19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[Rix]

I have a question. what tyre levers do people carry in the camel back with the MC Setup. Or is the theory you won't need any.

Thats the best part, you don't need to carry in any tire levers as long as your rear PSI is above 20. I haven't pinch flatted an MC rear yet and I put my machines into fairly isolated rocky locations and time and time again, been fine. You will see.

Rick

It's been a decade since I've done it but I used to be able to do doubles at the MX track. If the rim/tire/tube combo can withstand that (and triples that others could do) There is no way you are going to get a pinch flat. I also used to ride out in the desert and dry lake beds when I lived in California and never had a flat either.

+1 Ch00paKabrA, Its been closer to 2.5 decades since I raced Enduro and Desert in Idaho, I can tell you that blowing through a rock infested sandwashes at over 80MPH on a geared up 1991 KTM 540 DXC, I didn't pinch flat on that stuff either, even though I dented rims all day long bouncing off that shit. And I would venture to guess that the 2.75x19 SR241 would be harder to pinch flat than a Bridgestone M59 80/100x21 which I have ran on front of several dirt bikes over the years, and I was running those tires at 14PSI and only pinch flatted when I was center punch lava rock because the SR241 has more rubber and taller profile than the M59. Granted tires on the year are subjected to a lot more abuse, but we are talking ebike applications and not 60+HP dirt bikes weighing anywhere from twice to 3 times as much as an Ebike.

 

[amberwolf]

Been looking around for the best place to post/ask this, and this thread seems closest without starting a new one.

I've got some wheels from a 1990-ish Suzuki dirtbike motorcycle, that I am pondering using the hubs and spokes from to make smaller wheels for my new cargo bike, boht because they'd be much more sturdy than bicycle wheels for the road conditions and cargo/bike weight I deal with, and because I'd be able to use the MC suspension and hydraulic disc brakes front and rear, too. I have a pair of those 20" rims from the older Zero, that Ypedal had for sale here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51494
that I would probably use with them, and probably find some Pirelli ML75 (?) tires for them.


Now, the thing is, the spokes I have with them will be too long, so...would using a regular die (rather than rolling threads) probably still work well enough, in the case of spokes as thick as these motorcycle spokes? If not, I could probably find someone local that oculd rethread them for me once I cut them.



Note that I have not found the Suzuki wheels in my sheds yet, so I can't measure anything yet.

 

[Rix]

Been looking around for the best place to post/ask this, and this thread seems closest without starting a new one.

I've got some wheels from a 1990-ish Suzuki dirtbike motorcycle, that I am pondering using the hubs and spokes from to make smaller wheels for my new cargo bike, boht because they'd be much more sturdy than bicycle wheels for the road conditions and cargo/bike weight I deal with, and because I'd be able to use the MC suspension and hydraulic disc brakes front and rear, too. I have a pair of those 20" rims from the older Zero, that Ypedal had for sale here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51494
that I would probably use with them, and probably find some Pirelli ML75 (?) tires for them.


Now, the thing is, the spokes I have with them will be too long, so...would using a regular die (rather than rolling threads) probably still work well enough, in the case of spokes as thick as these motorcycle spokes? If not, I could probably find someone local that oculd rethread them for me once I cut them.



Note that I have not found the Suzuki wheels in my sheds yet, so I can't measure anything yet.

Amberwolf, based on my MC wheel experiences with both the Stealth Fighter and Bomber that you will really like the MC wheel and tire option for you machine. Much tougher wheels and tires last way way longer than bicycles do. I believe if you found correct die size to match the spokes, it wouldn't be much to cut to length and thread your existing spokes.

 

[amberwolf]

I think if I could afford the really good bicycle stuff (suspension, wheels, etc) then I'd be happy enough with that...but since I can't and the motorcycle parts I already have from donations can be repurposed, I'll end up using those.


So far the best of the bike wheels I've used on the existing monster (crazyBike2) has lasted a few months before breaking a spoke, and it is a no-name (average-low-end?) 44-spoke BMX wheel, 20", on the unsuspended rear end, which takes the most abuse. Even on the front, with a larger (26") normal bike wheel, I've bent rims and broken spokes on the potholes and other bad road stuff here, with the minimal suspension I've been able to try out so far (I think it's 50-60mm travel? spring/polymer type? Suntour 2000 something or other cheap steel forks).

I suspect that better suspension would help prevent the destruction of wheels by our roads, but given the loads I put on this bike sometimes I'm not sure anything I have in bike stuff would be good enough.

I have a slighly better Suntour 100mm travel alloy fork, but haen't been able to test it out yet, cuz it requires some other bike changes to do. (and any alloy fork would need better torque arms for my front 9C than I have right now, to keep me from worrying about shearing the dropouts on accel or regen braking, or more likely the alternation between the two).

I've tested an older Manitou Skareb oil/air fork on a more normal Diamondback Coil bike, in the old Fusin 1000W review thread, but it needed maintenance and it was better than anything else I've used, but I don't think it would survive CB2's weight/abuse in it's present condition.


So...it's down to the MC parts to get something better for the new bike, ATM.

 

[Rix]

I have seen your bike, its large to say the least, I imagine you could haul alot of cargo, get groceries for a month in one trip, stuff like that. When you get your MC wheel built, please post a pic of it. Would like to see CB2 with MC wheel.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

what's the weight you make for the 19x1.85 rim

I finally got one from my shop to work, where I have a scale. 4.3 lbs (1.97 kg) A surprisingly large difference from the 1.4s

 

[Mr Lowbank]

Shinko SR241 2.75x19 With Prowheel rim mounted to 5405 with 11/12(3 -2.7mm)x 123mm spokes 18.5kg
Old wheel Bomber wheel with Duro Razorback Tuffy and Slime 17kg

the Shinko is about 10mm less diameter with full tread over Duro with no tread.

What Preasure do you run with the Shinko? I tried 30PSI last night but seem to get a lot of handle bar shake back and forth over small bumps(corrugations). I do agree with the guy on the main bomber thread that the Bomber has a little to much fork rake. steeper fork angle I think would help with this. I don't know how Rix goes with the 17 on the back must handle like a chopper.

 

[Rix]

Lowbank, when I ran the 17Mc with the 24MTB on the front, I ran the forks soft and droped the fork tubes in the tripple clamp to negate some of the slack. It worked. Because the 24MTB wheel is about 2/3" or 16mm smaller on radius than a 26MTB, you can drop the fork to about 16mm below the max line and still have enough clearnce for the tire not to hit the bottom tripple clamp. The catch is, you loose a littel pedal clearance as well. It was stable enough when I did this that I could take my hands off the handle bars and coast straight at speeds above 40MPH. BTW, your bike looks super awesome. So.... how do you like it. Try it wiht 23 to 24 PSI. It will soften hits up on washboared terrain, I wouldn't go below 20 PSI as the bead could slip between the tire and rim.

Rick

 

[DeathBlade]

So last quick check for anybody with a cromotor and a 19x1.8" prowheel, the spoke calculator gave me 128mm that sound right?

 

[Rix]

So last quick check for anybody with a cromotor and a 19x1.8" prowheel, the spoke calculator gave me 128mm that sound right?

They should work, I spoke with a guy on the Raptor thread who laced a cromotor to a 19x1.4 Prowheel racing rim, he said his spokes were 128mm. As rims get wider, the rim well depth is deeper decreasing ERD slighty. So with your 128mm, you may need to grind a couple after truing.

Rick

 

[amberwolf]

I have seen your bike, its large to say the least, I imagine you could haul alot of cargo, get groceries for a month in one trip, stuff like that. When you get your MC wheel built, please post a pic of it. Would like to see CB2 with MC wheel.

It's actually gonna be a whole "new" bike, in this thread here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=31255&p=903948#p886588
mostly cuz it would take so long to do the mods to an existing bike that it'd be out of action way too long. So CB2 will stay as-is till the other one is built, and hopefully be able to remain intact as a "spare" bike. (and a piece of "history")

 

[100volts+]

I am close to pulling the trigger on a 17" motorcycle rim for my Cromotor which is currently housed in a hefty 26" bicycle rim. Wouldn't using a 17" motorcycle rim be about the same as using a 22" bicycle rim? (A 19" mc rim is comparable to a 24" bicycle rim it looks like to me.)

 

[pucksterpete]

I am close to pulling the trigger on a 17" motorcycle rim for my Cromotor which is currently housed in a hefty 26" bicycle rim. Wouldn't using a 17" motorcycle rim be about the same as using a 22" bicycle rim? (A 19" mc rim is comparable to a 24" bicycle rim it looks like to me.)

I was in the same boat as you, I can tell you that going from a 26" to a 17" has really kept the Cromotor Temps cool. Plus, no more flats. Noth sure about the size of a 17" compared to a 24". I know Rix has ran different rims & tires. He was a very BIG help with my switch over, he'll probably chime in. Here are some pics of my 17" and a 26" on front. Good luck

 

[Rix]

Bonjour Monsieur Pete, merci beaucoup pour les bons mots bon ami, but you give to much credit, just helped with some spoke and tire calculations. Glad you are liking the 17 on the rear. Its hard to be the performance of a smaller diameter wheel/tire/rim combo on hub motors. Been meaning to ask you, how fast does your machine go?

100volts, unless you are running a small MC tire on a 17" rim, your tires outer diameter will be closer, if not over the 23" mark. Running the 3.00x17 Shinko SR241, expect about 23.6 inches or so on a 17x1.4 rim. The SR241 2.75x17 is about 23.3 inches, the 2.75x17 IRCTR1 is about 23.3 but 1/2 inch narrower than the SR241 2.75x17. Both 2.75x17 and 3.00x17 Michelin M62 Gazelles are just barely over the 23" mark and almost 3.5 inches wide, this is the only tire that I couldn't visually tell much a difference in width and height between the 2.75x17 and 3.00x17 as they were really close on both aspects, the tape revealed about 1/8th difference in OD and 1/16th narrower for the 2.75x17 M62, that's it. Any average knobby tire that is 70/100x17 will also fit a 17x1.4 rim and will be between 22.75 to 23" in OD as well and figure about 3 inches wide. The above measurements I referenced were of all tires I had measured myself and tried when I ran the 17x1.4 on my Bomber, those measurements will vary differently than what he manufacture says. Any other Qs, just ask.

Rick

 

[100volts+]

100volts, unless you are running a small MC tire on a 17" rim, your tires outer diameter will be closer, if not over the 23" mark.

Perfect.

 

[crezzy2k1]

Here's my build using the following:
19" 1.4 Prowheel Rim
131mm Holmes Hobbies Custom Spokes and nipples (perfect size for this build)
Mitas H02 19x2.50 Tire. @33 PSI (Need to reduce, waaay to bumpy on hardtail) from Treatland.tv
Crystalyte 3540

Total cost was $220. I laced it up myself, don't think i did too bad a job, but time will tell

It was a pretty good weekend overall managed to get this sorted finally as my original Crystalyte rim wasn't in the best shape.
Weight penalty isn't too bad, the Crystalyte wheel was in around 19.4LBS without the tire which probably adds about 1.5 - 2LBS for the CST Cyclops 26x2.4.
With the Prowheel and Mitas tire i'm in at 26.4LBS. I do notice that i'm using quite a bit more power at cruising speed but take off has improved slightly and it certainly feels much more stable at higher speeds. Although at the moment it can be a little on the bumpy side, but its a hardtail so too be expected with all the weight. Also i noticed that the brakes require more of a pull, (think it might be time for some new pads though)

My reasons for going to MC(moped) wheel are stability and tire wear, the CST Cyclops was pretty worn down after just 500 miles i'm hoping to get at least 5000 miles out of the Mitas. We'll see how that goes
After:

Before:

 

[Rix]

Here's my build using the following:
19" 1.4 Prowheel Rim
131mm Holmes Hobbies Custom Spokes and nipples (perfect size for this build)
Mitas H02 19x2.50 Tire. @33 PSI (Need to reduce, waaay to bumpy on hardtail) from Treatland.tv
Crystalyte 3540

Total cost was $220. I laced it up myself, don't think i did too bad a job, but time will tell

It was a pretty good weekend overall managed to get this sorted finally as my original Crystalyte rim wasn't in the best shape.
Weight penalty isn't too bad, the Crystalyte wheel was in around 19.4LBS without the tire which probably adds about 1.5 - 2LBS for the CST Cyclops 26x2.4.
With the Prowheel and Mitas tire i'm in at 26.4LBS. I do notice that i'm using quite a bit more power at cruising speed but take off has improved slightly and it certainly feels much more stable at higher speeds. Although at the moment it can be a little on the bumpy side, but its a hardtail so too be expected with all the weight. Also i noticed that the brakes require more of a pull, (think it might be time for some new pads though)

My reasons for going to MC(moped) wheel are stability and tire wear, the CST Cyclops was pretty worn down after just 500 miles i'm hoping to get at least 5000 miles out of the Mitas. We'll see how that goes
After:
]
Before:
[/attachment]

Man I like your build thanks for posting the pic. I know what you mean, the MC tires do use a tad more current. But cruising around pedal assisting when you can, it won't be much. I remembered running the 5403 with the 24TMB and then with the 19x1.4 MC wheel. At WOT with the 24MTB razorback, I was using 3500-3600wh to maintain 50+ Mph, with the 19x1.4 running the 2.75x19 SR241, I was using around 3750wh to maintain over 50MPH. I the only time I paid attention to wh was at WOT and the MC rear does use a tad bit more to do it.

 

[crezzy2k1]

Thanks Rix i appreciate the feedback. Yeah its not a lot more consumption and i'm willing to put up with it as it the bike has been transformed with that tire its soooo much more stable. I've been thinking about this for a while and with all the info i've been reading on this thread and throughout ES i decided to pull the trigger and get it done

Next on my list is to build up a Greyborg frame as it just makes so much sense for me with the centered batteries and being full suspension and all. But for now i'm really happy with this build... until something breaks of course which is common with this bike :x

 

[Rix]

Thanks Rix i appreciate the feedback. Yeah its not a lot more consumption and i'm willing to put up with it as it the bike has been transformed with that tire its soooo much more stable. I've been thinking about this for a while and with all the info i've been reading on this thread and throughout ES i decided to pull the trigger and get it done

Next on my list is to build up a Greyborg frame as it just makes so much sense for me with the centered batteries and being full suspension and all. But for now i'm really happy with this build... until something breaks of course which is common with this bike :x

You should talk with Ken, AKA Pendragon on ES, he has broken his 3rd axle now (I think) on his HT3525. Glad you like the motor wheel, wait till you ride in loos off road or snow, that will sell the MC wheel for sure.

Rick

 

[pucksterpete]

Well, the front rim has been down sized from a 26" to a 17". Feels more stable, responsiveness is a little slower, geometry feels fine. But I have a question, I have noticed an increase in temperature on the motor. Before with a 26" upfront & 17" in the rear, she ran cool, but now after riding today for the first time with the 17" front & rear, she has ran hotter; is the 17" front the reason?

Bonjour Monsieur Pete, merci beaucoup pour les bons mots bon ami, but you give to much credit, just helped with some spoke and tire calculations. Glad you are liking the 17 on the rear. Its hard to be the performance of a smaller diameter wheel/tire/rim combo on hub motors. Been meaning to ask you, how fast does your machine go? Rick

Hey Rick, you been a BIG help! Now on 24s & the 17" rim, I can get her to 55mph, before it was a little over 60mph with 26" rim. She's fast enough.....

Oh by the way the spokes I ordered for the front ended up being 4mm too long, that's my fault, so had some grinding to do.

Also, with the dropping both the front & rear, I got pedal strike!!!!, So it's either cut and re-tap or buy a smaller crank arms. Will see. Never finished!!!! Here some today pics.

 

[Rix]

DAMN PETE, that looks AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 17 front and rear look super motard to the max. That looks sweet. When I put the 19x1.4 MC wheel on the front of the Bomber running the SR241, I notice some increase in WH consumption as well. The only thing I can think of is the heavier front wheel ads to the scavenging effect of rotational mass weight increase. On the rear, its not a big deal because the hub motor is so heavy anyway. But look at it in percentages. When I laced my Rear MC to the hub motor on my Bomber, the weight went from 37 to 42 pounds, but slight decrease in over all diameter. So percentage wise, I gained about 12% weight increase, but gained about 3% more mechanical leverage increase. Well that off set the 12% weight increase a little bit. Bu the front, you probably went from a 7 pound or so wheel/rim/tire increase to about 12 pounds. Well thats about 66% increase in wheight on rotation mass with about a 5-6% decrease in diameter. I believe this has an effect on why more WH are needed for speed. That being said, you noted yourself that the handeling is better and more stable. Wait until you ride the cobble stone roads of down town paris after a rainstorm, you will notice a HUGE increase in wet wheather performance.

Rick

 

[pucksterpete]

Thanks Rick...With the heat, I'll just have to pull over and give her a rest. Fixed the pedal strike, changed out the 170mm crank to a 140mm, came from one my young daughter's bike. It only has 2 chaingrings 28t & 38t, good enough if I run out of juice to pedal home with.

Pete

 

[skeetab5780]

Thanks Rick...With the heat, I'll just have to pull over and give her a rest. Fixed the pedal strike, changed out the 170mm crank to a 140mm, came from one my young daughter's bike. It only has 2 chaingrings 28t & 38t, good enough if I run out of juice to pedal home with.

Pete

Grats on the new wheels Pete!

Rockin' the 1 decade ago VOLOCI tires! I use them too(and have a spare set). I like them a lot but am having second thoughts about the pedal clearance, they have a fairly small diameter so top speed is effected. But I tend to pedal a lot and ride trails that are pretty rough. I've been thinking of going 19" hehe which means ill have tons of 17" stuff sitting around

 

[mafo]

Hi,

i already bought http://www.excel-rim.com/ 19'' x 1.85 for shinko 244 2,75 http://www.shinkotireusa.com/tire/244-series
thank to GCinDC it was easy as a piece of cake, rim 100$ + 40$ for the tire

can i get some custom length spokes in Black?! have You seen any? for 3525 motor
Europe.

 

[wingsuit]

How important is lining up the direction of the nipple to where the spoke is headed. I did it correct on the rear wheel but just noticed on the front I messed it up, must have twisted the wrong dir when starting the back tension spokes. It creates a super subtle s-bend over the length of the spoke. Is this a pull apart and start again mistake?