19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[SkyknightJohn]

I assume those weights are backwards and that the 1.4 is lighter?

*fixed! Thanks.
I was surprised at the difference as well, but I'm guessing it's because you make it wider in the middle, meaty section of the rim, adding a fair bit of material. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the scales I used, they're just old postal scales at work.Their limits are 5 lbs / 2.2 kg.

I like the wider rims myself. Fat is Phat

At the power levels you run, I would go fatter too. I'm still low and slow, so every bit helps. (says the man with an 85 lb. bike... 8) )

Glad you did it with different colored rims

Ha Ha! Well, that's only because I couldn't get a 36h 19x1.4 in red.
My JRH spokes arrived today. I took my MAC out of it's rim, and hope to be laced up by then end of the week. (also have some re-wiring to do...)

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Glad to see that I am not the only one to be lacing a M/C rim to a MAC. Mine is 6T and will be run at 72 volts I have a feeling I will be going for a 10T in the future though. I still need to get spokes though. I think I am just going to go with with 13g spokes. I really don't want to drill the motor and its not like I am running 5kw through it. The Holmes spokes are nice but at $2 a pop it is very pricey and I can get both of my wheels laced up for half that at my LBS. I will just use washers and maybe double them up. As soon as my front hub gets here, the spokes will be done. For my rims though, I am using 19 x 2.15 for the rear and 19 x 1.85 for the front. I had to move the rear wheel back 1.5 inches to a wider part of the rim for the wider rim to fit so I couldn't use Kiwi's drop outs.

Getting close...

 

[SkyknightJohn]

I didn't have to drill the hub to fit the Holmes spokes, just ran a 1/8" bit by hand to clean out what looked like powder coat overspray. (can add a pic later) (*edit-added pics)

In the second pic, the top hole has been reamed while the bottom on has not. Not sure if you can see the difference, but it was the difference between fitting and not fitting. Really only took a twist or two by hand.
The spokes are snug, but not tight or binding. (only one side loosely laced atm) My MAC is an older gen 8t, and can't hanle the higher voltage. Maybe next motor/frame/battery.

*edit- Finished lacing it during a slow day at work. Not tight or trued yet. I have all the spoke heads on the outside, although the original had all the spoke heads on the drive side, but that didn't look right with these spokes.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

That is a great looking wheel.

I am waiting for mine to come back from painting. I decided to paint it the same pearl white that the bike is going to be. Afterward, I thought about the brake dust and thought that maybe white wasn't the smartest choice but it is too late now. My hub finally came in so I can at least order the spokes.

What tire are you putting on it?

 

[SkyknightJohn]

I'm going with the Vee Rubber VRM 013 moped tire. 19 x 2.25

https://www.treatland.tv/vee-rubber-vrm013-moped-tire-19-x-2-25-p/vee-rubber-vrm013-19x2.25.htm
Rated 43J = 62mph (99.7kph) and 342lbs (155kg).

Here's the finished product... all trued up. & a cleaner background.

Afterward, I thought about the brake dust...

"God made dirt... Dirt don't hurt"

 

[Rix]

Very nice lace job SkyNJohn, the spoke hole angles look perfect for the MAC. That will make for a very strong wheel.

 

[Rix]

Nice Skynight John, You weighed the 19x1.4 rim at 2.55 pounds, I am wondering if the painted rims are a little heavier than the polished? I get 2 pounds on the scale. Of course this is bathroom scales. You will like the 1.4 better.

Paint has to weigh something. And, if you're like me, I have a hard time seeing a half-pound on a bathroom scale.
Here are two side-by-side for comparison.
]

Yah, I don't think for a second the rim paint by itself would equate to 1/2 pound, and it would be a far strectch as well between polishing the rim which does remove a little bit of material, and the increaseed weight of coloring could come out to a weight difference, more than likely there is a small margin of error with my method of weighing the rims on bathroom scales.

Rick

 

[Hyena]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the scales I used, they're just old postal scales at work.Their limits are 5 lbs / 2.2 kg

Oh if they only go to 2.2kg then they probably ARE quite accurate in the sort of range we're talking. Have you got a bag of flour or sugar or rice or something in your cupboard with the weight printed on it that you could use to test ? This will confirm if the scales are accurate to within a few % which is good enough for our purposes. But didn't you say previously you use bathroom scales ?

 

[Rix]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the scales I used, they're just old postal scales at work.Their limits are 5 lbs / 2.2 kg

Oh if they only go to 2.2kg then they probably ARE quite accurate in the sort of range we're talking. Have you got a bag of flour or sugar or rice or something in your cupboard with the weight printed on it that you could use to test ? This will confirm if the scales are accurate to within a few % which is good enough for our purposes. But didn't you say previously you use bathroom scales ?

No Jay, I am the bathroom scale guy, SK John uses this more precise scale

 

[Mammalian04]

Hey guys,

I have a set of 19x1.4 and a set of 19x1.85 prowheel at Voltriders. I am having John lace up the fronts with his spokes (he said 13g is the largest i can go) but he said i need to get the rear 8g from Buchanan. John is pretty busy at the moment and is not able answer these questions so maybe you guys can help.

Question 1: since my Cromotors and wheels aren't with me, is there a way to calculate the following requsted spoke specs for Buchanan for the 19x1.4 and 19x1.85 wheel spokes (8g)?
-Diameter of Spoke
-Diameter of nipple
-Length of spoke (straight part only including threads but not bend)
-Degree of bend
-Effective throat length (excluding the bend)

Question 2: I would like to match a front hub to my blue prowheel rim. Any thoughts on the best hub to go with? I am thinking Hope Pro 2 Evo Front Hub - 20mm in anodized blue so that i can match the blue Prowheel.

Question 3: Will any 19x2.75 tube work for both the 19x1.4 and 19x1.85 wheels or should I be looking for something special for each? Is there also a protective band that needs to go around the wheel before the tube? I see some people have that in their parts list - 18" band for a 19" wheels (so it can stretch on tight?).

When i get the rear spokes and front hub to John, he can lace and I'll post up the final product wrapped in Shinko SR241 19x2.75. UPS dropped me 4 Shinkos this week. They are smaller than I thought.

 

[Rix]

Hey guys,

I have a set of 19x1.4 and a set of 19x1.85 prowheel at Voltriders. I am having John lace up the fronts with his spokes (he said 13g is the largest i can go) but he said i need to get the rear 8g from Buchanan. John is pretty busy at the moment and is not able answer these questions so maybe you guys can help.

Question 1: since my Cromotors and wheels aren't with me, is there a way to calculate the following requsted spoke specs for Buchanan for the 19x1.4 and 19x1.85 wheel spokes (8g)?
-Diameter of Spoke
-Diameter of nipple
-Length of spoke (straight part only including threads but not bend)
-Degree of bend
-Effective throat length (excluding the bend)

Question 2: I would like to match a front hub to my blue prowheel rim. Any thoughts on the best hub to go with? I am thinking Hope Pro 2 Evo Front Hub - 20mm in anodized blue so that i can match the blue Prowheel.

Question 3: Will any 19x2.75 tube work for both the 18x1.4 and 19x1.85 wheels or should I be looking for something special for each? Is there also a protective band that needs to go around the wheel before the tube? I see some people have that in their parts list - 18" band for a 19" wheels (so it can stretch on tight?).

When i get the rear spokes and front hub to John, he can lace and I'll post up the final product wrapped in Shinko SR241 19x2.75. UPS dropped me 4 Shinkos this week. They are smaller than I thought.

Well I know for fact that the depending on which spoke nipples are used for determining ERD for the 19x1.4 prowheel racing rim, we get 470mm on average, sometimes a little more such as with my long 18mm nipples, sometimes a little less such as with 14mm long nipples. Either way, 470mm is a good number to work with. With that known number, we can use EBikes.CA spoke calculator to figure your spoke length. If I remember correclty the Cromotor is about 235mm x45mm wide we know your spoke length will be about 130mm. If using 18mm long nipples, knock off 2mm to avoid the need to grind after truing. If you want to use 8G spokes, that is really close to 3.6mm spoke diamters with 6.4mmx18mm spoke nipples for 3.6mm spokes. A 6.4mm spoke nipple will require a 5.5-5.6mm spoke wrench. Can't use a 19x2.75 tube on an 18" MC tire. Need to stick with an 18MC tube with in the size perameters of the tire being ran. The folks at Buchanen are perfectionist with cutting spokes for people. They are going to want to know how wide the inside of the "L" bend will need to be in Diameter. Mic the width of your spoke flange and add 2mm for outside spokes and 1mm for inside spokes. The outside L bends will be around 100 degrees and the the inside will be 90. You can just add 2mm to what every your spoke flange width and bend to 90 degrees and this will give you enough extra room for the spoke to clear the flange at the "L" bend and line up with the nipple on the outside. I have one rim where the spokes L bends are 4mm wider than the thickness of the flange, they work and don't seem to move around at all as long as tension is properly tightened. A true wheel smith wont like this and caution against it though. Hope this answers your questions.

Rick

 

[Rix]

I didn't have to drill the hub to fit the Holmes spokes, just ran a 1/8" bit by hand to clean out what looked like powder coat overspray. (can add a pic later) (*edit-added pics)

In the second pic, the top hole has been reamed while the bottom on has not. Not sure if you can see the difference, but it was the difference between fitting and not fitting. Really only took a twist or two by hand.
The spokes are snug, but not tight or binding. (only one side loosely laced atm) My MAC is an older gen 8t, and can't hanle the higher voltage. Maybe next motor/frame/battery.

*edit- Finished lacing it during a slow day at work. Not tight or trued yet. I have all the spoke heads on the outside, although the original had all the spoke heads on the drive side, but that didn't look right with these spokes.

Just noticed this, but how come you went with all inside flange exits with the spokes? Lost some of the triangle affect you get from inside and outside alternating which the wheel will be just a little less stiff with lateral loads. Looks great thought.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

The original wheel had all the spokes exiting toward the drive side, spoke heads toward brake side (first two pics here) I assume to help with dish. (*also, I ordered the spokes at 157 & 159mm for dish, and asked Holmes Hobbies to double check my calculations. They gave me an ERD of 465mm & all spokes 155mm, FWIW) I planned to lace it this way again. When I laced up the first side with the JRH spokes, the hub was WAY offset from the rim and the second side spokes would not come close. I was going to try alternating, so that spokes that cross would have more separation. In the third pic, you can see how the spokes do not make the turn around the hub flange very well. Remember, this lower part of the spoke is 11ga... THICK! I'm putting a fair amount of tension on it just to get it as pictured, and did not want to bend the spokes too much or damage the hub flange.

 

[madin88]

when lacing a front hub, i also noticed the spokes didn't make the turn around the hub flange well. I think it was because of the very tight fit between spokes an hub holes. so i bent all the heads of the outer spokes to the right angle. you can put them into the hub and bend or you can use a round needle nose pliers. i guess it will not hurt the spokes. will it?

 

[Rix]

The original wheel had all the spokes exiting toward the drive side, spoke heads toward brake side (first two pics here) I assume to help with dish. (*also, I ordered the spokes at 157 & 159mm for dish, and asked Holmes Hobbies to double check my calculations. They gave me an ERD of 469mm & all spokes 155mm, FWIW) I planned to lace it this way again. When I laced up the first side with the JRH spokes, the hub was WAY offset from the rim and the second side spokes would not come close. I was going to try alternating, so that spokes that cross would have more separation. In the third pic, you can see how the spokes do not make the turn around the hub flange very well. Remember, this lower part of the spoke is 11ga... THICK! I'm putting a fair amount of tension on it just to get it as pictured, and did not want to bend the spokes too much or damage the hub flange.

[]

I see what you mean with the spokes not making the turn around the hub flange. Would have been nice if there was some 100-110 degree bends there, or more commonly referred to as "J" bends. Your wheel looks fine. Sometimes you just got to improvise. Thanks for responding to my questions, makes perfect sense.

 

[mafo]

this tire did not fit in my frame exactly, too fat.
had to cut edges a bit as on second image.

thanks a lot for tutorial

 

[Rix]

[quotethis tire did not fit in my frame exactly, too fat.
had to cut edges a bit as on second image.

thanks a lot for tutorial ][/quote]

You made it fit and that's what counts. So you oil cooled your 3525, hows that working?

 

[mafo]

You made it fit and that's what counts. So you oil cooled your 3525, hows that working?

So it need refill about 3 times a year or so to keep temp on good level while whole trip without stops.
trips are about that: 10 of 15ah 18s so it pass my needs in forest or termac, thinking about adding some cells to 24s (separate charging this 6s 15ah pack)

oil - it should be a bit thick one but in right amount to avoid dragging.

rear brake - i use throttle regen with variable amperage - it's ok, and to stop ofcourse normal brakes , if i do not want to generate oil brake sound i use front one.

 

[Mammalian04]

So it need refill about 3 times a year or so to keep temp on good level while whole trip without stops.

Is the oil leaking out noticeably? i.e. Does it drip on the garage floor when sitting for a week?

 

[Rix]

You made it fit and that's what counts. So you oil cooled your 3525, hows that working?

So it need refill about 3 times a year or so to keep temp on good level while whole trip without stops.
trips are about that: 10 of 15ah 18s so it pass my needs in forest or termac, thinking about adding some cells to 24s (separate charging this 6s 15ah pack)

oil - it should be a bit thick one but in right amount to avoid dragging.

rear brake - i use throttle regen with variable amperage - it's ok, and to stop ofcourse normal brakes , if i do not want to generate oil brake sound i use front one.

Thats very interesting. Is your oil loss due to heat break down or is leaking/seeping out a little? How much are you adding each time?

 

[mafo]

oil leakin is doing all the time while running by the axle side especially cables.
when You stop and do not clean it, floor will get the oil, if You use carpet - it's problem

i keep oil level under few centimeters from axle level.

and its good to keep bike in vertical

 

[Rix]

oil leakin is doing all the time while running by the axle side especially cables.
when You stop and do not clean it, floor will get the oil, if You use carpet - it's problem

i keep oil level under few centimeters from axle level.

and its good to keep bike in vertical

I can see how that would get a little messy. When some of your oil has leaked out after you fill it, does the amount of oil leaking around the axle become less?

 

[GCinDC]

hey rix,

check out this thread: Oil cooling your hub- NOT snake oil! - it's not been updated recently, but was a 'hot' topic - or should i say 'cool' topic awhile back...

i gave it a go for a while but got fed up with leaking and decided air vents were just about as good - and a heck of a lot better than non-vented sidecovers!

 

[Rix]

hey rix,

check out this thread: Oil cooling your hub- NOT snake oil! - it's not been updated recently, but was a 'hot' topic - or should i say 'cool' topic awhile back...

i gave it a go for a while but got fed up with leaking and decided air vents were just about as good - and a heck of a lot better than non-vented sidecovers!

Thanks GC, I will give it a look. I have had great success in venting hub motors, haven't tried oil cooling on anything yet, for the reason you cited, its messy. Even if it doesn't leak, when its time to pop the covers, got to deal with it then.

 

[mafo]

in addidtion,

i use hole in side plate of ht35, with ususal screw in it. its very simple to add oil without going mad.