120% speed advanced timing on the controller programming

[methods]

ftp://82.146.52.163/ES%20Parameter%20Designer.exe

Here's a modified Parameter Designer binary that lets you bump up the speed modes as suggested by mwkeefer (I'd link the post but it's late and I'm tired and don't want to go hunting). This binary will let you up the 1-3 speeds in the parameter designer from 99 to 200 in increments of 25. Originally I was thinking this made a difference but it's all so subjective -- these speed differences could've been due to varying charge levels of my SLA battery pack. I have been building, not testing, and haven't had much of a chance to objectively test anything yet. Let us know if these higher values actually do anything!

Nice work.
Any chance I could get you to drop a line in the "18 fet Infinion thread" about your findings?
PM me if you need any parts - You get the "innovator discount".
I think I am going to follow in your footsteps and increase the maximum allowable current limit - if possible. I hex edited the original Chinese version but I did not have the right language pack so every time I found tags I could not translate them

-methods

 

[icecube57]

Next time i pop open the controller Ill flash it again at 150.
Gotta install a toggle switch for regen on and off. I need more zip ties too.. crap...

 

[stator]

Here's a modified Parameter Designer binary that lets you bump up the speed modes as suggested by mwkeefer (I'd link the post but it's late and I'm tired and don't want to go hunting). This binary will let you up the 1-3 speeds in the parameter designer from 99 to 200 in increments of 25. Originally I was thinking this made a difference but it's all so subjective -- these speed differences could've been due to varying charge levels of my SLA battery pack. I have been building, not testing, and haven't had much of a chance to objectively test anything yet. Let us know if these higher values actually do anything!

Hey woobins, can you do the same modification to the "116" version of parameter designer from this thread?:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10312&start=285#p169139

 

[liveforphysics]

Woobins- You're awesome! Thank you for helping so many E-bikers be able to push new limits on controllers! When I'm pushing to reach my 100mph goal, I will remember that your work made reaching that goal an easier task. Thank you!

-Luke

 

[methods]

When I'm pushing to reach my 100mph goal. . . .

So long as I dont beat you there... Behold my new 21lb monster..... 24S 15Ah 20C (just assembled for my 2WD 9C bike)
You may scratch your head and ask yourself where there are soooooo many weird wires coming out

Anyhow - I was being thick and I assumed this mod was on the software for the new controllers.
The software is nearly identical so it should not be hard to make the mod for the Instant Start version.
If it does not get done I will do it when I have time.

-methods

 

[liveforphysics]

Your pack should be enough to support 36hp continous, and maybe burst 45hp, but your wires look kinda girly to me for that much power.

On something with ok areodynamics, maybe front fairing recumbent, that would be enough power to reach 100mph. But, I have a feeling we both will only call it a real achievement when we can reach 100mph on a normal bicycle.

Nice job bundleing it all together. It looks kinda like a giant Ping pack, only its packing the power of 30-40 typical ping packs. Lol

 

[John in CR]

LFP,

You gonna have normal bike tires on the bike to go 100mph? If not, where do the differences get cutoff? If so, that's too crazy for me. Maybe a better qualification is weight limit and functional pedals required. Has anyone done 100mph on flat ground with no wind on ANY machine under 100lbs? Might be worth pursuing if it hasn't been done. "The Over 100 Under 100 Run" is kinda catchy.

John

 

[liveforphysics]

I will try spinning them up unloaded first to make sure they stay on the rims

And I will test on a long flat area, wearing my full kevlar and titanium 1 piece super-bike racing suit, and put on my dirt-bike exo-skeleton armor on over the outside. I should be pretty safe if I go down at 100mph in an area free of obstacles to hit.

Records shouldn't be able to be broken without taking some risk John, but I will do what I can to make things as safe as possible.

Methy, when you go for 100mph, you better be wearing some serious armor on your body as well. If you don't wana dump 1,000$ on a superbike suit, I will mail you mine if through some miracle you end up being ready to shoot for 100mph before me.

 

[no mods]

im just curious were your gonna fit that hunk of plutonium on your bike...

btw mars or musician's friend stocks "gaffers" tape. a bit more expensive than duct ($20 for 50') cept its f-ing cool! matte black, doesn't stretch out, residue free removal, and doesn't reek like ace'

**i hate the goo left behind that only brake parts cleaner can touch when u have to replace duct tape for any reason.

 

[Doctorbass]

im just curious were your gonna fit that hunk of plutonium on your bike...

Hmmm Plutonium!... ... or... PLUTO-LITHIUM

LFP.. Dont bother with that for the 100mph.. My 20" wheel on the 5302 with no load just PASS the test!

The SECRET.. USING 20" tire and 110psi rating tire

[youtube]_0lQOBhLG68[/youtube]

Doc

 

[methods]

What rim is that?
I need 24" double wide rims but nobody makes them anymore...

-methods

 

[Doctorbass]

What rim is that?
I need 24" double wide rims but nobody makes them anymore...

-methods

it's one of the rim that Ypedal sold me. He have alot of them.. they come from the old Zero e-motocross.. They are VERY STRONG !! 40mm wide

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

OK.. ==== NEW TEST TODAY =====

I finally installed teh usb cable on my 150A infineon controller ( the one for my drag bike.)

( with 92V)
OLD max no load speed: 139.2 kph ( stock oem program from crystalyte 18 fets 48A controller)

NEW no load max speed with programed 100% speed : 165.4kph
NEW no load max speed with programed 120% (with timing advance) : 167.2kph


and with 99V


NEW no load max speed with programed 120% (with timing advance) : 178.6 kph


This is strange that the 120% dont give 20% more speed.. it's like only 2%.. i will check again the seting i programmed...


Methy... Dont bother with the speed!.. this 20" bicycle tire is actually taking close to 180kmh

Doc

Doc

 

[methods]

I am an acceleration guy - not a speed guy.
I will leave those death runs up to you guys.

My fantasy is a bike that accelerates so hard that it hurts my nuts.

-methods

 

[John in CR]

I am an acceleration guy - not a speed guy.
I will leave those death runs up to you guys.

ROTFLMAO, I saw video of death runs considering no brakes and weak dropouts.

My fantasy is a bike that accelerates so hard that it hurts my nuts.
-methods

I'm not sure what that requires, but it definitely has a longer wheelbase and lower CG, not to mention proper brakes and dropouts, though your front dropout may now be adequate...get wifey to give you the numbers.

John

 

[Doctorbass]

I am an acceleration guy

Methy... I am an acceleration guy too... remember... 5305 100V 80A ... 20" wheel...

But.. the it seems also that the speed drag setup is a real DRAG setup!.. the acceleration is surprizingly faster than my 5305.

like 2 times...

see what my garmin gps recorded at.... 75% max throttle configuration:

Now imagine at 100% ... predicted date of phase II drag speed record 120% full throttle: begining of september!

For me... 75km/h under 5 sec is still a great acceleration.... for an e-bicycle!

Doc

 

[ZapPat]

I am an acceleration guy - not a speed guy.
I will leave those death runs up to you guys.

My fantasy is a bike that accelerates so hard that it hurts my nuts.

-methods

Is this the same guy who wanted to build an ebike capable of 100MPH about a week ago?? Maybe that last spinout made you reconsider?

I think you guys are a bit nuts to aim for anything over even 60mph on something we can still call an ebike, but hey, it's great for the cause! I also prefer acceleration and handling over speed.

I would personnaly avoid using the advanced timing options because of the efficiency hit, and would rather get a higher speed winding motor and/or raise the battery pack voltage. Or use the Wye/Delta mod which would actually help efficiency a bit, plus it would give you more available torque to attain those crazy power-greedy speeds.

Imagine a 2WD nine continent setup with delta-wye mod and cooling holes...

 

[methods]

Is this the same guy who wanted to build an ebike capable of 100MPH about a week ago?? Maybe that last spinout made you reconsider?

I was just saying that to get Luke fired up.
He is the guy who rides his motorcycle at 180mph in traffic


I agree with Pat on all accounts.
Switching the winding or raising the voltage is the ticket.

Tell you what - you need at least a pair of 10x6 wind 9C motors as I have already maxed mine out at 50mph @ 91V and 18A each. These are 9x7 wind.
If someone wants to hit 60mph they will need a higher KV motor or more voltage.

Since I have worked so hard to side-track this thread, I will return tomorrow with testing results of my dual 9C bike at 120 Speed setting.
We will see just how many MPH I can pick up and what price I have to pay for that.

-methods

 

[lesdit]

Can you elaborate on the delta/star wiring switch not working? Has anyone really tested that yet on an RC based bike ?

The Delta/Y thing didn't seem to have worked for an effective form of "electrical gearing", but this one seems viable. I'm trying to understand how significant is the effect.

John

 

[methods]

It works.
Been working for 100 years and all sorts of machinery....

Perhaps he is referring to the fact that it wont work for some kinds of windings (like trapezoidal on the X5).
Or perhaps we need to define "doesn't work" -> does that mean it does not have enough effect for the application in mind?

-methods

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Just a quick post to say that I've just measured the Hall Vs phase timing on my Infineon.

I can say with certainty that changing the speed limit from 100% to 120% does NOT change the timing at all, the Hall switching point still remains exactly aligned with the phase switching point. Even at 120% this controller is still not delivering 100%, it's actually only delivering about 90% of maximum when it's set for 120%; there is still an appreciable amount of PWM visible on the phase output waveform, resulting in about 10% of the voltage not being available to the motor. Essentially, if you have a 100V supply and are running with the limit set to "120%" in Parameter Designer, then you're really running at the equivalent of around 90V.

The next test will be to try the modified version of the Parameter Designer software to see what effect increasing the limit above "120%" has. Maybe this will allow the controller to go to a true 100%.

edited to add:
I've just tried "150%" and the controller does odd things. It does give close to a true 100% (the PWM just about disappears from the phase waveform and the speed increases a bit) at around 95% throttle. A bit more throttle and the controller seems to have trouble maintaining sync, it jumps and the phase waveform looks odd, with some sharp edges at the start/end of what should be a trapezoidal shape. The motor speed doesn't change appreciably, but the noise it makes changes, presumably from these extra edges. Overall I don't think this is a particularly good setting, as it seems as if something is right on the edge. The no-load current increases too, another indication that all isn't as well as it should be.

I'm now guessing that the controller is deliberately limited to 90% of full power because of this problem, maybe they just couldn't get it to run smoothly at a true 100% (no PWM) so artificially limited it to a point where it always works reliably.

edited again to add:

I've added a bit to the other thread about this problem.

Jeremy

 

[icecube57]

Thanks for posting your results. Is their an in between number between 120 and 150 where there is a speed gain without the increased current draw and jacked up waveforms. perhaps 135% to give maybe 95% PWM Duty Cycle.

It may not advance the timing but it is doing something for their to be a speed change in the wheel speed. There is a difference between 100 and 120. Small but noticeable. Any other aspects we can look at to see whats going on.

Its the MAN trying to keep the EBIKER Down!.

Can you do a video of the scope for comparison viewing for us?

 

[Jeremy Harris]

It turns out (at least for my set up) that about 110% is as far as I can go before the controller glitches. It's sort of OK at 115%, but will occasionally "chirp" at full throttle, with a corresponding big jump in no load current. The timing doesn't change when this happens, but the phase waveform distorts at the leading and trailing edges. I was adding to the problem earlier by not having enough throttle voltage - the voltage range changes slightly with these higher speed settings, it seems.

I don't have any means of shooting a video of the 'scope, which is a shame, as I'd like others to take a look at the phase waveform. It is a sudden transition, though. At nearly full throttle the waveform "just" gets to be a clean trapezoid, with little sign of any PWM. A fraction more throttle and the glitching starts, producing sharp leading/trailing edges with an amplitude of around 1/3rd of the peak to peak trapezoidal waveform. The motor speed increases very, very slightly when this happens. Measuring the Hall sensor times shows that there is a speed increase when it's in the "glitch" mode of about 1 to 2% at most. It's difficult to be certain, as the motor is dithering a bit in this mode, so there is a bit more jitter than there is when it's running smoothly.

Jeremy

 

[methods]

Nice work Jeremy, thanks for shedding light on this.

I would like to comment that Geoff noted this anomalous behavior with the 120 setting about a year back.
It is recorded in the Technical Reference section.

I am guessing that the motor/voltage combo will affect how high you can go without getting into trouble.
It would be interesting to test an X5 (trapezoidal wind) back to back with a 9C (sinusoidal wind)

I really (REALLY) need to get a scope running at my house.... With my current position I cant take my stuff into work anymore to tinker.

-methods

 

[Arlo1]

Nice work Jeremy, thanks for shedding light on this.

I would like to comment that Geoff noted this anomalous behavior with the 120 setting about a year back.
It is recorded in the Technical Reference section.

I am guessing that the motor/voltage combo will affect how high you can go without getting into trouble.
It would be interesting to test an X5 (trapezoidal wind) back to back with a 9C (sinusoidal wind)

I really (REALLY) need to get a scope running at my house.... With my current position I cant take my stuff into work anymore to tinker.

-methods

Hey methods.
I got mine new for ~180 us shipped off of egay it is this one http://www.vellemanusa.com/us/enu/product/view/?id=522380
I am a mechanic and I mentioned I built a megasquirt ecu and made my own fuel injection for my road runner it is basicaly the best tool I have ever bought. Check it out.