 but now that I've got a second, bigger St Bernard (Yogi), in addition to Tiny, I kinda need a bigger trailer, too. I already needed...

endless-sphere.com

And then I went wide:

Amberwolf's Flatbed Kennel Trailer Mk IV

This will be a new larger version, primarily for Yogi. Previous versions are here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18671 and here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54323 and here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63781...

endless-sphere.com

And wider

Amberwolf's Flatbed Kennel Trailer Mk V

New version for the dogs; usable for cargo too, with removable air conditioning for the dogs (if the parts I have work out). Previous versions are here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18671 and here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54323 and here...

endless-sphere.com

 

[neptronix]

A bike like this will have a rickety ride. Suspension on the rear is really important on a CLWB recumbent. This will limit speed.
OK if you plan to keep it to slower speeds. Would recommend a mid drive or hub motor for this.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

I hate rim brakes

Perhaps you already know this - there are hydraulic rim brakes available.

Also, if you use a hub motor, you can brake with regeneration. All of my conversions will come to a complete stop entirely from the motor regeneration - I deliberately adjust my brakes so there is some space at first to trigger the brake signal before actually engaging the mechanical brake (which I still have when I need it).

Also, with Grin's electronics, my throttle provides proportional braking once the switch is triggered.

Grin does not list a 16" rim for the 212 motor, but they will build their All-Axle into a 16" rim.

 

[neptronix]

212 is designed for wheels 26" and up and will have poor efficiency in a small wheel.. don't believe me, check it out on the ebikes.ca simulator.

rim brakes work great on smaller wheels due to the faster rotational speed. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Papa]

People need to STOP labeling ALL delta trikes with the same "tippy" BS. Yes, many poorly designed Delta platforms are, in fact, prone to roll.... but NOT all.

Another problem with a delta trike pulling a trailer is that (again depending on hte hitch and load) in a sharp enough turn or avoidance maneuver, the trailer can push the trike and tip it enough to flip them both over.

This largely depends on the chosen trike, the hitch location, and the gross trailer weight. If the hitch is mounted at or below the trike's rear axle height, and is loaded with 8-10% of the trailer's gross, it'll actually push downward on the hitch during braking... loading the trike's rear wheels contact patches... reducing or eliminating the possibility of jack-knifing. Even the "Rolls Royce" of Delta trikes (Hase) knows this - and they offer a hitch. N-e-v-e-r load the trailer with a gross weight exceeding the trike's gross weight.


EZ-1:

My sister has owned and ridden an EZ-1 for almost 20 years - she still owns it today. If you are much taller than about 5' 3"... then it's a very poor choice (and potentially dangerous). Why?...

1.) Taller riders place the CoG too far aft. This condition negatively impacts handling.
2.) The steering geometry is poorly designed. It has way too much positive trail

 

[Epithemeus]

Perhaps you already know this - there are hydraulic rim brakes available.

I've heard of those, they are interesting but I still don't think I'd like them. I think it's about more than stopping power. To be honest though I can't fully explain my bias against rim brakes. I've just never had pleasant experiences in the past. I also ride in the rain quite frequently (Vancouver) and noticed degraded wet performance and squeaking from the few rim brake bikes I've had but no problems with the disc bikes.

212 is designed for wheels 26" and up and will have poor efficiency in a small wheel.. don't believe me, check it out on the ebikes.ca simulator.

rim brakes work great on smaller wheels due to the faster rotational speed. I wouldn't worry about it.

Your statement does seem counter intuitive, I would think smaller wheel, higher rpm, higher efficiency. If I compare two identical 212 motors one in 16" and one 26", then set the throttle levels so the speed matches I see identical efficiency numbers? But then if I bump up the grade to 20% the 16" wheel can still climb but the 26 bogs down and can't put out enough torque. (I put 330 lbs for the weight cause I like to overestimate)

My sister has owned and ridden an EZ-1 for almost 20 years - she still owns it today. If you are much taller than about 5' 3"... then it's a very poor choice (and potentially dangerous). Why?...

1.) Taller riders place the CoG too far aft. This condition negatively impacts handling.
2.) The steering geometry is poorly designed. It has too way much positive trail

I am 6 feet. That's good to know.

People need to STOP labeling ALL delta trikes with the same "tippy" BS. Yes, many poorly designed Delta platforms are, in fact, prone to roll.... but NOT all.

That's totally fair, unfortunately I think all the trikes I would want would likely be tippy because I want to be comparatively high up for seeing and being seen. Given you've said the ez-1 would be unstable for someone of my height how do you think it would compare stability wise to the X3 I linked?

 

[Papa]

Although there are several important criteria for a safe delta, I would probably point to CoG location being the most important. The bulk of the mass is usually the rider - and the CoG is typically close the rider's belly-button. The following images as a general guide (it's best to try and keep the CoG inside the red triangles). However, slightly outside the red zone doesn't automatically mean bad. It just means you have to be aware of the fact that tipping is possible. Although you can lower the mass somewhat without lowering the rider, it requires careful selection of components and prudent placement - typically, low is better (especially the batteries),

unfortunately I think all the trikes I would want would likely be tippy because I want to be comparatively high up for seeing and being seen

As a 20+ year delta builder and rider, I think you are harboring far too much unfounded fear, and zero common sense. Not once have I exchanged paint with a fellow motorist, nor have I eaten asphalt pie... not once. And you'd be hard-pressed to follow my tracks in-route to the local hardware (I generally take-the-lane...and don't dilly-dally).

One of my early creations. After 2 decades and many, many hacks, it is officially retired. Deservingly

 

[PaPaSteve]

All brake surfaces do wear out at some point and need to be replaced.
Wet weather, with the road grit that comes with it, does wear the brake surface faster.
A rim is a very large disc that in theory should make better stopping power
but
the fact that the rim is made from aluminum is a negative feature.
Aluminum is a poor material for a braking surface especially in the wet.
Replacing a disc is less costly than replacing an entire wheel.
Trikes are perhaps the most balance sensitive vehicles on the road.
In general, every wheel should carry an equal portion of the load.
So with a trike that means 33% on each wheel or 66% on the wide axle and 33% on the single axle.
Any trike is OK as long as the operator understands the limitations.
Trailers . . .
In the automotive world on public roadways passengers are forbidden from riding in them.
Let me tell you a strange story . . .
44 years back I was pedaling a bicycle towing my daughter in a trailer under 10 mph on a flat, but highly crowned stretch of road when the trailer started to bounce side to side a few times and then flipped over.
Never took the same risk again.
My solution was to incorporate the trailer into the bike so if the trailer flipped then I flipped with it.
Yeah, I know a bit extreme . . .

 

[neptronix]

Your statement does seem counter intuitive, I would think smaller wheel, higher rpm, higher efficiency. If I compare two identical 212 motors one in 16" and one 26", then set the throttle levels so the speed matches I see identical efficiency numbers? But then if I bump up the grade to 20% the 16" wheel can still climb but the 26 bogs down and can't put out enough torque. (I put 330 lbs for the weight cause I like to overestimate)

It's not at all.

RH212 is a tall motor with more poles than usual. Iron/magnetic losses will be elevated. You will lose massive efficiency on the flats. The other negative effect is higher cogging. The faster the wheel spins, the more cogging, and you have a 16", so this is the worst case scenario for this motor. This particular motor was designed for 26"-29" wheels.



And here's a more common size + pole count DD hub for comparison. 8% better efficiency on the flats. Notably less cogging. This motor design is optimized around 20-24" wheels



Quite a big difference in efficiency. But both motors, at this very low speed, have efficiency below that of a super cheap, ultra low quality brushed motor.

If you go significantly faster, either motor becomes more efficient because the north/south pole changes happening very rapidly in a 16" wheel become a lower portion of the overall energy picture.

The funny thing is that if you stop pedaling in this scenario, then your efficiency goes up for the above reason.




The 16" has a hidden strength. The faster the RPM, the higher the maximum power can be extracted from a DD hub. The little motor will be an absolute beast under high load conditions. I'm not even maxing it out here, it gets way crazier.



Yeah.. peak efficiency is at super high speeds now... at a meager 20.1mph, we are way, way out of the efficiency band on this motor sadly.

An ideal motor for a 16" would have half the pole count, but AFAIK, no such motor exists, the grin all axle or 9c 27mm size motor is the best DD i could find for this size.

 

[nicobie]

I've already got an upright bike I've been using and it does work well (and has disc brakes ) I'm looking for a recumbent for comfort reasons, I've tried a lot of different styles of upright bike and I just find they always leave me sore. Whereas the few times I've gotten to ride recumbents they've been like couches

What would be the main thing that would shy you away from a three wheeler?

The way it handles.

 

[Papa]

I've already got an upright bike I've been using and it does work well (and has disc brakes ) I'm looking for a recumbent for comfort reasons, I've tried a lot of different styles of upright bike and I just find they always leave me sore. Whereas the few times I've gotten to ride recumbents they've been like couches

What would be the main thing that would shy you away from a three wheeler?

The way it handles.

You got my curiosity, Nicobie. Could you be a skosh more specific please?

 

[Epithemeus]

I managed to make a choice thanks to the advice of everyone here, naturally that means I chose neither. Joking aside, thank you for all the advice, based on what I read here I don't think I would have been happy with either so I kept looking. After remembering I only live 15 minutes away from the US border I could expand my search to Washington and found a waaay better selection of used recumbents. I ended up with a beautiful Sunseeker ez-sport ax. Now the real build thread starts. First step of the build was to set it up how I like it as an acoustic bike and do a tuneup. It rides pretty nice. I was impressed with the V brakes surprisingly, maybe I've just had crappy ones in the past? I think I still want to make up a disc adapter/torque arm thing, but maybe I can put it off for a bit. We'll see when I first ride in a downpour. I managed to get my existing rack attached with a couple shelf brackets. will I ever get around to chopping down the rack supports that look like horns? *shrug* I don't tend to use the top of the rack. I'm pretty stoked that the basket that came with it fits with the rack on. Can just toss light stuff in and go.

Next step is to get the battery mounted. I've got a retention style case "jumbo shark" I think it's called that I got on AliExpress and I filled with some Samsung 50e cells. There's lots of space under the seat in the magnificently spacious "triangle" The issue is that the chain is very close inside. If I mounted it centered the chain would constantly rub the side of the case. I'm thinking I'll use some shelf brackets again and make some supports on which I can offset the battery about an inch or so to the left. I'll either post successful pictures or desperate crys for help in the near future depending on how that works out.

 

[amberwolf]

If you find it performs poorly in the rain, first try KoolStop Salmon pads in a version intended for your specific brakes. They did a good job improving my braking on my heavy cargo situations. (if I hadn't broken the fork I was using for my dual-rim-brakes I'd still be using those, but having to change forks to a non-rim-brake type at the time I tried the Avid BB7 MTN with 200mm rotor and it was good enough to stick with since then).

I think I already mentioned it, but you can also add brakes to your trailer that engage whenever it is pushing against the hitch. Disc are "easiest" in that a caliper mount can be made to attach to the bottom of the trailer frame, and a rotor mount can be made to clamp to the inboard side of the hubs. But rim brakes can also be made if you add a outer frame brace in parallel with the frame. Both will interfere with the easy removal of the QR wheels, though the rim brakes are easiest to work around for that. (I think I worked thru some of these ideas in one or more of my trailer threads if you need more info).


I recommend that you put bolt/nut on each of the two holes on either side of the moutning bolt of those L brackets--it will help keep the rack more stable and may help stop it from wiggling just enough to loosen that mounting bolt over time. But...that single bolt may be stressed with the lateral movement of the bags on the rack, and it could eventually snap. If you can drill the mounting hole in the center of the brackets out so that they fit over that stub on the frame and face flush against the frame, then hard fender washer(s) between the mounting bolt and the brackets to push the most surface area possible against the frame, (with a bolt with the widest head possible), it will help minimize the lateral movement at that single mounting point.

 

[Papa]

Much better choice for your longer legs FYI, Sun has a nasty habit of shipping w/dry bearings & dry brake arm pivots - a tiny dab of lightweight grease is encouraged. Yes, mount the battery mid-ship (ideally attached directly to the underside of the top tube, and as far forward as space & clearance allows).

 

[Epithemeus]

Much better choice for your longer legs FYI, Sun has a nasty habit of shipping w/dry bearings & dry brake arm pivots - a tiny dab of lightweight grease is encouraged.

The headset was super loose so I greased it up while tightening. It did seem a bit spare on the grease. Didn't think to check the brake pivots, thanks!

I recommend that you put bolt/nut on each of the two holes on either side of the moutning bolt of those L brackets--it will help keep the rack more stable and may help stop it from wiggling just enough to loosen that mounting bolt over time. But...that single bolt may be stressed with the lateral movement of the bags on the rack, and it could eventually snap. If you can drill the mounting hole in the center of the brackets out so that they fit over that stub on the frame and face flush against the frame, then hard fender washer(s) between the mounting bolt and the brackets to push the most surface area possible against the frame, (with a bolt with the widest head possible), it will help minimize the lateral movement at that single mounting point.

Yeah, I was surprised the bolt stuck out so much too. I considered dremeling it off and drilling a hole on each on side with some rivnuts or something. Decided it wasn't worth it right now, I don't really put heavy stuff in my panniers, really just diapers and clothes. Voluminous but not heavy. So I figured this would be okay for now. Your suggestion would be easier than my idea though as I already have the hardware as opposed to buying rivnuts. Probably worth it. Thanks!

 

[PaPaSteve]

Good choice

 

[ccihon]

T-Cycle has an aluminum battery mount with adapter for any frame tube size.... Pricey, but would let you locate low but out of the way of chain or cracks etc.

Fully Configurable Battery Mount

Electric drives on bikes and trikes are great for transportation and for enabling anyone to get out and ride, but until now, most people have had to hodgepodge together a way to carry the battery. Batteries are big, dense and valuable, and you don't want to just stick them anywhere. A rear rack...

t-cycle.com

I have had this for a couple years and it's rock solid

 

[Chalo]

Aluminum is a poor material for a braking surface especially in the wet.

Do you not remember the steel rims of yore? Aluminum rims were a huge braking upgrade from both the "nicer" chrome kind and the cheap painted kind of steel rims. They still are better for braking than steel, stainless, carbon plastic, nylon, wood, or any other bicycle rim materials I'm aware of.

My first disc brakes, Mountain Cycle Pro-Stop 9" full floaters from about 1990, had hard anodized aluminum rotors and worked almost as well as really good rim brakes (which is to say, better than most modern discs). But they did turn into warning sirens when they got wet.

Replacing a disc is less costly than replacing an entire wheel.

Also it's much more frequent because disc rotors are much more vulnerable to damage from normal use or happenstance.

 

[Papa]

T-Cycle has an aluminum battery mount with adapter for any frame tube size.... Pricey, but would let you locate low but out of the way of chain or cracks etc.

Not to intentionally initiate a bloody exchange, but... ideally, weighted components should be conveniently mounted elevated, but slightly below the top tube, and forward of the seat on LWB 'bents... not lower.

Mounted lower...
1.) Subjects the component to moisture spray from the front wheel
2.) Ground clearance is reduced.
3.) Negatively impacts handling
4.) Potentially interferes with chain routing