2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

[menvert]

my concern then would be mounting this thing....experienced people on this forum or another forum told me to use disc brakes but what is the size of this disc brake motor.and cogs and I heard it is rather fat bigger than most....the add below from them says it is 132 mm...what does this mean? also on ebike.com I believe they said you need to use the vbrake mount on this bike because the width was too large....any info on this?

Well, basically most bikes will be 135mm rear dropout 100mm front. If you go the disc version you'll generally need an extra 10mm
however it does depend on how many gears you want, if you go 5 speed you can leave out one of the bolts and come in at 5mm less... Check the first page from this thread for the schematic. There is also an alternate model you can get that is 137mm? I think and supports a disc, but the shaft is longer, and again needs low gear count.

For my disc 7 speed I just stretch out the rear drop outs, in fact I needed a 2mm washer to widen it to support 7 speed (awkward and really annoying when you need to change a flat) but worked on my old alloy bike for 5 years with no damage. Discs are really forgiving if you lace your own wheel and don't have patience to get them trued 100%
Also If you have front suspension even the 100mm hub can be a bit too wide and prevent shockies from working, do not consider fitting 110mm motor on 100mm forks with shockies...

b.big torque,and climbing ability;

c.high effeciency(Big torque, low current );

Yep basically it's a normal 250w motor, but with an additional lower gear, efficiency is because you can still climb at very low speed and stator? is still spinning fast and thus efficient (ie: not producing loads of heat as it strains and stalls)
It really depends what sort of ride you want it for... my friends 250w setup generally outdoes my XD, in the light commuter category 32kpm max, but still climbs and accelerates very fast... in retrospect that would have been a better suit for my category of riding, but hey, I love cutting edge tech

 

[menvert]

I found a detailed KT-LCD3 manual explaining all the Extra programming codes (P1-P5 & C1-C12)
http://www.szktdz.com/upload/file/20140913/20140913155038_92748.pdf

For reference defaults on my 36v KT controller I received last week;
P1=87
P2=1
P3=1
P4=0
P5=15
C1=2
C2=0
C3=8
C4=0
C5=10
C6=3
C7=0
C8=0
C9=0
C10=N (This is the factory reset code)
C11=0
C12=4

 

[mountain biker]

so just started investigating the whole e bike things...so these double speed motors are wider than most....and I saw the pic with the shock on one looking at it . the shock wouldn't allow the double speed to fit....so then what mass produced bike that is cheap could these things fit on as standard size? dolomite mongoose with their fat tires? who mass produces fat bikes or would or would you look for larger width tires...like the 2.75 size tires or 2.5 size tires on width? and where do you find those kind of bikes? surely there is a cheap bike that could fit the rear and front one on this.

 

[mountain biker]

are the 29 inch bikes wider forks in general?

 

[menvert]

so just started investigating the whole e bike things...so these double speed motors are wider than most....and I saw the pic with the shock on one looking at it . the shock wouldn't allow the double speed to fit....so then what mass produced bike that is cheap could these things fit on as standard size? dolomite mongoose with their fat tires? who mass produces fat bikes or would or would you look for larger width tires...like the 2.75 size tires or 2.5 size tires on width? and where do you find those kind of bikes? surely there is a cheap bike that could fit the rear and front one on this.

Regarding shockie front forks disc compatible ones will generally allow space for the motor as they have a cutout section, but you'll only fit the rim version motor in 100mm
Best bet would be to ask or measure bikes at a bike shop I reckon... when I looked not too many online specs seem to detail the dropouts... I had a look at my workplace's bike parking (40+ bikes mostly commuters) and measured a bunch, even the rather fat tyre 29ers (29ers are generally same rim as 700c but fatter tyres) looked to be a common 135 dropout.
http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html according to Sheldon, only Tandems come as a natural 145mm
again, you haven't said how you want to use your bike, but options are go with a 135 frame 145 motor like I did, and make it fit, or use a thinner freewheel (5-6 speed) and leave out the extra 5mm spacer or go with the 137 'shortened disc version' which panurge had, and also go 5-6 speed (I needed an 11t as my spreferred cadence is low, so 6sp was not suitable for me)
I considered hacking my freewheel, so it's 5 speed, by losing the useless low range cogs, but it's not easy...

 

[eMax]

I found a detailed KT-LCD3 manual explaining all the Extra programming codes (P1-P5 & C1-C12)
http://www.szktdz.com/upload/file/20140913/20140913155038_92748.pdf

For reference defaults on my 36v KT controller I received last week;
P1=87
P2=1
P3=1
P4=0
P5=15
C1=2
C2=0
C3=8
C4=0
C5=10
C6=3
C7=0
C8=0
C9=0
C10=N (This is the factory reset code)
C11=0
C12=4

Thanks for posting this, great info! How did you go with your install was the width OK in the end?

 

[menvert]

Thanks for posting this, great info! How did you go with your install was the width OK in the end?

No worries,
The build went well all things considered - I finally added a post as you asked The dropout is stretched out as I wouldn't deal without an 7sp for the 11t freewheel, but less stretched than my last build so hopefully it'll stay nice and strong. new bike is great very smoothe and confortable and now I am used to the XD I am loving it, overall happy, but wish the auto and the speed of gear switch was much better, as it is I rarely use Low gear and never use auto. It's a touch slower than I thought it'd be, so when I replace battery I'll consider upping volts a bit or getting a 48v controller and battery. going to see what my range is today if I get a chance too, I will attache a Lyen cruise module soon too, hopefully this will mean so I can cruise and use PAS

 

[menvert]

So now I come to battery upgrade as the next agenda... planning a lighter Li-NiCoMn about 15Ah to be lighter ...

Has anyone here run the XD with KT 36v controller on 12s lipo for hundreds of miles yet?

Opinions on whether I go 11 or 12s lipo with existing 36v KT or go with 48v battery and get a 48v controller?
Or even a Bottle pack Lion?

 

[eMax]

So now I come to battery upgrade as the next agenda... planning a lighter Li-NiCoMn about 15Ah to be lighter ...

Has anyone here run the XD with KT 36v controller on 12s lipo for hundreds of miles yet?

Opinions on whether I go 11 or 12s lipo with existing 36v KT or go with 48v battery and get a 48v controller?
Or even a Bottle pack Lion?

The build looks good. I've been wondering about the quality of those Hasa bikes is it any good? They are definitely good value.
Looking at your bike i would go a frame mount battery for the downtube. Get that weight away from the rear wheel! Stick with Li-Ion.

Sen't you a PM.

 

[menvert]

So now I come to battery upgrade as the next agenda... planning a lighter Li-NiCoMn about 15Ah to be lighter ...

Has anyone here run the XD with KT 36v controller on 12s lipo for hundreds of miles yet?

Opinions on whether I go 11 or 12s lipo with existing 36v KT or go with 48v battery and get a 48v controller?
Or even a Bottle pack Lion?

The build looks good. I've been wondering about the quality of those Hasa bikes is it any good? They are definitely good value.
Looking at your bike i would go a frame mount battery for the downtube. Get that weight away from the rear wheel! Stick with Li-Ion.

Sen't you a PM.

Yep I am very happy with the Hasa, everything is greased up well and rides really nice, they responded to my after sales email quickly too. The only issue I had is the top rear rack-to-frame bolts were too short and 1 fell out during transit, which stripped the frame thread, which I don't think is intended to be load bearing, but the internal lug was fine so a longer bolt fixed it no worries.
The bottle packs are very tidy which I like, I thought Lion has more sag than lipo though?

 

[mountain biker]

does the motor come in 24 volt config and 48 config also?

if stock wattage is 350 for this thing does this mean.

24 volt 15 amp

36 volt 15 amp
48 volt 15 amp

how does this effect the speed and torque?

the reason I ask I am working on powering this system with a solar type charging system and a lot of my options are 24 or 48 and practically almost none when it comes to 36 volt....

so anyone got a 24 volt model of this thing? or a 48 ? from the factory?

 

[d8veh]

They sell it in 48v version. 350W doesn't mean anything other than you can run the motor at 350w all day and it won't overheat.

 

[menvert]

Yep agreed, just go 48v, 24v will be really slow and underpowered.
I think they are all 15A max (unmodified)
'stock wattage' is very subjective, purchase page says 24V,36V,48V 180-350W I assumed that's 180 for 24v, about 250 for 36 & 350 for 48 in terms of 'rated watts'
My 36v controller's display peaks at 500w draw (which in the table at bottom of XD page is about 350w motor power)

 

[cjh]

I am interested in running this motor. I have a cheap steel MTB on 26's that I can throw it on the rear of in the short term as I am looking at getting a fat bike soon. I figure it can go from the rear of the MTB to the front of the fattie as it looks like they both are 135mm dropouts. The thing I am wondering about is getting it in a 200W version as the rules where I am allow no speed limit for this size and I can use a throttle but 250W is capped at 25kph/15mph and throttle is only available for use up to 6kph. Even if it does no more than 25kph, at least I can legally use it throttle only up to that speed. Of course, if it can get to 30kph it would be great. What would be the best battery/controller combination to get the most out of it performance wise? What sort of performance should I expect? The terrain is fairly flat with some small hills, mainly bike paths and beach with some road usage and I am about 90kg. Range isn't so critical as I don't do big rides much anymore due to my stuffed knee so probably just a bottle battery. Ideally I would really like the stealthy look of putting the battery in a real bottle like this one and the motor controller in a small bag. I have seen some 1l bottles that seem big enough.

 

[cjh]

Also, what motor wind/rpm should I be looking at?

 

[menvert]

I am interested in running this motor. I have a cheap steel MTB on 26's that I can throw it on the rear of in the short term as I am looking at getting a fat bike soon. I figure it can go from the rear of the MTB to the front of the fattie as it looks like they both are 135mm dropouts. The thing I am wondering about is getting it in a 200W version as the rules where I am allow no speed limit for this size and I can use a throttle but 250W is capped at 25kph/15mph and throttle is only available for use up to 6kph. Even if it does no more than 25kph, at least I can legally use it throttle only up to that speed. Of course, if it can get to 30kph it would be great. What would be the best battery/controller combination to get the most out of it performance wise? What sort of performance should I expect? The terrain is fairly flat with some small hills, mainly bike paths and beach with some road usage and I am about 90kg. Range isn't so critical as I don't do big rides much anymore due to my stuffed knee so probably just a bottle battery. Ideally I would really like the stealthy look of putting the battery in a real bottle like this one and the motor controller in a small bag. I have seen some 1l bottles that seem big enough.

Morning,
Yeah the law as I understand is 200w MAX or 250w 'rated'/nominal PAS only. This motor from factory is only intended for 25kph max speed, however with windings for smaller wheels it's possible to get 30kph+
I ran some tests this morning on my alloy commuter setup (total weight 24kg + 60kg) - the motor is 280RPM 36v(I think that's roughly 20" winding on my 700c wheel) where I usually get ~ 30kph on flat and 15kph on steep hills in low gear.

I set the amps via the KT controller to 50% which equals MAX draw from battery of 250w @80% motor efficiency you could say is 200w MAX.
On very flat I could get 29/30kph, but just a slight incline and it quickly drops to about 24kph, on my steep hill it drops to 9kph in low. It's pretty clear the motor is not designed for such a low max watts, It was majorly underpowered and my knee was not happy about it at all, so I'll stick with running it at full amps. I am considering, though modifying my left shifter to be the accelerator so it is a fully stealth accelerator, and I never use the shifter anyway. I am lucky in Brisbane to have dedicated bike-ways practically whole way to my work.

I did ask them to print 200w on motor but that seemed to have been missed (I did change my order 1/2 way) , another post on here said they were able to get the factory to laser 250w in the motor, they'd do 200w I am sure if you pushed it. But because of my weak knee also I need more power and accelerator.
I think the laws are crazy at 25kmh I have 60% of the non-assisted riders overtake me, with regular 40kph riders passing...

 

[cjh]

Thanks for the feedback. I have been riding a few off-the-shelf hub motored ebikes at local ebike stockists and they all top out around 25kph but with a bit of pedalling will sit on 30kph. Some seem to be using throttles illegally or offering them as an aftermarket option. My preference is to see what I can get out of a 'legal' setup which is why I am considering the 200W option. As I understand it, the power ratings mentioned in the Law here are continuous ratings, not maximum ratings so I won't be limiting that. I am trying to see what is the best configuration to get the most out of it I can legally given the low continuous power limits imposed. Seems like 48V LiPo could be the way to go but this is completely new to me so any education and input is valued.

 

[menvert]

Thanks for the feedback. I have been riding a few off-the-shelf hub motored ebikes at local ebike stockists and they all top out around 25kph but with a bit of pedalling will sit on 30kph. Some seem to be using throttles illegally or offering them as an aftermarket option. My preference is to see what I can get out of a 'legal' setup which is why I am considering the 200W option. As I understand it, the power ratings mentioned in the Law here are continuous ratings, not maximum ratings so I won't be limiting that. I am trying to see what is the best configuration to get the most out of it I can legally given the low continuous power limits imposed. Seems like 48V LiPo could be the way to go but this is completely new to me so any education and input is valued.

Well in QLD it's clear 'the electric motor must not be capable of generating more than 200 watts of power' but the 250w is the European standard which instead says can have a motor of 250W of continuous rated power, which is a reasonably ambiguous rating, which as far as I can tell is more like the manufacturers rating of 'at this load over an extended period of time it will not overheat and die' , yet can still peak higher. So the 250w PAS version of the law can be much more than and extra 25% as it might peak to 500w (up hills) like this motor does...

I guess you could attach a 48v battery and 48v controller to a motor rated at 24v 200w max (as it sounds like motors deal okay with more voltage at the same amps) but in reality it'd become closer to a 400w motor because of double volts

I am pretty sure you will find that all the off-the-shelf ones will be 250w rated but peak higher (same as this one @ 36v), which are meant to not have accelerator or only accelerate to 6kph and cut power at 25kph, but they sell to 'off-road' customers too so option to remove speed limit are there... Also no one really makes 200w motors, there is no market...

 

[cjh]

Thanks, just did some more digging and it seems that it is a 200W max rating like you say so it seems that I will just go with a 250W continuous. What setup will maximise the performance? We won't even talk about my thoughts of running 2 motors in the future :wink:

 

[menvert]

Thanks, just did some more digging and it seems that it is a 200W max rating like you say so it seems that I will just go with a 250W continuous. What setup will maximise the performance? We won't even talk about my thoughts of running 2 motors in the future :wink:

Hehe, I am just pointing out there is a huge difference between the two laws one is really double the performace of the other...
I myself don't technically comply with either because I run this motor with an accelerator and cruise control (with PAS enabled still), because like you my knee is pretty dodgy and I can't pedal fast or for my whole 18k commute... upgrading to a light bike with high gearing and the 2 speed motor has been a huge improvement for my knee... next plan is to integrate accelerator into shifter and I am working on a 'turbo' mode that'll add 1 or 2 cells to my battery (on demand by a switch) for extra max speed when I am on the long straight bike paths... that'll also give me an idea of my next battery plan of either 12s lipo or proper 48v pack

Hehe I have considered 2 motors, one low gearing one high, but the XD fixes that want , well, if you go for a higher RPM model.

If I reordered the motor I'd probably go 48v setup for the top speed advantage, but if you want the smaller bottle battery, maybe 36 would work better for you depending on the range you want, I think either a BBS01 mid-drive or this XD motor would suit as the low range gear really is great, especially for a setup that's not light like mine, feel free to PM if you want any more details

 

[cjh]

I had considered a BBS01 mid-drive but as I want to move to a fat bike soon, the BB width is an issue. I am thinking that if I was to go for 2WD I could focus a bit more on higher motor rpm for the roughly 29" OD tyres as the benefits of two motors along with the low gear ratio of the XD motor should more than deal with any torque/climbing needs. Keeping it looking fairly normal is less likely to gain unwanted attention hence my thoughts on the drink bottle style battery but it may prove unreasonable. I could always have a spare battery in my backpack if I knew I was going to do longer rides.

 

[d8veh]

I had considered a BBS01 mid-drive but as I want to move to a fat bike soon, the BB width is an issue. I am thinking that if I was to go for 2WD I could focus a bit more on higher motor rpm for the roughly 29" OD tyres as the benefits of two motors along with the low gear ratio of the XD motor should more than deal with any torque/climbing needs. Keeping it looking fairly normal is less likely to gain unwanted attention hence my thoughts on the drink bottle style battery but it may prove unreasonable. I could always have a spare battery in my backpack if I knew I was going to do longer rides.

The Xiongda motors have very high torque when you run them at 36v 20A or 48v. There's no point in using them for 2WD, which I can imagine would be quite unpleasant to ride. If you want 2WD, use normal geared motors. I recommend that you get one first, try it out, and then see if you think you need 2WD.

 

[Alan B]

2wd on a fat tire bike would be a really a fun setup for sand and dirt. Should climb quite well. With such large tires if you operate at very low speed the extra gearing could be very important to keep motor heating down.

Fat tires really eat the power, a small battery won't get far at all.

 

[ktmede]

Hi, I am new to the forum, but have been reading it for quite a few weeks now in the search for a conversion kit to add to my hybrid/commuter.
When I became aware of this 2 speed motor I thought I found motor that fits my needs (assist up to 35 km/h mainly on flats with some steep hills);
On the flats I usually go about 25 km/h without any motor, but the hill slows me down to about 10 km/h. I still want to keep pedaling myself, but with a little less effort on the hill and hope to go about 10 km/h faster on the flat.
So I am in the process of ordering a 48V 300W 270RPM version for a 700c front wheel (I want to keep my 9 speeds in the back).
Now to my questions:
1. Do you think that is the correct motor for my requirements, or is this completely off?
2. Should I ask to get a different RPM version? I heard they offer also 280
3. What battery to do suggest? I was looking at this one:
http://www.victpower.cn/product/200..._48v_12_ah_lithium_ion_pack_with_5v_port.html
Thanks
Ed

 

[menvert]

Hi, I am new to the forum, but have been reading it for quite a few weeks now in the search for a conversion kit to add to my hybrid/commuter.
When I became aware of this 2 speed motor I thought I found motor that fits my needs (assist up to 35 km/h mainly on flats with some steep hills);
On the flats I usually go about 25 km/h without any motor, but the hill slows me down to about 10 km/h. I still want to keep pedaling myself, but with a little less effort on the hill and hope to go about 10 km/h faster on the flat.
So I am in the process of ordering a 48V 300W 270RPM version for a 700c front wheel (I want to keep my 9 speeds in the back).
Now to my questions:
1. Do you think that is the correct motor for my requirements, or is this completely off?
2. Should I ask to get a different RPM version? I heard they offer also 280
3. What battery to do suggest? I was looking at this one:
http://www.victpower.cn/product/200..._48v_12_ah_lithium_ion_pack_with_5v_port.html
Thanks
Ed

Hmm, well my 80ish KG (bike and me) 36v @ 280 rpm 700c with FOT on flat will do about 30kmh, down hill it still assists up to about 35, so I think you'd want at least 280 but maybe 290-300 RPM, given your 48v it can probably handle even higher rpm no worries, so long as you and the bike are light. On flat I can maintain about 30 unassisted once my motor gets me there, but with my knee how it is I can't really push hard enough to see if 35 assisted is realistic, but I'd say a fitter person can keep it at 35 okay. Though I am not so sure if assist level 5 can reach this same max output as throttle?

So it depends on your weight and steepnes of hills... I can pull 15kmh up hill in low gear full throttle on my biggest hill (steep enough that only the super fit carbon riders can keep up with me), barely pedalling.

That battery pack looks good enough, I am not so familiar with the different Lion cells, might be worth researching the cell type on these forums to see if the draw rate is suitable, otherwise the voltage sag might be quite a bit, my motor pulls 500w no worries going up hills, so yours might be pulling 750