12 kw rc motor

[otas]

Marcobetti,
I have to eat my hat, I did not mean to offend anyone. I confess I have not read all 77 pages... If you have any experience with your motor, than thats OK. I wish you all the success in your development of this powertrain. I am newcommer and I am just soaking the atmosfere. I cannot comment on any of those big daddys of motors and I have no alliance with Hacker.
Good luck
otto

 

[AussieJester]

But if you guys really want to burn some rubber and show the lycra team some tail lights, go for 15KW (20HP) HACKER 200 large model aircraft engine. That will kick dust! Its more than £250

"More than 250 pound" its a hella lot more than 250 pounds, its a hella lot more than a 500 pounds LoL...

KiM

 

[dangerzone]

Hi !

Has anyone looked at the Sevcon GpAC controllers for this motor.
Or the new EVolution 5 that is liquidcooled.

The GpAC controllers are listed on the webpage.
http://www.sevcon.co.uk/pages/gpac.html

And the Evo5 is listed here.
http://www.sevcon.com/PDFs/EV%20Products%20Overview.pdf

Could work. and they seem to be available.

Regards
/Per

Wow, those look good, I wonder how much do they cost..?

 

[otas]

"More than 250 pound" its a hella lot more than 250 pounds, its a hella lot more than a 500 pounds LoL...

KiM

Yes, 899 Euro to be precise and 559 Euro for the controller. That is a lot of dosh, its made in Bavaria, Germany. It only shows where this is going. Wait for one from China for 1/10th price. They make 2-3KW motors for scooters and I am sure there are motors for the city electric cars. I should find out from the HYRBAN team, it is a hydrogen fuel cell powered electric car, no batteries. I designed LED headlights for them...

otto

 

[pm_dawn]

Hi !

Has anyone looked at the Sevcon GpAC controllers for this motor.
Or the new EVolution 5 that is liquidcooled.

The GpAC controllers are listed on the webpage.
http://www.sevcon.co.uk/pages/gpac.html

And the Evo5 is listed here.
http://www.sevcon.com/PDFs/EV%20Products%20Overview.pdf

Could work. and they seem to be available.

Regards
/Per

Wow, those look good, I wonder how much do they cost..?

Hi !

I dont know yet, they are not available yet I think.
But I guess it will be something around €2k.

regards
/Per

 

[dangerzone]

Hi !

Has anyone looked at the Sevcon GpAC controllers for this motor.
Or the new EVolution 5 that is liquidcooled.

The GpAC controllers are listed on the webpage.
http://www.sevcon.co.uk/pages/gpac.html

And the Evo5 is listed here.
http://www.sevcon.com/PDFs/EV%20Products%20Overview.pdf

Could work. and they seem to be available.

Regards
/Per

Wow, those look good, I wonder how much do they cost..?

Hi !

I dont know yet, they are not available yet I think.
But I guess it will be something around €2k.

regards
/Per

Yeah, that might seem as the price for the GpAC or the first one on top but the G8055 looks like it has some 3 HiPerFETs, shouldn't it be somewhere in the around 500 Euro range..? I guess the Colossus would be quite 'satisfied' with that G8055 at some 80V and 200A continuous...

I wonder would some of those controllers like GpAC or the first one be good to run 2 Colossuses with connected shafts to get more power..? And there's just one thing they do not have in the specs, the weight of the controllers. Would you possibly have some info on how heavy are they, what do they weight..?

 

[Arlo1]

I would like to find out more about the G8055 if it is using hyper fets then cant it be pushed to 100 volts?

 

[dangerzone]

I would like to find out more about the G8055 if it is using hyper fets then cant it be pushed to 100 volts?

Well it seems to be an 80V ( I think I read somewhere it can stand up to 110V voltage) controller, 220A continuous, 550 peak for 2 minutes and burst to 660A.

http://www.sevcon.co.uk/PDFs/G80-series%20Sales%20Literature.pdf

Would be just about right for the Colossus, don't you think so..?

 

[HAL9000v2.0]

This is interesting find, but it seems that increment encoder have to be added to Colossus.
It has 8 DI maybe some of them are high switch rate and can be used for halls !?!?!
It has so good parametes that I must become skeptic.
I will go to Jungheinrich representative near by I think they have them in their fork lifters.

 

[dangerzone]

This is interesting find, but it seems that increment encoder have to be added to Colossus.
It has 8 DI maybe some of them are high switch rate and can be used for halls !?!?!
It has so good parametes that I must become skeptic.
I will go to Jungheinrich representative near by I think they have them in their fork lifters.

Yeah, I guess their use is mostly in fork lifters and some golf carts, I see they have sales or an office in Milano, Italy, which is close nearby. The only concern might be the price, I guess they might not come cheap cause they are a top brand.

 

[LanceRooke]

What are the exact specs? Voltage? I'm assuming that it's a DC motor? Is it permanent magnet? Do you think this would be a good motor to use as a generator powered by a steam piston engine? Do you have a link to a place where I can purchase this motor? 250 dollars seems like a very reasonable price. I would like to know more about this motor.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

What are the exact specs? Voltage? I'm assuming that it's a DC motor? Is it permanent magnet? Do you think this would be a good motor to use as a generator powered by a steam piston engine? Do you have a link to a place where I can purchase this motor? 250 dollars seems like a very reasonable price. I would like to know more about this motor.

All the info is in this thread, except for any recommendation for it's use as a steam engines driven generator.

I hate to say this, as it's (apparently) your first post, but this does seem to be bit of a wind up. My guess is that you may reside not too far from Hawaii..............................

 

[Arlo1]

What are the exact specs? Voltage? I'm assuming that it's a DC motor? Is it permanent magnet? Do you think this would be a good motor to use as a generator powered by a steam piston engine? Do you have a link to a place where I can purchase this motor? 250 dollars seems like a very reasonable price. I would like to know more about this motor.

All the info is in this thread, except for any recommendation for it's use as a steam engines driven generator.

I hate to say this, as it's (apparently) your first post, but this does seem to be bit of a wind up. My guess is that you may reside not too far from Hawaii..............................

Im not to far from Hawaii.... Just a quik little boat ride :wink: Pluss Myt island is bigger 8)

 

[AussieJester]

I hate to say this, as it's (apparently) your first post, but this does seem to be bit of a wind up. My guess is that you may reside not too far from Hawaii..............................

You thinkin' his name might rhyme with "Candy" ? Jeremy hehe

KiM

 

[dangerzone]

What are the exact specs? Voltage? I'm assuming that it's a DC motor? Is it permanent magnet? Do you think this would be a good motor to use as a generator powered by a steam piston engine? Do you have a link to a place where I can purchase this motor? 250 dollars seems like a very reasonable price. I would like to know more about this motor.

All the info is in this thread, except for any recommendation for it's use as a steam engines driven generator.

One thing that comes onto my mind, is there any light weight electric generator that could produce 12kW continuous with a small and light gasoline engine..?

 

[Jeremy Harris]

One thing that comes onto my mind, is there any light weight electric generator that could produce 12kW continuous with a small and light gasoline engine..?

Not that I know of. It seems that most lightweight generators are only available up to 2 or 3 kW or so, once you get up to 12kW they are usually big frame mounted affairs. A 12kW continuous internal (or external for that matter) combustion engine to drive the generator is going to be a pretty big thing, if it uses conventional industrial engine technology. Most industrial engines of this size seem to be either heavy diesels or maybe LPG engines, there seem to be few petrol (gasoline) industrial engines around at 12kW or so.

The lightest way to drive a 12kW generator would probably be a gas turbine. We used to have quite a lot of aircraft ground power units that were powered by small gas turbines, running on kerosene (AVTUR or JET A-1). These were often up around 40 to 50kW and the engines were pretty small and light. They sometimes come up on the second hand market for a reasonable price, they were often the same units as used on larger aircraft as APUs. You could even make a gas turbine of around the right power from a couple of truck turbochargers I'd think. The parts would be around the right size for this power level. It'd drink fuel at a fair rate though!

Jeremy

 

[dangerzone]

One thing that comes onto my mind, is there any light weight electric generator that could produce 12kW continuous with a small and light gasoline engine..?

Not that I know of. It seems that most lightweight generators are only available up to 2 or 3 kW or so, once you get up to 12kW they are usually big frame mounted affairs. A 12kW continuous internal (or external for that matter) combustion engine to drive the generator is going to be a pretty big thing, if it uses conventional industrial engine technology. Most industrial engines of this size seem to be either heavy diesels or maybe LPG engines, there seem to be few petrol (gasoline) industrial engines around at 12kW or so.

The lightest way to drive a 12kW generator would probably be a gas turbine. We used to have quite a lot of aircraft ground power units that were powered by small gas turbines, running on kerosene (AVTUR or JET A-1). These were often up around 40 to 50kW and the engines were pretty small and light. They sometimes come up on the second hand market for a reasonable price, they were often the same units as used on larger aircraft as APUs. You could even make a gas turbine of around the right power from a couple of truck turbochargers I'd think. The parts would be around the right size for this power level. It'd drink fuel at a fair rate though!

Jeremy

I was at the AERO Expo 2010 in Freidrichshafen, Germany this April and there was a good idea for long range flight of electric airplanes. Since about 5kW to 12kW of electric power is enough for sustainable flight of UL aircraft then such an electric generator that could produce it would be great for long trips. Just put the generator on the plane or the co-pilot's seat and the range of the electric airplane can go for a few thousands of kilometers if a good fuel consumption is achieved... Some Simonini 2 stroke engines weight around 9 to 12 kg and consume 5l of gasoline for producing 12kW of shaft power, now the only problem would be converting that shaft power to electric power with minimal losses. Whoever comes with a solution might make a lot of money producing such small electric generators, imagine having them in any electric vehicle or airplane as a 'plan B' when something happens to the battery or the EV/EA runs out of 'juice'...

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I was at the AERO Expo 2010 in Freidrichshafen, Germany this April and there was a good idea for long range flight of electric airplanes. Since about 5kW to 12kW of electric power is enough for sustainable flight of UL aircraft then such an electric generator that could produce it would be great for long trips. Just put the generator on the plane or the co-pilot's seat and the range of the electric airplane can go for a few thousands of kilometers if a good fuel consumption is achieved... Some Simonini 2 stroke engines weight around 9 to 12 kg and consume 5l of gasoline for producing 12kW of shaft power, now the only problem would be converting that shaft power to electric power with minimal losses. Whoever comes with a solution might make a lot of money producing such small electric generators, imagine having them in any electric vehicle or airplane as a 'plan B' when something happens to the battery or the EV/EA runs out of 'juice'...

A few years ago I came up with something similar, but using direct drive from a 120cc paramotor engine fitted with a concentric electric boost motor for take off and climb, a bit like the configuration the Honda hybrid system uses. We didn't bother to build it as the total weight was greater than a conventional propulsion system and offered no real advantages. The problem with hybrid aircraft is the low ratio of peak to average power; average power is typically 50 to 70% of peak power, whereas for a car average power is often only 15% to 20% of peak power, making a hybrid solution more viable. Slow flying ultralights are probably the only case where it might just be viable, as they tend to have a higher ratio of peak to average power than other aircraft types, maybe around 2:1.

Jeremy

 

[sackspeed]

This year I visited the paramoteur expo in Bass-Ham, France. There where shown all new electric paramoteur systems. You can flight 4
hours with one 30 AH 48 V system. I think this is enought. If you want install a ICE generator it´s not possible the generate the power.
It would be to heavy at all.

http://wn.com/Werner_Eck

 

[jsplifer]

Hi,

Out of curiosity why would you be able to feed this motor 12kw but not be able to generate 12kw? Sorry for the newb electromag Q.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Generally, BLDC PM motors work as efficiently as alternators as they do as motors (they fall into a class known as reciprocal machines), so this motor should be able to generate 12kW, at least for short periods (I'm reasonably sure that it wouldn't have a 12kW continuous rating, either as a motor or as an alternator).

Jeremy

 

[Martin A]

Generally, BLDC PM motors work as efficiently as alternators as they do as motors (they fall into a class known as reciprocal machines), so this motor should be able to generate 12kW, at least for short periods (I'm reasonably sure that it wouldn't have a 12kW continuous rating, either as a motor or as an alternator).

Jeremy

So if the motor was used as a generator and connected diirectly to another as a drive motor, the drive motor would run at about 90-95% of the generator's speed with no need for a controller as long as the drive motor speed were controlled? I'm wondering about this as a packaging option rather than worrying about the efficiency.

My idea is to connect a motor as generator to scooter cvt via a step up/down gearing to be in the best rev range and then use another motor to drive a similarly geared drive.

Would this be possible, obviating the need for a controller?

 

[Arlo1]

:?

 

[Jeremy Harris]

So if the motor was used as a generator and connected diirectly to another as a drive motor, the drive motor would run at about 90-95% of the generator's speed with no need for a controller as long as the drive motor speed were controlled? I'm wondering about this as a packaging option rather than worrying about the efficiency.

My idea is to connect a motor as generator to scooter cvt via a step up/down gearing to be in the best rev range and then use another motor to drive a similarly geared drive.

Would this be possible, obviating the need for a controller?

If you connected a motor (as an alternator) to an internal combustion engine, mechanically, then connected the electrical output from the alternator (the three phase wires) to a motor, you would create a drive that was pretty much synchronous. The motor speed would be the same as the speed of the alternator at all times, as they'd be phase locked. In all probability the system wouldn't generate enough torque to stay in sync, so there would be some sync loss slippage, creating a fair bit of wasted energy. The system wouldn't operate as a CVT, as the system would try and keep in sync, with the alternator and motor phase locked.

Efficiency would be far worse than 90 to 95%, too, as you'd have the alternator efficiency of around 85% multiplied by the motor efficiency of around 85%, making a total efficiency for the drive of about 72%.

This system is similar to the common way of synchronising radar heads to displays around 40 to 50 years ago. The three phase motor/generators they used were called Selsyns. One was driven as an alternator by the motor and gearbox that rotated the antenna, whilst the motor unit was directly connected to rotating scan coils on the PPI display, physically rotating the "beam" so often seen on old radar screens. Because the three phases were linked (with a set of reference windings fed by a common source of AC to provide better low speed torque) the alternator and motor stayed in sync, ensuring that the heading of the antenna matched that of the "beam" on the display.

Jeremy

 

[jsplifer]

Jeremy Harris,
Thanks for the info. I've read some of those radar stations had built in ash trays, interesting about the sync.
Cool motor, love this thread.
Cheers,
Jasper