2013: Year of illegal fast production ebike
- Thread starter Green Machine
- Start date
Kent
1 kW
ecowheelz said:
Well what's going to happen to that little old lady when she looses control ...of her Buick at 30 mph?
Restricting what the industry offers is not the answer to the problem They sell 160 mph motorcycles to anyone off the street. Where is the big fuss about that? We are talking 25-40 mph here. The simple solution is to let manufacturers sell what they want as long as it meets safety standards, and allow the purchaser/cyclist to purchase a "moped or Motor driven Cycle " license plate. If they make them take a driver ed course, so be it.
Frankly, I don't like government or industry telling me what I can or cannot buy. Surely they have bigger fish to fry than worrying about what someone may do on a motorized bike. How about keeping us out of the next war they are so anxious to start?
sk8norcal
1 MW
i see this 26" FS folder
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Off-Road-E-Bike-48V-1000W-Foldable-Frame-48V-20Ah-Lockable-Li-ion-Battery-/181124800524?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a2be1200c
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Off-Road-E-Bike-48V-1000W-Foldable-Frame-48V-20Ah-Lockable-Li-ion-Battery-/181124800524?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a2be1200c
That seems like kind of a deal, as long as your a tinkerer or live next to an LBS willing to work on eBikes...
Dam rear rack mounted batteries... for the really low cost ebikes they are like herpes, they just wont go away...
EDIT: Ha S.M. ... didn't see the shipping cost... 1700, thats still quite a deal!
Dam rear rack mounted batteries... for the really low cost ebikes they are like herpes, they just wont go away...
EDIT: Ha S.M. ... didn't see the shipping cost... 1700, thats still quite a deal!
RLD70
100 W
spinningmagnets said:
This looks like an ElectricRiders Paratrooper clone ebike using what appears to me to be the GM PRO 901 motor instead of a Clyte motor. And the battery pack looks to me like it would interfere with the folding of the bike if you mount it under the top tube. The one's Ive seen on ebay fold and even ElectricRider has their battery pack on the back rack.
sk8norcal
1 MW
but two very different folding design.
one is based on the montague 'seatpost' folding design
both took an existing folding mt bike and electrify it.
i think there is more to it than just mounting the battery under the top tube with that design.
it would look weird and out of place.
ran across this,
battery in the top tube, but its only 36v
http://dysonbikes.com.au/
http://www.ecbuyshop.com/category/electric-bicycle/
http://www.ecbuyshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Y_2011_11_25_ZQS_11761-ok.jpg
mr.electric
10 kW
The specialized and stormer get away with illegal speed by doing away with the throttle. You have to pedal it up to 30mph with these high end pedelecs. 30mph with a throttle would be a different story. These bikes are legal to ride in CA with no license. According to the bicycle magazine article and professional legal review.
A 30mph throttle bike is a different story. A 30 mph throttle bike is dangerous if sold to an unskilled over confident rider. More so if it is made with cheap chinese components. People have this funny trust in industry and think, this must be safe if it is sold on the open market. It takes some riding skill to navigate a fragile bicycle over city streets at 30 mph. New riders that are over confident could wreck. Don't get me wrong, I believe people should have the opportunity to try fast ebikes and should take responsibility for their own wrecks I just can't see a big successful company getting involved in making illegal ebikes.
A 30mph throttle bike is a different story. A 30 mph throttle bike is dangerous if sold to an unskilled over confident rider. More so if it is made with cheap chinese components. People have this funny trust in industry and think, this must be safe if it is sold on the open market. It takes some riding skill to navigate a fragile bicycle over city streets at 30 mph. New riders that are over confident could wreck. Don't get me wrong, I believe people should have the opportunity to try fast ebikes and should take responsibility for their own wrecks I just can't see a big successful company getting involved in making illegal ebikes.
USAEBIKECO
10 kW
MadRhino
100 GW
They found the easy way to illusion of power: Wheelie start with low Ampspinningmagnets said:
They didn't use the front "triangle" for batteries, probably because they couldn't find a way to keep it folding
arkmundi
10 MW
Hey, thanks for a great post outlining the best of production ebikes available!
sk8norcal, I'm starting to like that shape. Battery inside the top-tube, and lots of room for a mid-drive just in front of the BB...
It looks like a lot of companies have pondered this issue and many are choosing a pedelec. Their customers will have to pedal to get the extra power, and no tickets written because you "forgot" to pedal when a policeman passes by you at 27-MPH.
It looks like a lot of companies have pondered this issue and many are choosing a pedelec. Their customers will have to pedal to get the extra power, and no tickets written because you "forgot" to pedal when a policeman passes by you at 27-MPH.
sk8norcal
1 MW
haha! :lol:
[youtube]8sxzNHnLwuU[/youtube]
[youtube]8sxzNHnLwuU[/youtube]
miro13car
100 kW
sk8norcal said:
sk8norcal
1 MW
not sure what ur point is,
on falco's website it says 20mph on their "36v 1000watt" kit
on falco's website it says 20mph on their "36v 1000watt" kit
ecowheelz said:
I agree with your assessment of the masses. I would like to see some consistent law passed. Maryland is now requiring insurance and title for all "mopeds" 1.5hp or less. Meant for 49cc scooters, it regulates everything!
I say no regulation for 20mph controlled, 500W or less ebikes.
For high power, moped bikes, 20-30mph range, i'm ok with some requirements like a front light, drivers/moped license. compromise.
So don't make 20-30mph ebikes illegal. Classify them as mopeds and make them legal.
About the Optibikes, I would only classify the 1100R as not street legal.
The 750W (1hp) is motor output at the wheel, correct? the 850 @ .85 eff is 722 W. It also has a 300W eco mode. Ok, that may not convince the law. Speed 22-23 mph un assisted,
I owned an 850li and had a CA on the battery after a year and half. It would draw 820W fresh, then typically 750W for 5 miles.
I traded for an 1100R and got an ibike meter. It was tricky to calibrate, but it confirmed 1100W out. Speed 30-32 non assist, tucked.
The 750W (1hp) is motor output at the wheel, correct? the 850 @ .85 eff is 722 W. It also has a 300W eco mode. Ok, that may not convince the law. Speed 22-23 mph un assisted,
I owned an 850li and had a CA on the battery after a year and half. It would draw 820W fresh, then typically 750W for 5 miles.
I traded for an 1100R and got an ibike meter. It was tricky to calibrate, but it confirmed 1100W out. Speed 30-32 non assist, tucked.
mabman
100 W
While I certainly enjoy speed as much as the next guy, at least the guys here, my experience over the last 13 yrs. adapting small motors both gas and electric to bicycles has been more about torque than speed.
All of the EU standard bikes I have ridden are a joke in this department, including the oh so popular Bion X. As the poster from England said EU spec bikes are hardly worth the extra expense/weight/complexity in order to average as much speed as a reasonably fit person can muster. But the multitudes that are buying them like hotcakes across the pond must see it differently. However you do notice that the "speed" pedelec movement is coming on strong there. But even these lack the torque required to compensate fully for the weight of the system in hilly terrain, especially if you want to carry more than your lunch.
We are pretty lucky here to have the 750w fed regs, and in some cases like here in OR where I reside 1000w because I know for a fact you can get some torque out of the right motor/battery combo. I built up a BOB Yak trailer several years ago with a Magic Pie and 48v LiFePo4 that while it would only do 20 on the top end it would launch with authority from a dead stop, using a throttle, and climb the steepest streets in town and there are some pretty steep ones around. I like to pedal along and so that helps some for sure especially being able to go 40+ miles averaging 19 mph in hilly terrain on a 12ah battery that comes up against the BMS at 9.35ah.
So in my perfect world scenario I see motor assist being more applicable to compensating for carrying heavy loads than top speed. I have seen too many people struggling up even minor grades with their loaded down cargo bikes and running stop signs because they are so hard to get going again. It really surprises me actually that they are as popular as they are in fact. Torque is the answer to this equation and although there have been systems available to achieve this such as the Stoke Monkey for quite awhile the stigma of motor assist has yet to be overcome here in the US.
But as I have learned via my involvement in the bike industry over the last 25 years trends across the pond follow trends here and vice versa and I predict that 2014 will be the year that e bikes finally start to take hold here. At Interbike last fall there were several big name brands on display and will be even more this year. I am probably in the minority here in that I would be perfectly happy to see a 750w 20 mph legally compliant bike be the biggest seller of the year. It would be a way better machine than what the EU is selling, probably around the same price point, and get more people involved in e biking which is a good thing. In no way should this affect the goings on here on ES because there will still be the ability to tweak the crap out of stuff as usual.
All of the EU standard bikes I have ridden are a joke in this department, including the oh so popular Bion X. As the poster from England said EU spec bikes are hardly worth the extra expense/weight/complexity in order to average as much speed as a reasonably fit person can muster. But the multitudes that are buying them like hotcakes across the pond must see it differently. However you do notice that the "speed" pedelec movement is coming on strong there. But even these lack the torque required to compensate fully for the weight of the system in hilly terrain, especially if you want to carry more than your lunch.
We are pretty lucky here to have the 750w fed regs, and in some cases like here in OR where I reside 1000w because I know for a fact you can get some torque out of the right motor/battery combo. I built up a BOB Yak trailer several years ago with a Magic Pie and 48v LiFePo4 that while it would only do 20 on the top end it would launch with authority from a dead stop, using a throttle, and climb the steepest streets in town and there are some pretty steep ones around. I like to pedal along and so that helps some for sure especially being able to go 40+ miles averaging 19 mph in hilly terrain on a 12ah battery that comes up against the BMS at 9.35ah.
So in my perfect world scenario I see motor assist being more applicable to compensating for carrying heavy loads than top speed. I have seen too many people struggling up even minor grades with their loaded down cargo bikes and running stop signs because they are so hard to get going again. It really surprises me actually that they are as popular as they are in fact. Torque is the answer to this equation and although there have been systems available to achieve this such as the Stoke Monkey for quite awhile the stigma of motor assist has yet to be overcome here in the US.
But as I have learned via my involvement in the bike industry over the last 25 years trends across the pond follow trends here and vice versa and I predict that 2014 will be the year that e bikes finally start to take hold here. At Interbike last fall there were several big name brands on display and will be even more this year. I am probably in the minority here in that I would be perfectly happy to see a 750w 20 mph legally compliant bike be the biggest seller of the year. It would be a way better machine than what the EU is selling, probably around the same price point, and get more people involved in e biking which is a good thing. In no way should this affect the goings on here on ES because there will still be the ability to tweak the crap out of stuff as usual.
mabman
100 W
Miles said:
The advertised benchmarks for speed that manufacturers use is based on level ground as per federal regs. As soon as they hit a hill however speed will drop considerably due to lack of torque at the sacrifice of speed, please keep in mind that I am talking about production bikes that are aimed at the general public as the post title suggests.
Certainly there is a difference between a hub motor and a mid drive to be considered. The mid drive system will compensate via the use of the bicycle gearing and handle steeper grades with less strain on the motor, but a hub motor wound for speed will lose power in a hurry. Especially one like the Specialized as shown but the Stromer etc. will also do so. But neither of them will maintain 28mph up much of a grade in stock format.
In many regions across the globe there are hills and headwinds and very little flat ground so taking in consideration the topography an e bike will be used in is very important. Also add the purpose, whether it is commuting to work or trying to bring home the weeks supply of sundries from the market and/or carrying a kid or two to school. So what I am asking is whether speed as a marketing tool is that important? I would rather that there was a system that you could go 20 mph up a steep grade or against a stiff headwind while carrying a load, start from a stop effectively and pedal like a regular bike with little or no parasitic drag which would allow you to go faster than 20 unassisted on level ground and downhill and at the end of the ride you would have maintained a decent average speed of say 20 mph.
miro13car
100 kW
sk8norcal said:
of course it is obvious it is compliance speed restricted of course , it goes without saying.
As you can see here you can buy non-restricted FALCO kit in USA right now.
http://www.electricbicycleworld.com/750W-eBike-Kit-with-Integrated-Controller-and-ANT-p/hx-bb-mt-750-9ah.htm
FALCO is not only one gearless 36V hub drive which reaches easly 28 mph, EPLUS 1000W system on flat with zero headwind with me 66kg rider in 20C temperature easly reaches 29mph.
FALCO 1000W system is even more efficient than EPLUS and it has no problem reaching 28mph in similar conditions, I am sure.
There is many factors like method of control, magnet material used, bearings used, construction and design , etc. that ebike drive would need more than 36V nominal voltage to reach say 29mph.
sk8norcal
1 MW
ok, so Falco is a quality kit.
But it doesn't have anything to do with what I said,
I was specifically referring to your typical Chinese ebike vendors.
most carry 24v/36v
I was pointing out that my local Chinese ebike vendor starting to carry 48v turnkey ebike that doesn't have any speed limit.
(which pertains to this thread)
this thread is not about kits.
scroll down, falco kit on a montague, bottle battery
http://www.electricbicycleworld.com/750W-eBike-Kit-with-Integrated-Controller-and-ANT-p/hx-bb-mt-750-9ah.htm
But it doesn't have anything to do with what I said,
I was specifically referring to your typical Chinese ebike vendors.
most carry 24v/36v
I was pointing out that my local Chinese ebike vendor starting to carry 48v turnkey ebike that doesn't have any speed limit.
(which pertains to this thread)
this thread is not about kits.
spinningmagnets said:
scroll down, falco kit on a montague, bottle battery
http://www.electricbicycleworld.com/750W-eBike-Kit-with-Integrated-Controller-and-ANT-p/hx-bb-mt-750-9ah.htm
sk8norcal
1 MW
[youtube]TuwESVujaHg[/youtube]
