As I have said elsewhere, I have very old bones so love full suspension for going along canal tow paths and thro' the forest. 44lb is great, my two TSDZ2(B) lightweight builds are just either side of 40lb, but only have 36V 10ah / 48V 7ah batteries fitted which give me a 30 mile max range at best, charging time is yes a pain so I am lucky that I can switch bikes. But I have two grandsons who visit and nick both bikes for a ride out. Yes, have tuned both drives so they perform more less the same all be one is 36V and the other 48V.
FS offroad/road TSDZ8
- Thread starter E-HP
- Start date
I’m trying to get used to the small capacity battery. It limits which trails I can ride to. I'd be more comfortable with 17-20Ah. I'm looking at a 52V 20Ah pack, 14S4P of Samsung 50S cells, with bluetooth BMS that I think will fit in the triangle. It's rectangular, and I would make an outer case or cradle out of ABS. There should be almost zero voltage sag from what the TSDZ8 can pull from the pack
I need to get this thing flashed with OSF or updated firmware. I'm looking for the necessary hardware. I was watching a few videos, and one guy described what it feels like to ride with the stock firmware. Throttle is crap. But even though the motor has the power to do what you need it to do when you mash the pedals, for normal riding, it feels like the assistance is just short of what it should be, and it's tiring to ride, no matter what level of assist you use. It's like the power just needs to scale slightly greater, relative to the leg input, than it does.
Maybe just going to 52V would make it perform better and cause less fatigue; I'll probably test that with some lipos in the next few days. In the mean time, I swapped out the tires for some Hookworms, since until I get the motor flashed, I'll just be using the bike more for fitness, and the slicks won't feel as sluggish as the old knobbies. Actually it was a good thing I did the swap, when I removed the old knobbies, the sidewalls had long cracks and some looked ready to fail.
Just from a quick test, the bike feels a lot more agile now.
Besides the tires, I swapped out the handlebar for one with more rise and sweep. I've decided I'm to old to ride a straight bar anymore; makes my wrists sore. I used the same bars as my other bike, since I tried so many before finding that one. I added the left side 7 speed grip shifter (micro shift), but haven't removed one of the rear cogs yet. I put the thumb throttle on the right side, but won't swap it out for a half twist until I get the firmware stuff worked out. I'm replacing the brake cables and housings next, and remounting the battery up a little so I can fit the chain guide on the seat tube.
I watched a video where the firmware that was loaded added a cadence adjustment in addition to the torque sensor assist. I think that would help a lot, especially if it can increase assist slightly with an increase in cadence, which is how I have my other bike set up. I get about the same amount of exercise whether I'm going slow or fast, which works for me.
The last three days, I've been taking it out for short rides two or three times a day, until I get back into better shape. Not a lot of miles, but gradually increasing my riding radius.
I'm taking advantage of the mid drive and easy of tire swapping. It took me about 15 minutes to swap out both tires
EDIT: Oh ya, not having a kickstand sucks.
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I have got the parts so I can amuse myself having a go at doing the same as Lapierre and others manufacturers, a main battery which is 10ah which gives me 30 mile range plus a 7ah range extender, I have a 10ah and 7ah which are in the same compact range so will get my 3D printer out and have a play. Have got a small double battery dis-charger that will take 20 amps which is good enough for me.
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I spent more time than I'd anticipated installing a front chainring guide. I needed to move the battery up about 1/2" in order to fit the clamp on the seat tube, but decided to enlarge and existing hole for the top hole, which was around 1/2". After remounting the cradle, installed the battery and it just hit the guide clamp. I could lock the battery in, but it wasn't 100% seated. So, the clamp got the bench sander treatment and everything fits perfectly now lol. I also shortened the TSDZ8 battery cable and the cable from the cradle to get rid of the extra length. It took me forever to solder on new XT60's for some reason. I was even using my big iron.
Anyway, I finally got it done, and was ready for a test ride. As I rode up my sloped driveway, I hear a pop, and look down and see my chain on the ground. It's new, but cheap; whatever shipped fastest. I had some master links, and had to pop out one of the pins, but noticed the chain was 4 or 5 links too long when in the highest gear. So I shortened it again, and installed the master link. (Note to self: mount a seat bag and include a tire patch kit, CO2 cartridges, chain breaker, master links, and hex wrenches.) When I was looking for my chain breaker, I noticed I has a brand new Shimano chain in the parts box, so I'll probably swap the chain out tomorrow.
Luckily the days are getting longer and there was still plenty of daylight to ride around. The Hookworms really made a difference when riding on pavement. I'm riding at a pretty leisurely 14mph or so, and rode about 20 miles, mostly flat. Battery started at 53V and ended at 47.5V.
Here are 4 makeshift kickstands I found while out riding:
Anyway, I finally got it done, and was ready for a test ride. As I rode up my sloped driveway, I hear a pop, and look down and see my chain on the ground. It's new, but cheap; whatever shipped fastest. I had some master links, and had to pop out one of the pins, but noticed the chain was 4 or 5 links too long when in the highest gear. So I shortened it again, and installed the master link. (Note to self: mount a seat bag and include a tire patch kit, CO2 cartridges, chain breaker, master links, and hex wrenches.) When I was looking for my chain breaker, I noticed I has a brand new Shimano chain in the parts box, so I'll probably swap the chain out tomorrow.
Luckily the days are getting longer and there was still plenty of daylight to ride around. The Hookworms really made a difference when riding on pavement. I'm riding at a pretty leisurely 14mph or so, and rode about 20 miles, mostly flat. Battery started at 53V and ended at 47.5V.
Here are 4 makeshift kickstands I found while out riding:
I have always been able to solder with ease, but I have have the same fun and games with soldering ends on these cables, think there could be impurities. If I can I will always try and crimp the ends. Always carry a spare Sram Power 9 speed chain in my back pack, but when I do the 12" check on the existing chain it's still in one bit after 2500 miles along with a mini repair kit.
Why don't you have a kickstand? I have one on my TSDZ2 hardtail, by using only the bottom bracket mount, chain stay mount not used (1300 miles so far no problem).
No place to mount one, Except on the swing arm.
Kickstands on offroad bikes are best for rattling and coming loose on jumps. It's also extra weight. Just lay the bike down if you don't have a tree around.
Not disagreeing with you but his bike is dual purpose. Thread title is "FS offroad/road TSDZ8". He says he misses not having one.
I just did a 14S test using half charged lipos (charged to 53V). I only did a short test, since the lipos are only 5Ah. I rode an uphill trail, 7% near the bottom and 15% or so near the top. There was zero voltage sag at the top where the motor was pulling hardest.
The motor was much more responsive than the 13S pack, mainly due to the lack of voltage sag. On the 13S pack, I was seeing almost 5V of sag in the steep section. That sag affects performance everywhere in the band, even on flat ground. Sort of like your bike is being towed with a big bungee cord that takes a while for it to start accelerating, and picks up speed as the voltage recovers.
On flat ground and rolling hills, the bike performs with a lot more response and the assist has much greater authority.
I'm leaning a lot more toward the 14S4P 20Ah pack I've been looking at, using Samsung 50S 21700 cells, which should have close to zero voltage sag from the current the TSDZ8 will demand.
I think I'll charge up the lipos and do more testing to see how the motor performs at closer to 58V, since the bike was much more fun to ride even with them half charged.
EDIT 05-22-25 I finally passed 100 miles on my ride this morning. That's since last Tuesday; so 6 days, since I skipped riding a few days. I'm definitely increasing my fitness with every ride. Changed the stem to a shorter one with some additional rise. I'm having fun just putting around, mostly riding at speeds less than 15mph. I rode to the Berkeley campus and there were a few graduation ceremonies going on. Riding in between and around the pedestrians with the torque sensor worked really well, so that was a big plus. I still miss having a decent throttle though.
EDIT 06-03-25 Still getting used to the modest power. I really need to shift a lot to keep the motor a sweet spot. I need to check the swingarm bushings and rear wheel to see if there's any play. I think I can feel the rear shift to the side a little when going on or off the power with the throttle. I don't notice it when pedaling. I still only have 190 miles on the bike, since I ride around at a pretty leisurely 12-13 mph most of the time.
The motor was much more responsive than the 13S pack, mainly due to the lack of voltage sag. On the 13S pack, I was seeing almost 5V of sag in the steep section. That sag affects performance everywhere in the band, even on flat ground. Sort of like your bike is being towed with a big bungee cord that takes a while for it to start accelerating, and picks up speed as the voltage recovers.
On flat ground and rolling hills, the bike performs with a lot more response and the assist has much greater authority.
I'm leaning a lot more toward the 14S4P 20Ah pack I've been looking at, using Samsung 50S 21700 cells, which should have close to zero voltage sag from the current the TSDZ8 will demand.
I think I'll charge up the lipos and do more testing to see how the motor performs at closer to 58V, since the bike was much more fun to ride even with them half charged.
EDIT 05-22-25 I finally passed 100 miles on my ride this morning. That's since last Tuesday; so 6 days, since I skipped riding a few days. I'm definitely increasing my fitness with every ride. Changed the stem to a shorter one with some additional rise. I'm having fun just putting around, mostly riding at speeds less than 15mph. I rode to the Berkeley campus and there were a few graduation ceremonies going on. Riding in between and around the pedestrians with the torque sensor worked really well, so that was a big plus. I still miss having a decent throttle though.
EDIT 06-03-25 Still getting used to the modest power. I really need to shift a lot to keep the motor a sweet spot. I need to check the swingarm bushings and rear wheel to see if there's any play. I think I can feel the rear shift to the side a little when going on or off the power with the throttle. I don't notice it when pedaling. I still only have 190 miles on the bike, since I ride around at a pretty leisurely 12-13 mph most of the time.
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I installed the new version of firmware from ebikestuff. I haven't figured out the OSF installation yet, but doing a lot of reading. Anyway, the new firmware is much better, both for pedal assist and throttle. The throttle is still less responsive than ideal, but it's not terrible. With this firmware I get up to around 28mph throttle only, while the original only hit 22mph (level 5). The pedal assist is improved, and I don't feel the fatigue that I had with the original.
If the motor came with the newer version originally, I may have been fine with it, but after investing in the interface for flashing it, I want it to be a little better than it is, and the OSF will likely/hopefully improve things further.
As far as power goes, with the original firmware, I'd see the power top out at 1250W, in level 5. With the new firmware, I noticed it exceeding that and climbing a hill in level 3, I saw 1355W or so (hard to read the tiny EKD01 display), and it does feel like more assist being provided.
Once I get the OSF installed and tuned, I'll try the motor with 14S of lipos again to check its performance with no sag. The cheap battery I'm using really can't provide enough power when current is limited. Too much sag.
EDIT 06-10-25 I took another test ride this morning on fully charged legs lol. One of my moderately steep climbs, with around 700ft gain. The steepest part is a few blocks from the top (of course) at around 15%. With the new firmware, it wasn't bad. I felt tired on the last few blocks but not enough to stop. After I reached the “top” (of my test route), I kept going, climbing a gentle 6% for another half mile or so.
It’s really had to read the display, but I’m pretty sure I saw 1344w, so confirming it’s over the stock firmware output. Some interesting behaviors I’ve noticed is that the bike is faster on throttle while riding that it is unloaded. I think I need to look at that more, but that’s the impression I’m getting.
EDIT 06-10-25 I've been trying to figure out what I've been doing wrong trying to get the OSF loaded and working, and I think I finally figured it out. I'll try it out in the morning, after I install the shift sensor.
EDIT 06-12-25. Messed with the OSF more today for a couple hours, but can’t resolve the ERR2 error. I reloaded the latest firmware from ebikestuff again for now. I installed a shift sensor then went for a ride. Shifting is way better now, so that make ps the bike more fun to ride. At this point the bike is pretty enjoyable to ride, given it’s only 750w, and the throttle is almost responsive, and on a steep climb, hitting the throttle while pedaling now does something.
If the motor came with the newer version originally, I may have been fine with it, but after investing in the interface for flashing it, I want it to be a little better than it is, and the OSF will likely/hopefully improve things further.
As far as power goes, with the original firmware, I'd see the power top out at 1250W, in level 5. With the new firmware, I noticed it exceeding that and climbing a hill in level 3, I saw 1355W or so (hard to read the tiny EKD01 display), and it does feel like more assist being provided.
Once I get the OSF installed and tuned, I'll try the motor with 14S of lipos again to check its performance with no sag. The cheap battery I'm using really can't provide enough power when current is limited. Too much sag.
EDIT 06-10-25 I took another test ride this morning on fully charged legs lol. One of my moderately steep climbs, with around 700ft gain. The steepest part is a few blocks from the top (of course) at around 15%. With the new firmware, it wasn't bad. I felt tired on the last few blocks but not enough to stop. After I reached the “top” (of my test route), I kept going, climbing a gentle 6% for another half mile or so.
It’s really had to read the display, but I’m pretty sure I saw 1344w, so confirming it’s over the stock firmware output. Some interesting behaviors I’ve noticed is that the bike is faster on throttle while riding that it is unloaded. I think I need to look at that more, but that’s the impression I’m getting.
EDIT 06-10-25 I've been trying to figure out what I've been doing wrong trying to get the OSF loaded and working, and I think I finally figured it out. I'll try it out in the morning, after I install the shift sensor.
EDIT 06-12-25. Messed with the OSF more today for a couple hours, but can’t resolve the ERR2 error. I reloaded the latest firmware from ebikestuff again for now. I installed a shift sensor then went for a ride. Shifting is way better now, so that make ps the bike more fun to ride. At this point the bike is pretty enjoyable to ride, given it’s only 750w, and the throttle is almost responsive, and on a steep climb, hitting the throttle while pedaling now does something.
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I think I'll hold off on loaded the OSF for now, and wait for further development, since the updated firmware cures a lot of the issues already. I tested the firmware using 14S lipos, but they were only half charged (52V), but comparing with my 48V battery, charged to 52V, the performance is way better, with no voltage sag. Now, in 1st gear, wheelie are an issue, which I noticed as soon as I got on the bike. I went up some steep sections that with the original firmware, took a lot of pedaling effort, but with the lipos, I just throttled up (in low gear), without pedaling, so that's a definite improvement both for the throttle and power.
I'm charging the lipos now, so I can get a real feel for what it will be like running 14S with no sag. The pack I'm looking at built with P50B cells, should have no sag at these current levels. Best thing is that I'm having fun with the bike now, not just exercising.
EDIT: While charging the lipos, I noticed they are in perfect balance. I've been using the for over a year now, bulk charged maybe 50 light cycles, and never balanced them the whole time. I love when all the cells match.
EDIT: The lipo test went well. I'm definitely going to get the new pack after doing some final measurements. When I rode up my driveway in second gear I started to wheelie, so between the higher voltage and no voltage sag (battery voltage indicator never budged) it's actually fun to ride. On throttle, although there's a slight delay, it feels like it pulls as well on throttle as my old 1000W direct drive on 14S, but peters out requiring shifting up. The shift sensor works pretty well, and I think it will get better after I get a feel for how many gears I can shift through during the short cutoff period. Two gears at a time is still smooth. I'm ordering a 7 speed cassette tonight. The narrower width and a spacer should help the chain line.
I'm charging the lipos now, so I can get a real feel for what it will be like running 14S with no sag. The pack I'm looking at built with P50B cells, should have no sag at these current levels. Best thing is that I'm having fun with the bike now, not just exercising.
EDIT: While charging the lipos, I noticed they are in perfect balance. I've been using the for over a year now, bulk charged maybe 50 light cycles, and never balanced them the whole time. I love when all the cells match.
EDIT: The lipo test went well. I'm definitely going to get the new pack after doing some final measurements. When I rode up my driveway in second gear I started to wheelie, so between the higher voltage and no voltage sag (battery voltage indicator never budged) it's actually fun to ride. On throttle, although there's a slight delay, it feels like it pulls as well on throttle as my old 1000W direct drive on 14S, but peters out requiring shifting up. The shift sensor works pretty well, and I think it will get better after I get a feel for how many gears I can shift through during the short cutoff period. Two gears at a time is still smooth. I'm ordering a 7 speed cassette tonight. The narrower width and a spacer should help the chain line.
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