19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[Rix]

wonder if this is common of MC rims but see below it has 2 valve holes almost across from each other

Missed this,
Blue Prius, the reason our rim has "2 Valve holes" is one is for a bead lock, which you don't need to run as long as your keep your tire @ or above 20psi. Yah the 21" MC rim is comparable to the 26 MTB rim the same as the 19MC rim is to the 24MTB. I know I have raved about the SR241, but I would consider running a Vee Rubber VRM 308F 2.75-21 or a VRM 021 2.75-21 on your wheel. I don't know how much weight savings you will get, but sectional widths of these tires will be about 1/2" narrower than the SR 241.

 

[100volts+]

I have a Cromotor laced into a 26 inch bicycle tire. In the interest of slightly better efficiency and better tire life I want to lace it into a 19 inch pro-wheel. I'm going to order spokes from JRH and I'll order 36 126.4 mm 11/12 gauge spokes and nipples and washers. I didn't see a gauge so I'll order standard 12 gauge with moped/MC rim nipple/washer set: Does that sound right?

 

[SkyknightJohn]

I didn't see a gauge

If you're looking at the "Holmes custom moped spokes" on this page: http://holmeshobbies.com/Holmes-Custom-Moped-Spokes.html then yes, they are 11ga at the hub and taper to 12ga for the rim. With these spokes and the nipples that come with them (Spoke includes matching nipple), you won't need washers. (he also sells straight gauge Sapim spokes, currently I'm only seeing 14ga on his site.)

 

[Rix]

I have a Cromotor laced into a 26 inch bicycle tire. In the interest of slightly better efficiency and better tire life I want to lace it into a 19 inch pro-wheel. I'm going to order spokes from JRH and I'll order 36 126.4 mm 11/12 gauge spokes and nipples and washers. I didn't see a gauge so I'll order standard 12 gauge with moped/MC rim nipple/washer set: Does that sound right?

You didn't specify, but as long as its the 19x1.4 Prowheel racing rim, then what SK John said is correct, you wont need washers. Now if you are running their 19x1.85 or 19x 2.15, those spoke holes are much larger and you will need washers with the Holmes spokes and nipples.

Rick

 

[100volts+]

I went to the prowheel web site and found 1.4x19 inch pro wheel rims, they say front wheel rims. Does it make a difference if the size, width, and number of spoke holes is what I want for the hubmotor in the rear?

http://www.prowheelracing.com/honda-kawasaki-suzuki-mini-bike-front-rim-1-40-x-19-black/

 

[Rix]

I went to the prowheel web site and found 1.4x19 inch pro wheel rims, they say front wheel rims. Does it make a difference if the size, width, and number of spoke holes is what I want for the hubmotor in the rear?

http://www.prowheelracing.com/honda-kawasaki-suzuki-mini-bike-front-rim-1-40-x-19-black/

Yes, it makes a difference, for best results, go with the Prowheel racing Yamaha Playbike 19x1.4 front rim in the color of your choice or whats available. This is the only rim in the 19x1.4 size that comes with 36 hole drill.

 

[douglashart]

maybe you guys can help me. Im building a bike but haven't got the motor yet . luv the cromo and I want one but im not sure it will suit my needs. I like the available speed it provides and could certainly use 35mph at times but im sure ill be just putting for the most part, trying to mizer watts at 12-13mph. is there any efficiency issues running at such a speed? would I be better off with a lesser wattage motor? I overkill but is this too much? thinking about going with an 18 inch wheel to try and get closer to the power range. thnx

 

[Mammalian04]

... could certainly use 35mph at times but im sure ill be just putting for the most part, trying to mizer watts at 12-13mph. is there any efficiency issues running at such a speed?

Doug, I recently crossed this bridge is well. I ordered two Cromotors for my bike builds. Upon further research, I realized that the Cromotor is not well suited for low speeds and hill climbing at slow speeds. With enough amps, it will climb at slow speeds but it will also be dumping TONS of heat in the motor and wasting battery power. As such, I have decided to install a mid drive motor on one of the bikes. I will then compare the Cromotor to the mid drive when I get everything put together. Check out LightningRods mid drive kit at the link below.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57720

 

[douglashart]

thnx mammal, ill look for your reviews . what I was wondering today is how the cromo would act as pedal assist (low speed) and if that might temper the losses

 

[Rix]

maybe you guys can help me. Im building a bike but haven't got the motor yet . luv the cromo and I want one but im not sure it will suit my needs. I like the available speed it provides and could certainly use 35mph at times but im sure ill be just putting for the most part, trying to mizer watts at 12-13mph. is there any efficiency issues running at such a speed? would I be better off with a lesser wattage motor? I overkill but is this too much? thinking about going with an 18 inch wheel to try and get closer to the power range. thnx

Doug, you make want to look at a 4080. Running 12s, 14s, 16s (50-66volts) with 40amps , good for 30-43MPH, more with your over % settings. I think it was Cowardly duck who actually got 42MPH @ 50 volts with his speed setting programmed at 120%. Weighs 8 pounds less than the cromotor, 150 bucks cheaper as well. I am currently running a 4080 on my Fighter with an 18x1.4 MC rim and a 2.75-18, great combo. I am seeing around 37MPH with my stock Fighter pack.

 

[madin88]

Doug, I recently crossed this bridge is well. I ordered two Cromotors for my bike builds. Upon further research, I realized that the Cromotor is not well suited for low speeds and hill climbing at slow speeds. With enough amps, it will climb at slow speeds but it will also be dumping TONS of heat in the motor and wasting battery power. As such, I have decided to install a mid drive motor on one of the bikes. I will then compare the Cromotor to the mid drive when I get everything put together. Check out LightningRods mid drive kit at the link below.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57720

Cromotor is a good choice for a efficient street racer but not so good for climbing hills in hilly terrain. It will overheat soon and due to hubmotor construction it will take very long to cool down. you sure will have more fun with a lightning rods (big block ) mid drive for this purpose and it is alot more lightweight..

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Hi, I thought I'd update. I laced up the front wheel yesterday and mounted the tire this evening. I like it. I believe that if the $20 price tag is not a big influence the IRC GP1 is the better choice for a front motorcycle tire. The tread does not extend past the sidewalls so there is no cutting required, it is lighter and has a similar tread pattern to the shinko 244 so it would not look weird to use a shinko on the back and an IRC GP1 up front.

I used standard 13g spokes in a 2x pattern for the front. I had issues with the washers though. A number 8 had the perfect sized hole but was too close in diameter to the rim's hole. A number 10 washer was large enough in diameter that there is no way it would pull through the rim but the nipple head might pull through the hole. I ended up using both. Not ideal, I know, but it was necessary. There is no way I am getting the tapered moped spokes on the front rim. I barely managed to get the 13g spokes to fit the hub. Here is my shenanigans with the washers:

Inside:



outside:



Now, it just so happens that I took the "inside" picture inside the house and the "outside" picture outside my house, this was unintentional but mildly ironic. Also, I am aware that I need to power wash the patio so leave it alone -

Here are some pics of the completed wheel:





I really like the way it turned out. It is tight and true. I am starting to get a little antsy about the progress on the DH Comp.

Edit: FYI this is a 19 x 1.85. The rear is a 19 x 2.15 so I am not sure if I am going to like the IRC on it.

 

[GCinDC]

I really like the way it turned out. It is tight and true. I am starting to get a little antsy about the progress on the DH Comp.

so you built that wheel for a dh comp? please tell me you built it on the bike, or at least planned for the offset, assuming it's an 02-04 dh comp... otherwise, i think you'll be re-truing, if not ordering new spokes!

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

I really like the way it turned out. It is tight and true. I am starting to get a little antsy about the progress on the DH Comp.

so you built that wheel for a dh comp? please tell me you built it on the bike, or at least planned for the offset, assuming it's an 02-04 dh comp... otherwise, i think you'll be re-truing, if not ordering new spokes!

I don't think that you read the post carefully enough. this is the front wheel. There is very little dishing needed on a front wheel - just a few mm on the disc brake side. But to answer your question, yes, I trued the wheel in the fork - twice. Once with just the rim and then I installed the tire and tweeked it just a bit to make sure the tire was centered.

I know it is a bit unconventional but it is not shocking. :lol:

the rear rim will be laced to a MAC but it is apart right now. I am trying to figure out how to increase the gauge of the phase wires and also I am will be installing a couple of the metal gears from lyen if he has any left. But, even though I have a 2002 , I cut the drop outs off and I am installing new drop outs. In doing so, I actually have an extra 5 mm to play with so I can use washers to space the wheel as well as dish the rim. I got this figured out - sorta.

 

[bjamin]

Ch00p those look awesome. If you get a second, could you please share what the max width of the GP1 rubber on the 19x1.85? I'm wondering if I can fit these on a swingarm that measures 2.75".
Also, you mentioned you might not like the GP1 on the rear 19x2.15. Is that just because the rim is wider and you're thinking the tire might look odd?

 

[mafo]

I ve used blades to fit shinko in my frame . actuallyu i have cutted out in sum about 2cm.

 

[GCinDC]

... I'm going to order spokes from JRH and I'll order 36 126.4 mm 11/12 gauge spokes and nipples and washers. I didn't see a gauge so I'll order standard 12 gauge with moped/MC rim nipple/washer set: Does that sound right?

You didn't specify, but as long as its the 19x1.4 Prowheel racing rim, then what SK John said is correct, you wont need washers. Now if you are running their 19x1.85 or 19x 2.15, those spoke holes are much larger and you will need washers with the Holmes spokes and nipples.

Rick

sweet! so now we don't need washers when we get this wheel: Yamaha Play Bike Front Rim - 1.40" x 19" - Black and this spoke/nipple set: Holmes Custom Moped Spokes? woohoo.

i assume we'll need the 90degree elbow type, right? if so, now we just need to wait until they (and the wheels!) are back in stock?

btw, is it a fair bit more difficult to install the tire on the 1.4? since there's so much rubber and less room to slide the bead into the groove, i'd guess so, but curious to hear from those who've done it..

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Ch00p those look awesome. If you get a second, could you please share what the max width of the GP1 rubber on the 19x1.85? I'm wondering if I can fit these on a swingarm that measures 2.75".
Also, you mentioned you might not like the GP1 on the rear 19x2.15. Is that just because the rim is wider and you're thinking the tire might look odd?

The max width is 1/32 too wide for your swing arm. it is 2 25/32". The issue you may have is that the tread doesn't stick out very far so there is not a lot of room to shave.

You hit the nail on the head with why I am a little concerned about the GP1 on the 2.15 rim. it is possible that hthe tread area will just flatten a a bit and it will look fine or the worst case scenario is that it will look like those hopped up "ricers" that put tire that are too small on rims that are too wide and it looks ridiculous.

I got an email from Edward Lyen regarding the MAC gear so hopefully I will have the gears next week and can lace up the rear wheel. I am dying to see what the Pearl White MAC will look like with the blue rim.

'Cal

Edit: I forgot to Capitalize Mr. Lyen's last name and that was just disrespectful.

 

[Mammalian04]

Here are some pics of the completed wheel:

View attachment 1

Hey Ch00p, what kind of front hub is that? I see in your build thread you say "Czechoslovakia." Is that really the name?

 

[bjamin]

Ch00p those look awesome. If you get a second, could you please share what the max width of the GP1 rubber on the 19x1.85? I'm wondering if I can fit these on a swingarm that measures 2.75".
Also, you mentioned you might not like the GP1 on the rear 19x2.15. Is that just because the rim is wider and you're thinking the tire might look odd?

The max width is 1/32 too wide for your swing arm. it is 2 25/32". The issue you may have is that the tread doesn't stick out very far so there is not a lot of room to shave.

You hit the nail on the head with why I am a little concerned about the GP1 on the 2.15 rim. it is possible that hthe tread area will just flatten a a bit and it will look fine or the worst case scenario is that it will look like those hopped up "ricers" that put tire that are too small on rims that are too wide and it looks ridiculous.

Thanks for the quick measurement. Sounds like it might be a bit too close for comfort for my build.
From seeing the tire geometry in person though, do you think there's any reason why installing the GP-1 on the smaller 1.40" rim would shave a bit off of the overall width?

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Ch00p those look awesome. If you get a second, could you please share what the max width of the GP1 rubber on the 19x1.85? I'm wondering if I can fit these on a swingarm that measures 2.75".
Also, you mentioned you might not like the GP1 on the rear 19x2.15. Is that just because the rim is wider and you're thinking the tire might look odd?

The max width is 1/32 too wide for your swing arm. it is 2 25/32". The issue you may have is that the tread doesn't stick out very far so there is not a lot of room to shave.

You hit the nail on the head with why I am a little concerned about the GP1 on the 2.15 rim. it is possible that hthe tread area will just flatten a a bit and it will look fine or the worst case scenario is that it will look like those hopped up "ricers" that put tire that are too small on rims that are too wide and it looks ridiculous.

Thanks for the quick measurement. Sounds like it might be a bit too close for comfort for my build.
From seeing the tire geometry in person though, do you think there's any reason why installing the GP-1 on the smaller 1.40" rim would shave a bit off of the overall width?

I still think it would rub. The 1.4 would pull the sidewalls in by less than 1/4 inch on each side but that would not equate to 1/2 inch in thickness of the overall tire and the tread area has the most rubber and thicker belting so it is the most rigid part of the tire. It is too bad you are not close by, it would be interesting to mount it on one to see.

I am sorry, but I think that maybe you need to go with the smaller tire that one of the other members used. I think it was skynightjohn but I might be wrong.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Here are some pics of the completed wheel:

View attachment 2

Hey Ch00p, what kind of front hub is that? I see in your build thread you say "Czechoslovakia." Is that really the name?

It is the cheapest 20mm thru axle hub in existence. It is a Force brand hub sold by some dude with a hairy back and only 2 teeth who lives in the Czech Republic (I got in trouble for calling Czechksjdfhlksjh sorry can't spell it right now - too tired) I would not recommend it.

I found the vendor's picture online and he looks reputable but I don't know...



The non brake side has a much smaller diameter than the brake side and getting even 13 gauge spokes into the holes on that side was tough. They really had to be forced because of the angle. The only positive side was the price and that it was a sealed bearing hub. It was $38 for the hub and another $10 for the side spacers. I had a real hard time finding a 36h 20mm thru axle hub. there are plenty of 32h hubs cheap but not 36.

If I had it to do over again, I would either buy the Hope hub for $100 or I would buy the Prowheel rim for the 85cc "expert" bikes front wheel. it is 19 x 1.4 but has 28 holes. these are for the honda and suzuki 85cc big wheel bikes. you can find a 28 hole hub a lot easier than a 36 hole. but this would work for the front wheel only. Which, come to think of it has not yet been discussed on this thread.

So for anyone interested, another option for the front wheel (assuming a rear drive build) would be the expert 19 x 1.4 rims with a 28h hub. It also looks like the rims for the yz85 big wheel are 19 x 1.4 with 32 holes so there would be even more choices for hubs.

I guess there are a lot more options than previously determined.

But, to answer your question, I would stay away from this hub and I will be replacing it at my earliest convenience. If you really want a cheap hub though here is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/18129968775...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

[Rix]

... I'm going to order spokes from JRH and I'll order 36 126.4 mm 11/12 gauge spokes and nipples and washers. I didn't see a gauge so I'll order standard 12 gauge with moped/MC rim nipple/washer set: Does that sound right?

You didn't specify, but as long as its the 19x1.4 Prowheel racing rim, then what SK John said is correct, you wont need washers. Now if you are running their 19x1.85 or 19x 2.15, those spoke holes are much larger and you will need washers with the Holmes spokes and nipples.

Rick

sweet! so now we don't need washers when we get this wheel: Yamaha Play Bike Front Rim - 1.40" x 19" - Black and this spoke/nipple set: Holmes Custom Moped Spokes? woohoo.

i assume we'll need the 90degree elbow type, right? if so, now we just need to wait until they (and the wheels!) are back in stock?

btw, is it a fair bit more difficult to install the tire on the 1.4? since there's so much rubber and less room to slide the bead into the groove, i'd guess so, but curious to hear from those who've done it..

Yah, simple 90 "L" bends with 4-5mm spacing in between the bends will work with both inside and aout side the flange on the lace. I can take some close up pics of mine if you need to see it.

 

[100volts+]

Yah, simple 90 "L" bends with 4-5mm spacing in between the bends will work with both inside and aout side the flange on the lace.

Yes Rix, I've seen all inside flange lacing, all outside flange lacing and alternating inside outside lacing. Since seeing this topic I decided to go mc wheel, and I think I've picked the most forgiving setup. I can take my time lacing it because I bought another cromotor so I can keep my bicycle tire setup on whilst I muck about with the new paradigm in high powered bikes - hub motors mounted in mc wheels. Awesome

 

[Rix]

Yah, simple 90 "L" bends with 4-5mm spacing in between the bends will work with both inside and aout side the flange on the lace.

Yes Rix, I've seen all inside flange lacing, all outside flange lacing and alternating inside outside lacing. Since seeing this topic I decided to go mc wheel, and I think I've picked the most forgiving setup. I can take my time lacing it because I bought another cromotor so I can keep my bicycle tire setup on whilst I muck about with the new paradigm in high powered bikes - hub motors mounted in mc wheels. Awesome

Yah! thats what I'm talking about, more than one rear wheel hub combo for all our ebike needs!

Rick