DahonElectric
100 W
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2008
- Messages
- 149
leamcorp said:
Heh, how is the Wilderness Energy motor holding out for you? Is it reliable in wet weather with the whole setup and do you have a brush or brushless type?
Thanks!
2008 E-zips at walmart...
- Thread starter jrav
- Start date
Heh, how is the Wilderness Energy motor holding out for you? Is it reliable in wet weather with the whole setup and do you have a brush or brushless type?
Thanks!
Zoot Katz
100 kW
It's funny how we have to retrain drivers every spring. It's like they forgot all about bicycles over winter.DahonElectric said:
The last bus strike lasted the whole summer. I'd never seen more bicycles on the streets and in dumpsters.
There were scads of brand new *mart brand BSO being ridden (poorly) and locked (even more poorly) everywhere.
What was more disturbing to me was the number of bicycles dragged out of basements and sheds and deposited in the trash. It's like those bikes sat ~15 years since the previous bus strike. Their owners may have taken them from storage and to the bike shop in hopes of riding them. Once they faced the reality of labour and parts costs they went down to the nearest *mart for a spanking new BSO.
I salvaged at least five bikes just in my neighbourhood. Parts scrounged from other junkers had them running safely with no expense to me. It was fun to fix them up, ride them to a bus stop in the wee hours of the morning and just leave them there. They were always gone by noon.
My concern is that underpowered, overweight, cheaply made ebikes will disappoint and discourage people trying to change their lifestyle.
That was the point of my rant.
DahonElectric said:
I don't really like the system much. I like to pedal and I typically ride 100+ miles per week on my road bike. I got the ebike to add more miles by commuting, but Wilderness hub is like mild brake system. It rolls okay, but I could feel it slowing down a lot. Off the ground, I can't even turn it more than 1 turn. So even though I like its silent operation - I'm calling, Next!
I dont' know if its brush or brushless - It was missing some important parts when I got the system. I got it working by scavenging my parts bin ... It looks like brushed (I ordered brushless) based on the controller, but can't tell for sure since there's no label on anything (and I'm not removing the cover). I think I'll try EVtech system next.
Rassy
1 MW
leamcorp wrote:
Anyway, the brushed hubs are not reverseable and need to be installed with the wires on the right side of the bike. When the wheel is turned backwards, it will turn hard and when turned forwards will spin quite easily (when hooked up to the controller, but with the throttle off). Pick up your bike so the tire is off the ground, with the controller and battery all hooked up, and see if it spins easily by hand in one direction and not the other. The easy direction is the way it should turn if installed correctly.
Sounds like you may not have received what you ordered. If all that goes to the wheel is two "large" wires, you do have a brushed hub motor. The brushless motors have three large wires and most have 4 or 5 small wires if there are hall sensors in the motor.
Anyway, the brushed hubs are not reverseable and need to be installed with the wires on the right side of the bike. When the wheel is turned backwards, it will turn hard and when turned forwards will spin quite easily (when hooked up to the controller, but with the throttle off). Pick up your bike so the tire is off the ground, with the controller and battery all hooked up, and see if it spins easily by hand in one direction and not the other. The easy direction is the way it should turn if installed correctly.
dogman dan
1 PW
That could be the problem, but wouldn't the bike roll backwards if the wheel is backwards, unless the motor wiring is also backwards? My We brushed motors have a lot of cogging force, enough to not want to peadle it anywhere with the power off. I believe some, if not all geared hubmotors have a freewheel inside, or chaindrive also avoids this cogging resistance. I just got a big ping battery and forgot about running power off. I did put a big front crank on though, so I can still get a workout at 25-29 mph. One of my hubs has the wires right, and one left, so who knows what comes out of the factory.
Rassy
1 MW
dogman wrote:
Yes it would, but with the problems mentioned by leamcorp nothing would suprise me. He thought he was getting a brushless motor, but now isn't sure, and the brushless motors from WE have the wires on the left side of the hub. There is a big difference in the cogging effect rolling the wheel forward versus backward. I pedal my bikes a lot without using any throttle and don't notice much drag.
Rassy said:
This is why I'm more confused and can't tell what it is...
The Power cable has 3 wire. However, from their own manual, it should have a hall effect, but it doesn't. Also from the picture, It looks like their brushed motor controller. But again, the power cable is on the right side. In their 4 page installation manual - they added a sliver of paper saying that now power cable should be on right side for brushless (it was stapled on). The regular text on the manual says left. But it also says motor wire should be on right for Brush version as well. Yikes!
I cycled as a child, but just recently got back into cycling. I'm now 38.
And did I...commuting to work now, 13 miles each way.
I've been itching to get into these wal-mart discussions, since I've been reading them for a few weeks now.
So I registered...and here goes. Well, the problem here, in my opinion, is that you have a certain amount of high end cyclists for whom apparantly money is no object. They see a low end bike at wal-mart, say the 24" roadmaster fury, for $47, and they'll say, well you know, thats the price you will pay for the first tune up at your LBS, and you'll have to have one after 1 month.
OR some such similar argument.
No...you won't. A bike is simply not a car. You don't need a 'licensed mechanic' to work on one, the rider works on it. The rider can replace any part and fully tune the entire bike himself or herself. Do they? No, quite a bit of laziness going on, but thats the point. They buy a $50 bike, knowing they will have it to ride aroudn the cul-de-sac in front of their house for a couple weekends, then go onto something else. Why waste money on that.
Now, to the subject of the ezip. It's a little bit different because a commuting bike, is going to be ridden regularly and you'll run into issues.
I bought a bike I needed, that has mounts for pontoons so it can float across the water....so I bought this specialized bike, it wasn't inexpensive, it cost $500, but it was, like that low end mt. fury, an absolutely cheap bike...
the brakes didn't work, the shifter didn't work, the derailler didn't work, the pedals and seat both broke.
There is absolutely a low end type of bike that will not make a daily commute. I cannot comment on the EZip.
The elite cyclists claim the LBS cannot work on wal-mart bikes because of their own distaste for wal-mart bikes. In truth, its because at the very low end, there isn't much to do to fix them. Don't go looking for the b-tension adjustment on your derailler, because those low end bikes don't have such an adjustment, its fixed...and if its out of alignment, it just will stay that way, or you can try bending the hanger, I suppose.
OK, my point is rambling...but basically I can tell you that there is a low end, quality parts....and just too low end.
I fixed every last problem my bike had...using team forte, shimano tourney, and bell parts. Linear pull brakes, $12. Shimano derailler, $9. etc.
The difference in quality is astounding! Low end parts are great, you just cannot delve all the way down into the generic, 'Xundah' and non-names....thats where it goes too far. I would buy a $200 wal-mart schwin with shimano parts any day...its quality bike and you can adjust it yourself. I would not buy the $50 roadmaster.
And did I...commuting to work now, 13 miles each way.
I've been itching to get into these wal-mart discussions, since I've been reading them for a few weeks now.
So I registered...and here goes. Well, the problem here, in my opinion, is that you have a certain amount of high end cyclists for whom apparantly money is no object. They see a low end bike at wal-mart, say the 24" roadmaster fury, for $47, and they'll say, well you know, thats the price you will pay for the first tune up at your LBS, and you'll have to have one after 1 month.
OR some such similar argument.
No...you won't. A bike is simply not a car. You don't need a 'licensed mechanic' to work on one, the rider works on it. The rider can replace any part and fully tune the entire bike himself or herself. Do they? No, quite a bit of laziness going on, but thats the point. They buy a $50 bike, knowing they will have it to ride aroudn the cul-de-sac in front of their house for a couple weekends, then go onto something else. Why waste money on that.
Now, to the subject of the ezip. It's a little bit different because a commuting bike, is going to be ridden regularly and you'll run into issues.
I bought a bike I needed, that has mounts for pontoons so it can float across the water....so I bought this specialized bike, it wasn't inexpensive, it cost $500, but it was, like that low end mt. fury, an absolutely cheap bike...
the brakes didn't work, the shifter didn't work, the derailler didn't work, the pedals and seat both broke.
There is absolutely a low end type of bike that will not make a daily commute. I cannot comment on the EZip.
The elite cyclists claim the LBS cannot work on wal-mart bikes because of their own distaste for wal-mart bikes. In truth, its because at the very low end, there isn't much to do to fix them. Don't go looking for the b-tension adjustment on your derailler, because those low end bikes don't have such an adjustment, its fixed...and if its out of alignment, it just will stay that way, or you can try bending the hanger, I suppose.
OK, my point is rambling...but basically I can tell you that there is a low end, quality parts....and just too low end.
I fixed every last problem my bike had...using team forte, shimano tourney, and bell parts. Linear pull brakes, $12. Shimano derailler, $9. etc.
The difference in quality is astounding! Low end parts are great, you just cannot delve all the way down into the generic, 'Xundah' and non-names....thats where it goes too far. I would buy a $200 wal-mart schwin with shimano parts any day...its quality bike and you can adjust it yourself. I would not buy the $50 roadmaster.
well my post was rambling, so...thats what you get for holding it in for a few weeks. Just wanted to say, my pontoon bike, I also added a WE hub motor to the front, and I use a 24v controller and 12ah batteries.
It cannot make the 13 mile commute. The pontoons are heavy, the bike is heavy, and frankly the cyclist is heavy.
I pedal assist the entire way, but it runs out of energy about 10 miles out....and of course, you cannot completely drain the battery or you will damage it. So I'm probably going to add a switch and a second battery bank.
My pontoon bike includes a river crossing...that is entirely human powered, and takes 30 minutes. I'm getting one heck of a massive workout going to work and back...even with the power assist.
I'm running into the classic conundrum, if its too difficult, I'll just take the car instead. It has to be do-able. Thats why electric bikes are good. They aren't cheating someone out of a workout, they are enabling someone to step out of their car.
I considered the ezip too, but....I picked the bike that could cross the river because, it keeps me on greenways all the way to work. If I simply had to use city streets, I'd find it too dangerous, from my home there are some really bad 2 lane roads with no shoulders, for miles, with heavy high speed traffic.
But there is another option too, which is to take the bus through the dangerous parts, all the buses have bike carriers...and then just bike like the last 2 miles or something. That would be ok, except the bus expense...
It cannot make the 13 mile commute. The pontoons are heavy, the bike is heavy, and frankly the cyclist is heavy.
I pedal assist the entire way, but it runs out of energy about 10 miles out....and of course, you cannot completely drain the battery or you will damage it. So I'm probably going to add a switch and a second battery bank.
My pontoon bike includes a river crossing...that is entirely human powered, and takes 30 minutes. I'm getting one heck of a massive workout going to work and back...even with the power assist.
I'm running into the classic conundrum, if its too difficult, I'll just take the car instead. It has to be do-able. Thats why electric bikes are good. They aren't cheating someone out of a workout, they are enabling someone to step out of their car.
I considered the ezip too, but....I picked the bike that could cross the river because, it keeps me on greenways all the way to work. If I simply had to use city streets, I'd find it too dangerous, from my home there are some really bad 2 lane roads with no shoulders, for miles, with heavy high speed traffic.
But there is another option too, which is to take the bus through the dangerous parts, all the buses have bike carriers...and then just bike like the last 2 miles or something. That would be ok, except the bus expense...
Zoot Katz
100 kW
rdupuy said:
You'll be lucky to even get one that's been assembled properly. Many of them leave the store unsafe to ride.
The rider riding around the cul-de-sac twice a year is exactly the target market for these bikes. Largely people who wouldn't bother to learn how to repair their own bikes instead of replace them after getting a quote from a LBS. The manufacturers know these bikes won't be ridden more than 500Km before they're abandoned or replaced. The quality level of your average *mart bike is usually adequate for that type of service.
As you well know a regular pedal powered bicycle ridden regularly will also have issues. Bicycle commuters need reliable bikes, all weather gear and contingency plans, (another bike!) if they're not to become the laughing stock of their workplace.
I think I saw your website once or there's some other whacko in Cascadia doing the same thing to avoid a 65 mile car trip.
I think that if a person is handy with tools, has a sizable parts bin and knows something about bikes that garage sales and dumpsters are the best places to get good bikes cheap. To make the price point manufactures can offer a cheap frame with name brand components or a better frame with x-brand gear. Pedals and saddles are highly personal items when it comes to bikes. People often replace them. By skimping there most brands aren't risking their name.
High end bikes don't even come with pedals in the listed weight or price.
My donor bike, for a $1600+ conversion was free, the Xtracycle attachment was a steal at $250. Assembled with new parts plus the saddle, pedals and parts from another bike, for about $500 I'd already had two years service before buying a big hub motor.
The point is, I don't have bucks to throw around so can't waste them experimenting or buying disposable. I wasn't looking for a turn-key ebike as my use will be more specialised than that required of a regular pedal powered bike. I'm not replacing a car or motorcycle, I'm augmenting my bicycle and sole form of transportation. I'm not trying to run with the big dogs on the fat of my wallet. Certainly I've not yet paid my ebike dues but the helpful geniuses here will hopefully help me keep those to a minimum.
Sorry I didn't want to include all that comments on quote ...
But its a big nothing. That cheap bike is not worth it or LBS will not service them is big phooey. Have you actually brought them in? Sometime they can't fix it because these cheap bikes uses non-standard part, but most of time, they can do something to help people. Well good one do. I don't know if you know how retail bike business is, but they make most of their money on service - so fixing a cheap bike or expensive bike don't matter as they are still getting same amount money per hour.
As for some of them not being worth it or "too cheap" - Only in America will we here something like this. Tell that to 30 - 40 foreign workers (+ 1-2 american) I see everyday (I live near farm lands - figure it out). They ride a brand call Next? or another wall/kmart special that probably didn't cost more than $50-80. You should see how far they go - year after year. I also lived in Europe and Far East ... the European (Dutch/German's anyway) have a crappy bike that they use everyday to commute. And forget about far east - some don't even look like bike - rather its a steel pipes put together onh wheels. And they haul few hundred pounds of good on these bikes.
So please, whether its Next, Ezip or Orbea Orca (or any other brand - don't want to start a religious war here) - find the one you like and stop putting down other bike because how much it cost, because like anything else, there will be someone with more expensive bike than yours. You can make any bike safe by adjusting few things - including ones with cheap brake (and trust me, people that buy these bike won't be going 25mph).
But its a big nothing. That cheap bike is not worth it or LBS will not service them is big phooey. Have you actually brought them in? Sometime they can't fix it because these cheap bikes uses non-standard part, but most of time, they can do something to help people. Well good one do. I don't know if you know how retail bike business is, but they make most of their money on service - so fixing a cheap bike or expensive bike don't matter as they are still getting same amount money per hour.
As for some of them not being worth it or "too cheap" - Only in America will we here something like this. Tell that to 30 - 40 foreign workers (+ 1-2 american) I see everyday (I live near farm lands - figure it out). They ride a brand call Next? or another wall/kmart special that probably didn't cost more than $50-80. You should see how far they go - year after year. I also lived in Europe and Far East ... the European (Dutch/German's anyway) have a crappy bike that they use everyday to commute. And forget about far east - some don't even look like bike - rather its a steel pipes put together onh wheels. And they haul few hundred pounds of good on these bikes.
So please, whether its Next, Ezip or Orbea Orca (or any other brand - don't want to start a religious war here) - find the one you like and stop putting down other bike because how much it cost, because like anything else, there will be someone with more expensive bike than yours. You can make any bike safe by adjusting few things - including ones with cheap brake (and trust me, people that buy these bike won't be going 25mph).
TylerDurden
100 GW
The last guy I saw with an Orbea was at a picnic eating hot-dogs. :lol:
Drunkskunk
100 GW
2 versions, but as far as the E part of the Ebike, they are the same. motor, battery, charger, controller, they are all the same. the diffrence is the bike frame and use.
the base bikes are both cheap departmentstore bikes, with no illusions of being great bicycles. They are fair bikes for the money. The mountian bike is a trail bike for dirt walking paths at best, and the comfort bike is more comfortable, than, say, a sharp stick in the eye. That said, they are a good value for the money.
Honestly, they are chocolate and Vinilla. chose a flavor. neither is better. The Mountianbike frame might have lugs for fitting a disk brake, but thats only a tiny advantage, and its going to have less range with the unneeded knobby tires.
$350 isn't cheap, but compared to the normal cost of an Ebike, it is. They do what they are suppose to do reliably. Of all the prebuilt Ebikes out there, its the only one I recomend.
the base bikes are both cheap departmentstore bikes, with no illusions of being great bicycles. They are fair bikes for the money. The mountian bike is a trail bike for dirt walking paths at best, and the comfort bike is more comfortable, than, say, a sharp stick in the eye. That said, they are a good value for the money.
Honestly, they are chocolate and Vinilla. chose a flavor. neither is better. The Mountianbike frame might have lugs for fitting a disk brake, but thats only a tiny advantage, and its going to have less range with the unneeded knobby tires.
$350 isn't cheap, but compared to the normal cost of an Ebike, it is. They do what they are suppose to do reliably. Of all the prebuilt Ebikes out there, its the only one I recomend.
thanks for the replies. you're right, i finally got a chance to check out the 2 up close, and basically, it's only different in seats, tires, and paint jobs (and the disc brake holder). altho if ur getting it onilne from wally, the packaging is terrible--one didn't have a battery in the box, and the other had a bent up front wheel. they use the Styrofoam sparingly, and u can see holes where there's no support. the box says not to lay it on it's side, but it's quite heavy and big and thin (on one side), so you can't help but put it the way it says not to. plus if you do ship to store option, walmart will sometimes automatically return the whole thing if it looks too terrible, but they don't tell u until like several days later, only to make you reorder and wait again.
