2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

I don't mean lateral forces,I mean the slowdown of the inside wheel.
The motor gives full torque when pulling up, and you take a tight corner, it will almost stop the inside wheel, putting enormous pressure on the gears as the motor keeps pulling.
It is like pulling the brake when accelerating, without brake switches.
 
knutselmaaster said:
I don't mean lateral forces,I mean the slowdown of the inside wheel.
The motor gives full torque when pulling up, and you take a tight corner, it will almost stop the inside wheel, putting enormous pressure on the gears as the motor keeps pulling.
It is like pulling the brake when accelerating, without brake switches.

Gotcha, illustrated by the need for differentials on cars/truck.
 
I'm the least "extreme" ride I know. Trike, 15mph tops, smooth riding trail for 20 miles and one 4% long hill. This is the second time gear failure the same way. Me and the trike are about 140 kilos. All 36 volt rides.
otherDoc
 
knutselmaaster said:
I don't mean lateral forces,I mean the slowdown of the inside wheel.
The motor gives full torque when pulling up, and you take a tight corner, it will almost stop the inside wheel, putting enormous pressure on the gears as the motor keeps pulling.
It is like pulling the brake when accelerating, without brake switches.
All my wheels are independent suspension. The fronts are free to rotate and the only power is applied to the rear. It may scrub a bit in turns, but there is lateral force on the axle. The suspension does allow a bit of tilt to the wheels.
otherDoc
 
silviasol said:
I have seen this thread updated but haven't read thru it all. I see some pictures of broken gears. Has this happened to just extreme riders or almost everyone. Are they still available?
2 motor failures total from the thread, I am not so extreme either, just commuting on good smooth paths, light weight setup + rider, maybe pushing the specs of the intended use out a bit - 44v @ 36kmh on flat, originally specced as a smaller wheeled 36v, but I don't think the gears change in the 48v motor, so I'd only be straining the coils if anything...

I think the gear change timings could be a big factor as when I replaced them there really is a fair bit of play in the gears when switching direction (and the key didn't eliminate movement in the gear plate), the way the roller clutch engages should cushion that, but maybe sometimes there is a 'perfect storm' scenario, where it grabs too fast too early and finds the weak tooth on that cog which had a small defect...

The physics of the trike could produce a large force as knutselmaaster suggested, as soon as you turn a corner, the axle would try to twist itself to cope with the different forces as one side tries to accelerate as the other decelerates effectively creating a braking force on one side.
I wonder if the axle twisting might be more of a factor than the spike in motor load, as I wouldn't image that the motor would load any more than what happens when you hit a big hill, really...
trying to think... if it twists the Key could twist the gear plate and move it out of synch a bit, but hard to imagine it'd be enough to make a difference
hmmm, maybe there is enough warping in the axle to seize the Sun gear, and Bafang wouldn't have the extra sun gear?, but again seizing a bearing from axle warp isn't easy to do
 
Thanks Menvert for that possibility. It looks the same as the first time where there are only chunks of the nylon Sun gear. I would think if this was happening on a regular basis then a composite gear would make some sense. I really don't know if the gears are composite, but they look like solid nylon. The Bafang has steel sun and ring gear teeth, with nylon planet gears. I can't believe that a slow trike could cause these problems.
otherDoc
 
I am curious Doc... how do you actually get the motor onto the longer trike axle? I'd have assumed you can't get an XD that spans from one wheel to the other... is there much flex?

I wonder if it the XD would work better if all the Planetary gears were all plastic, and then all sun and rings could be metal (and still be quiet), I assume smaller cogs in plastic don't work well though
 
The rear fork is the standard 135 mm and the motor is the non-disc brake one. It fits fine with a 7 gear freewheel. I only use 2 front discs and no brakes on the rear. I did increase the diameter of the discs to 185 mm. The trike is the standard Steintrikes Mad Max full suspension tadpole.

Good news!
I did hear from Bonnie and she asked me to check the motor carefully before she sends parts. Still seems like good service to me. I am not sure about the XiongDa but my older Bafang used to shred planet nylon gears on a regular basis until they developed a better formula. "Peanut butter" was the term we used back about 7 years ago.
otherDoc
 
Oh Doc, forget most of what i said regarding flex. somehow I thought you had 2 wheels on the back where the motor is. I see no reason that your setup is any different to a conventional rear bike then, I would have to guess that most likely something must be digging into the gear for it to shatter so quickly...
 
menvert said:
Oh Doc, forget most of what i said regarding flex. somehow I thought you had 2 wheels on the back where the motor is. I see no reason that your setup is any different to a conventional rear bike then, I would have to guess that most likely something must be digging into the gear for it to shatter so quickly...

Ah lol , same here.
I was convinced that it was one front wheel and two on the back, with the motor in one of the back wheels ..
Sorry, the speed up/slow down brainwave was irrelevant then.
 
knutselmaaster said:
menvert said:
Oh Doc, forget most of what i said regarding flex. somehow I thought you had 2 wheels on the back where the motor is. I see no reason that your setup is any different to a conventional rear bike then, I would have to guess that most likely something must be digging into the gear for it to shatter so quickly...

Ah lol , same here.
I was convinced that it was one front wheel and two on the back, with the motor in one of the back wheels ..
Sorry, the speed up/slow down brainwave was irrelevant then.
Oh your brain is working fine K. Tadpoles even with a suspension don't corner like 2 wheelers unless they are tilting trikes. Mine has 4" of suspension travel but even that much puts lateral forces on the wheels much higher than a 2 wheeler or a tilter.

That being said, I have had a number of geared motors that had no problems for thousands of kilometers. I still think there is a problem with the nylon sun gear material, and Bonnie suggested as much also. Hopefully when I get the new gears they will be much stronger.
otherDoc
 
Another + for Bonnie and XiongDa. She suggested I also check the large slow speed gears and sure inough there was a chipped tooth on 2 of them. Probably some debris from the busted Sun gear got in there. These folks seem to really care about their customers. Now if they could only make the motor bulletproof...................
otherDoc
 
New gearset arrived today, about a week after they were sent UPS. So customer service is still great. The gears look the same as the ones that failed (when new :) :) ) but maybe this time will be better. I am going to reassemble the motor with some synthetic wheelbearing grease and see if that helps.
otherDoc
 
Good point, KM. I went over everything with a brush to get small particles out but there really weren't many. That amide gear composite breaks into big chunks. The new gear looks a bit darker but it could be my imagination. Motor now closed up (this time with anti-seize on the threads) and will mount and test tomorrow. It has been raining here for about a week, so no riding weather with "frog stranglers" around. Probably Wednesday test on the road.
otherDoc
 
IMG_1332.JPGIMG_1331.JPGWell when I get luck lately it is usually bad. Controller is fried on my 2 speed. It must have happened when I tried to power it up after the gears failed. Anyone got one in the States I can buy? Of course I just finished rebuilding the motor when I found this out.
otherDoc

A little good news as I tried one of the sensorless controllers and it worked fine. Unfortunately it can't be shifted, and it is stuck in high gear (the one just repaired). I am afraid to take the trike out to a steep hill, which is part of our regular ride, lest I destroy the new high gear. Woe is me! :(
 
Mabey the fried controller is a clue to your gear problems. Battery, cables, connectors...
 
nw01 said:
Mabey the fried controller is a clue to your gear problems. Battery, cables, connectors...
I'm pretty sure it happened the other way around. Gear failed and blocked motor rotation, I was on the power and did not shift down to low. Those controllers are usually pretty reliable. The gears, for me, not so much.
otherDoc
 
Just got a UPS tracking number from Bonnie for the new controller and it should arrive this Monday. Yippie. The rebuilt motor works (tested with a sensorless controller that also seems to work) so I should be in business with the shifting back on. I also ordered a Cute100H so that I have a backup for my Cute100 that I am lacing into a wheel. Nothing like backing up the back up but anything is better than walking for exercise. Yuk!
otherDoc
Xiongda Customer Service is really great. If this old 2 speed holds up for a while I think I will order a backup for it. I really like the 2 speed a lot but it needs to be reliable.
 
knutselmaaster said:
My first 3 two speed motors have arrived in France today.
So I should receive them Monday also.
I can't wait to play around with these babies!

Hopefully your motors will last and the gears will not crunch. What are you putting them into?
otherDoc
 
Not destructive testing, I hope? :evil:
otherDoc
 
No, that certainly won't be the case, with European law (max 250w nominal, max 25km/h) that shouldn't even be possible :p
I'm investing my savings in the hope to create a business, and there certainly isn't enough to spoil around.
 
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