19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[casuarinatree]

I'm replacing the tires on a cargo from bike I have that usually runs (26"x4"). I've run tubeless in the past but want to avoid the problems I've had with flats going forward. I've decided to install Shinko 241 tires in the front and rear with either 19" or 21" rims. Can anyone recommend good front and rear hubs to get laced into either a 19" or 21" rim with 135mm dropouts and possibly 19-3.5 or 21-3.0 tires from Shinko? I forgot to mention that I'm running a mid drive Cyclone 3K motor so my application is a little different than the hub motor builds that are usually discussed here.

 

[Offroader]

Have any of you had to dish a rear motorcycle wheel? Any issues with doing this?

how much dish are you asking about? some have dished about 3mm or so with no issues.

Good question, looking it over I would have to dish far less than I thought. maybe 2mm.

I guess this is finally a benefit of having 9/10 gauge spokes to be able to dish it and keep the wheel build strong.

Just wondering, have you ever tried to align your ebike wheels? Like what if the tire was off a few degrees pointing to one side?

 

[Offroader]

Rix, one other question that I know was discussed before, is there really a large benefit for alternating the spokes?

My alternating spokes don't touch each other. Because it is so much easier to lace all spokes inside the hub I am thinking about just doing it that way. It avoids having to deal with two spokes sizes because the outside spokes need to be longer. I also think it will be generally easier to build the wheel.

 

[Jimboyr6]

Hey guys, I'm trying a 18" setup for our bikes,
What width Shinko SR241 would you reccomend for a 2.15 rim?

Thanks!
Adam

Wtf is going on with this lacing job
Rix its over to you !

 

[Rix]

Okay, the theory behind lacing jobs where spokes are crossed, and actually touch and bend around each other is this, there is positive tension at all times, even when one of the spokes loosen. For the record, I don't believe in this, but thats what I was told by a wheel smith in a nut shell. I have even seen wheels where the spokes were twisted together a couple of times, same concept applies, but I don't believe it. I believe the less the spokes are manipulated, the better and strong the lace job will be. Here is a pic of a wheel I would never run on any of my bikes, non ebikes or ebikes.

 

[Rix]

Hey guys, I'm trying a 18" setup for our bikes,
What width Shinko SR241 would you reccomend for a 2.15 rim?

Thanks!
Adam

Thats a very wide rim, but a 2.75x18 or a 3.00-18 Shinko SR241 will spread out enough to hit the beads on that rim. My only concern is the space between the tire and Seat Stay/Chain Stay.

 

[999zip999]

Bzthwindtalker why not use concave washers or concave those washers under the nipples.

 

[bzhwindtalker]

Spokes should always be crossed! anyway this was trew together from parts in the shop to see how it would fit the frames. For a real build I would have to check bigger spokes and make some conical washers.
For the record 4cross lacing is considered stronger than 3cross as the spokes attaches to the hub with 90) angle to the flange, so they pull where there is the most material to take the load.
So 3" tire should be OK?

 

[Merlin]

its not the crossing, you are in the wrong holes with your hub

 

[Rix]

Spokes should always be crossed! anyway this was trew together from parts in the shop to see how it would fit the frames. For a real build I would have to check bigger spokes and make some conical washers.
For the record 4cross lacing is considered stronger than 3cross as the spokes attaches to the hub with 90) angle to the flange, so they pull where there is the most material to take the load.
So 3" tire should be OK?

Yes a 3" tire will fit that rim no problem, I am concerned about the clearances on the frame. A 3 inch SR241 on a 1.40 wide rim is 3.3" wide. It will be wider on a a wider rim. A 2.75 wide shinko on a 1.40 rim is just a tiny bit over 3" As Zombies has found, a 2.75-19 SR241 on 2.15 wide rims spread the tire to 3.35" wide, your 3.00 wide shinko may be wider than that on this rim and you run into clearance on the frame. But to answer your question, the 3" wide shinko will mount up no problem to that rim.

 

[bzhwindtalker]

Ok thanks! I found a (maybe already known here) EU supplier of Shinko with DE stock for 18" and 19", decent prices
http://mc-reifen.de/

 

[Rix]

Ok thanks! I found a (maybe already known here) EU supplier of Shinko with DE stock for 18" and 19", decent prices
http://mc-reifen.de/

Hope to see pics when you have them mounted.

 

[ziltoid81]

But first fix your lacing as Merlin mentioned........

The spokes are in the wrong holes/direction.

 

[Rix]

its not the crossing, you are in the wrong holes with your hub

And thats obvious as well. You can see how some of the spokes exit the spoke hole on the rim, and then the spokes actually bend on the way to the hub. I should have looked closer the first time. This wheel needs to be unlaced and start over.

 

[Rix]

Rix, one other question that I know was discussed before, is there really a large benefit for alternating the spokes?

My alternating spokes don't touch each other. Because it is so much easier to lace all spokes inside the hub I am thinking about just doing it that way. It avoids having to deal with two spokes sizes because the outside spokes need to be longer. I also think it will be generally easier to build the wheel.

All me rear wheel lace jobs are alternating inside/outside the flange. It is easier as you don't have to manipulate spokes around other spokes when the spokes are tensioned aka tightened. That said, the inside spoke could be cut about 1.5mm shorter because its more vertical than the spokes coming from the outside. However, if one wants the strongest possible wheel, then lacing with all spokes coming from the outside of the flange is best. You get more of an upside down V triangle with the spokes from the hub to the rim.

 

[casuarinatree]

Has anyone ever tried to lace 21" motorcycle rims with the corresponding bike hubs for front/rear wheels and a spoke set for a 26" bike wheel? I'm trying to do this on a fat cargo bike build. My idea is to use 40h, 21 x 2.15 moto rims with bike spokes/necessary washers and a front 40h 135mm hub and 40h 135mm rear hub suited for a mountain bike using a 7-9 speed cassette.

 

[Rix]

Has anyone ever tried to lace 21" motorcycle rims with the corresponding bike hubs for front/rear wheels and a spoke set for a 26" bike wheel? I'm trying to do this on a fat cargo bike build. My idea is to use 40h, 21 x 2.15 moto rims with bike spokes/necessary washers and a front 40h 135mm hub and 40h 135mm rear hub suited for a mountain bike using a 7-9 speed cassette.

Not a 2.15 wide rim, but there is a guy on this thread that posted up some pics way back of his ebike with 1.60x21 MC rims front and rear.

 

[Offroader]

Rix, when using a 3" tire. It is recommended to use a 1.85 rim by the manufacturer.

I know you said in the past that it is both OK and you would prefer a 1.4" rim. What is your reasoning on using a 1.4" rim?

 

[Merlin]

weight.....
the difference is MASSIVE between a 1.4" Excel and a 1.85" Excel.


what the manufacturer recommend is right. but they also say 2 sizes more or less is also ok.
thats what you can read from the shinko website.


wider rim, less air in the tires, more plush ride.
narrow 1.4" Rim with 3.0" Tire you need more Air inside and its "harder" not so "plush"

 

[fechter]

This is a "MMG Tire" 2.75 x 16 mounted on a stock A2B 20" bicycle rim. The radial spoke arrangement has worked well so far, but I'm only running about 2kW. The tire fit beautifully but took some big motorcycle tire levers to install.

 

[Rix]

Rix, when using a 3" tire. It is recommended to use a 1.85 rim by the manufacturer.

I know you said in the past that it is both OK and you would prefer a 1.4" rim. What is your reasoning on using a 1.4" rim?

What Merlin said

weight.....
the difference is MASSIVE between a 1.4" Excel and a 1.85" Excel.

With my findings on average, most 1.85 rims weigh up to 2 pounds or more than 1.40 wide rims in the same size.

 

[Rix]

This is a "MMG Tire" 2.75 x 16 mounted on a stock A2B 20" bicycle rim. The radial spoke arrangement has worked well so far, but I'm only running about 2kW. The tire fit beautifully but took some big motorcycle tire levers to install.

Looks really good fetcher, I bet you get 2-3 times the mileage out of that tire over any bicycle equivalent.

 

[Offroader]

Why would I need less air with a winder rim?

I range my 3" tire from 11 to 14 psi, I can easily go lower without any issues.

If I went with a 1.4" rim I don't see any reason why it would be that much different and I could still easily use 11-14 psi, maybe even 8 psi.

I didn't think any of you guys even used psi in the 10-15 psi range.

 

[macribs]

Rix do you run those heavy duty tubes in your tires? I've seen a few of those that weigh close to a kilo, so in case you do run HD tubes you can get the plusher ride by skipping the HD inner tube and use wider 1.85" rims. Depending on how you make it air tight you could easily save at least 1 lbs maybe a few hundred grams more even.

 

[Rix]

Rix do you run those heavy duty tubes in your tires? I've seen a few of those that weigh close to a kilo, so in case you do run HD tubes you can get the plusher ride by skipping the HD inner tube and use wider 1.85" rims. Depending on how you make it air tight you could easily save at least 1 lbs maybe a few hundred grams more even.

I run regular MC tubes. I have never ran a MC HD Tube on any of my Ebikes. Regular MC tubes are the same has HD Mountain bike tubes as far as thickness and weight goes. Compare a 2.75-21 regular MC tube to a heavy duty 24x3.00 MTB tube and you will see what I mean. Yah, HD MC tubes are way heavy as you have noted.