36V\48V 45A 1500w w\regen controller ?

[DrkAngel]

Looking to ID, get rating on this "DC 36V-48V 1500W E-bike Brushless Controller for Scooter Electric Bicycle Motors"

Claims
High\low? regen!
45A
reverse
"learn" cable = sensorless?
18 mosfet
Sine Wave

Seems too good to be true.
Chinglish description!

 

[Comrade]

45A

45A peak 22A sustained

looks like a KT, same extruded aluminum case, maybe there is a parent that makes it for KT and everyone else

 

[john61ct]

> High\low regen

What does this mean?

 

[DrkAngel]

Chinglish? labeling.



Anyone fluent in Chinglish?

Instrumentation line = to volt meter or led "meter"
Motor phase line = phase wires (power to motor)
Anti-theft power cord = pos & neg for anti-theft module etc (will test voltage, for alternate possible uses)
Reverse line = reverse (for eTrike) may use as anti-theft deterrent (full throttle as maim\kill function)
Anti-theft signal line = ? will not use
Learning line = sensorless setup-"learn"
Three-speed line = 3 separate phase or Amp modes Low, medium and high (full) speed
Patrol route = cruise control, will need to test\learn function\capability?
Low battery brake line = brake power disconnect (regen?)
Turn the line = throttle
High battery brake line = regen or max regen?
Hall line = hall wires (controls motor power)
Power cable = battery
Electric door line = key lock


Updating constantly - cable functions, better translated?

 

[donn]

If you were to actually buy this thing, next you'd have to install and configure it, with the help of the included instructions. If it were me, I think I'd be happy to pay a little more for something that's at least packaged better, and maybe better built as well. Maybe https://www.electricscooterparts.com/ (don't know for a fact they actually have stock.)

 

[E-HP]

Claims
High\low regen

I didn't see that in the description, but it does seem like a seemingly good deal for a 45A sine wave controller. The regen seems to be on or off via the brake switch. Seems like a good dumb controller that could work well with a cycle analyst in front of it. I like having a 3 speed switch. I'm wondering what Patrol Route is. Maybe something to do with the soft start throttle.

 

[donn]

The regen seems to be on or off via the brake switch.

I saw another controller with two different brake inputs - switch vs. voltage, the latter with a 12V brake light wire (but it's an input as far as the controller is concerned.) I think that's what "high battery brake line" is about.

Seems like a good dumb controller that could work well with a cycle analyst in front of it.

As opposed to a smart controller that won't work at all without a cycle analyst?

 

[E-HP]

As opposed to a smart controller that won't work at all without a cycle analyst?

Meaning the controller provides the bare bones functionality that you need from a controller, and the CA provides the bells and whistles. If it could actually deliver to spec, and if the controller had variable regen, then it would basically be like one of the Grin units for 1/4 the price.

 

[aroundqube]

Patrol route looks like what used to be called the speed loop. Plug together for legal top speed on a patrolled route. The 2 anti theft plugs ,I would expect would connect to an external anti-theft module . Something like this https://cart.electricscooterparts.com/alarm-with-key-fob-for-brushless-dc-motor-speed-controllers . Electric door line connects to battery + , and turns on the controller. A key switch can be added in that connection.

 

[donn]

Meaning the controller provides the bare bones functionality that you need from a controller, and the CA provides the bells and whistles.

Well, I guess it's a question of taste what exactly "dumb" means, but what I'm saying is that a controller like that ebay POS - or my Infineon clone, which has many of those connectors plus a CA plug - has a lot of functionality that's actually duplicated by CA. For example CA can do the cruise control, but so can these KT/KH controllers. The CA in my setup simply serves as a display - it doesn't have any functional role - so it would seem somewhat misleading to describe it as a dumb controller that could work well with a cycle analyst in front of it, though it does work fine like that. I don't know anything about this ebay-from-China controller, maybe it's more dumb, but mine doesn't have an anti-flying function that I know about, so there's that (... though I do have "soft start", not enabled.)

 

[E-HP]

Meaning the controller provides the bare bones functionality that you need from a controller, and the CA provides the bells and whistles.

Well, I guess it's a question of taste what exactly "dumb" means, but what I'm saying is that a controller like that ebay POS - or my Infineon clone, which has many of those connectors plus a CA plug - has a lot of functionality that's actually duplicated by CA. For example CA can do the cruise control, but so can these KT/KH controllers. The CA in my setup simply serves as a display - it doesn't have any functional role - so it would seem somewhat misleading to describe it as a dumb controller that could work well with a cycle analyst in front of it, though it does work fine like that. I don't know anything about this ebay-from-China controller, maybe it's more dumb, but mine doesn't have an anti-flying function that I know about, so there's that (... though I do have "soft start", not enabled.)

I mean there is no interface/display to make any changes to the controller except the self learning connector and the speed limiter. It has a three speed switch, which is nice. What are the features that the CA would duplicate compared to this controller?

 

[donn]

What are the features that the CA would duplicate compared to this controller?

To me that seems like kind of looking at it upside down - the question I have is, you'd put a CA in front of it, to do what? Serve as a display, right? You can route the throttle through the CA and do cruise control for example, but this controller very likely has that (or may not, we don't really know what all of that means, but they commonly do.) The only thing I guess you might need CA for, other than display, is if you wanted to hook up some kind of pedal assist sensors.

 

[E-HP]

What are the features that the CA would duplicate compared to this controller?

To me that seems like kind of looking at it upside down - the question I have is, you'd put a CA in front of it, to do what? Serve as a display, right? You can route the throttle through the CA and do cruise control for example, but this controller very likely has that (or may not, we don't really know what all of that means, but they commonly do.) The only thing I guess you might need CA for, other than display, is if you wanted to hook up some kind of pedal assist sensors.

It's not for everyone, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I see a 48v-72V version, and ready to take a chance on one. Also, not trying to say you're looking at it wrong either.

 

[dogman dan]

I don't see where it says it has self learning. If it had self learn, all the phase wires would be the same color.

Patrol cable could be it, but I doubt it, more likely a high low jumper. Stuff like the door wire you can just ignore, like I always did with e brakes.

This controller is priced about right, for what it is. Id consider the sine wave claim to be total BS at that price. And if it does not have the self learning, I'd never buy it. Sure, its easy to dope out the combo, but its soooooooo much easier with self learn, which you can find easy in a similar controller at similar price. With self learn, you just hook up the wires in any order so long as black and red match on the halls, and connect the jumper. Hit the throttle and it spins as long as all your connections are good. Then unplug the learn jumper wires.

My experience is these cheapo controllers usually last a year or more of hard use, but buying two can be handy if the first one fails right out the box. It happens, and controllers like these are cheap enough to buy two. Test both for a week or so right away though!!! Then if one is junk, you can have them send another.

 

[DrkAngel]

I don't see where it says it has self learning. If it had self learn, all the phase wires would be the same color.

Patrol cable could be it, but I doubt it, more likely a high low jumper. Stuff like the door wire you can just ignore, like I always did with e brakes.

Cable labeled "Learning line"?

 

[dogman dan]

Ahh, now I see it. More proof of my brain damage from west nile.

Buy it. Decent price for that type controller, though it could be possible to find one slightly less money.

I tended to be willing to pay 10-15 bucks more to get one shipped from LA, vs one from China. Get it faster, etc.

 

[donn]

Is he going to be able to set it up for his motor, effectively without instructions? I've never done that, maybe it's easy.

 

[dogman dan]

With self learning controllers, its very easy. No having to guess which combo works on the phases and halls.

 

[DrkAngel]

.
... Better English labeling!



Much clearer!
"Low potential brake" must be brake handle disconnect?
Which would leave
"High potential brake" as regen?
"Alarm" functions ... still a mystery?



New - USA shipped - variant. - non regen? Only 14 FETs?

 

[amberwolf]

"Low potential brake" must be brake handle disconnect?
Which would leave
"High potential brake" as regen?

Most likely the low means you ground the signal line to the other one (if it's two wire) to activate the brake. The high would then likely be a 12v-operated brake line so you can connect it to a brake-light lever that's already wired to a brake light activated with 12v. A couple controllers I've worked with were like this.

One of those controllers had regen and the other didn't (no way to enable it), and boht methods worked the same on each controller (the one with regen activated regen on either low or high, the one without didn't have regen on either low or high but just disabled the motor).

Some reports here on ES show that some controllers with low and high have no regen on the one, and full regen on the other, so I guess you'd have to test it to find out.

Some of the high lines have also been reported to work on higher than 12v (full battery voltage) but I don't know if that's the case for all.

Some controllers also have a relay inside that is activated by the ebrake signal, to be used for a brake light. I've never had one of those that also had a wiring diagram so I don't know what they'd call that signal in the translations.

"Alarm" functions ... still a mystery?

The alarm wiring (what voltages they had on them, at least) on some of the controllers I've had is documented in the threads for them, but I never tested what they did. I couldn't find them in a quick search though. :/



One of the controllers that I'm still using uses a line that I think went to that group of wires as an antitheft lock, which keeps the controller "on" and causes it to fight all rotation of the wheel (but otherwise not to power the wheel).
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68501
in my case I wired that X wire to the DS wire so that it is only activated when ebrake is on, but as used in the alarm wiring it would be activated (grounded?) when the alarm is on and the bike is not in use.

 

[donn]

I don't find that labeling a whole lot clearer. Reverse fuction is an interesting feature, though. They cleared up the cruise control thing, that's good. Can you configure the cruise control interval? It comes on after some seconds of steady throttle, but as it appears there's no USB/whatever connection for a computer, there would be no configuring parameters like that.

 

[dogman dan]

I'm assuming he's not using it on a scooter, so many of the confusing wires just get ignored.

Personally I loathed e brakes on a throttle controlled bike anyway, so I would connect only the needed wires to run it.

Power red and black, with the electric lock connected to the red power line. Throttle, using only three wires. Replace plug if needed to match my throttle plug. Halls, and phases.

I did not want assist levels choices, so I would just find one without that.

All others ignore except the self learn when you needed it to mate to a new motor.

 

[DrkAngel]

IDed enough to justify purchase

Chinglish? labeling.

Anyone fluent in Chinglish?

Instrumentation line = to volt meter or led "meter"
Motor phase line = phase wires (power to motor)
Anti-theft power cord = pos & neg for anti-theft module etc (enable\disable?) (will test voltage, for alternate possible uses)
Reverse line = reverse (for eTrike) may use as anti-theft deterrent (full throttle as crash\maim\kill function)
Anti-theft signal line = ? will not use
Learning line = sensorless setup-"learn"
Three-speed line = 3 separate phase or Amp modes Low, medium and high (full) speed
Patrol route = cruise control, will need to test\learn function\capability?
Low battery brake line = brake power disconnect (regen?)
Turn the line = throttle
High battery brake line = regen or max regen?
Hall line = hall wires (controls motor power)
Power cable = battery
Electric door line = key lock


Updating constantly - cable functions, better translated?

Already purchased 14 fet (35A, non-regen?) version ($37) as spare for 36V and 48V eBikes (last one!?)
Ready to purchase for 1500w build, I have 10s and 15s MJ1 batteries and 14s MH1 batteries.
Tempted to purchase 48-72V variant but already 40mph capable at 52V, don't need the temptation-risk, not on a bicycle.