Föppel
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Hey Folks!
its been a while since i posted here. In the meantime i learned some CAD and got into 3D printing. Here's what that led to...
A mostly 3D-printed mid-drive motor which I can quick and easy install and remove from the bike with 4 snap-lock pins.
I'll try to update this first post with all the fotos and important information. I'll publish the finished video about the motor on my YouTube channel “Dirt-E-Bikes” www.youtube.com/@Dirt-E-Bikes when it is up and running. Lately, I've been posting a lot about 3D printing there, including reviews of the 3D printers I use, take a look, if you are interessted in that
this 3D-printed Motor goes in the Frame of a Kona Cowan...
here is the reason why i wanted it to be a Kona Cowan (again)...
This one i built around... 2015 or so?
at some point i changed the wheels to 24" and it felt amazing. Not sure if it is the geometry (i guess) but i also really like the "kind of BMX"-look of it.
i frame-mounted a LR small block kit but had several problems with it, regarding things that bent and also the chain (not installed on this foto) that runs to the BB was way to long for my likings.
The Bike (frame) itself was/is solid, i rebuilt it several times with BMC and Bafang motors, and it was the perfect size for my Girlfriend, she loved it, but do to reasons, we had to sell it at some point.
Now 10 Years later, i wanted to build the exact same Bike but better for her again, and here we are.
It gets mounted with 4 Pins directly on to the downtube and seat-tube...
1. stage reduction is LR-Smallblock style with a 3D-printed 90T pulley on a freewheel.
As you can see, i also made parts from metal...
Jackshaft axis is made from D2 Toolsteel, motorplate is aluminum as well as the plates that connect the motor to the frame. for this i use these 4 Pins that can be found in nautical applications; pressing the button unlocks them at the other end.
just some of the prototype parts... 3D printing makes it so easy to make these... as you can see, i also did a lot of the big 90T Belt pulleys. i printed them from PLA (most affordable and easyest to print) and the final parts from more rigid materials like ABS, ASA, PETG. I will have to make some parts from so called "advanced filaments" like PET-carbon fibre and Nylons. These Materials can withstand very high temperatures, i will use them to make a turbine like structure that mounts directly to the outrunner motor, to add air cooling. Not sure how much power i will use in the end, but allways nice to have the motor running as cool as possible.
here is a photo of the 219 chain and the chain-tensioner
This one here was also a bit of a pain to design...
it is the adapter for the freewheel on the side of the 1. reduction (Belt-Side)
"in the old days" i ordered and built 5 LR small block kit (-Bikes) for me and friends, and had some spare parts extra that i wanted to use...
But these were made from aluminum and after some time with 2000-3000 watt, they showed some play, resulting in wobbling Belt-Pulleys... so this one is made from D2 tool-steel, that should work.
I also tried to design it in a way so that it has a maximum possible contact area with the axis. It will be held in place by a 4mm key and 2 C-clips ( i think that is what they are called). Not 100% sure if these clips will hold it in place... Another thing that remains to be seen. I had all the metal parts made by PCBWay.com and they came out great.
To be transparent here, PCBWay is a sponsor of my YouTube channel, just to say...
In the background you can also see a blurry 3D-printed prototype of this part
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As for the controller, I wanted to try out an ESC and decided on the FS75100 from VESC. It's rated at 100 A... I think that's phase amps and the battery output is around 30 A (?).
In any case, it looks nice and is small enough for my intended use.
i hooked it up to the motor and to my Laptop by USB, run the calibration, and everything seems to work.
I tested it with a 52V Battery from EM3EV. But I'm not sure yet what kind of battery I'll ultimately use. Maybe I'll even try power tool batteries, as they are small and light... 2x 20 volt packs in series... Not sure if that would be enough power for me...
any suggestions?
I ordered a BMS for 10-14S and plan to re-use some of my Samsung 30Q to make a 10-14S 1P pack. I want it on top of the Motor assembly, together with the Flipsky controller. So that everything can be removed and mounted with only the 4 "Butten-Bolts" (?).
if money would not be a problem, i would go with some high discharge 21700 5Ah. That would be optimal, but i will use what i have for now. For longer rides i can hook up a bigger pack when it is needed, but i want something as small and light as possible for this this to begin with.
As you can see, i already hove some holes at the top of the Motor assembly. They are meant to hold the Controller and Battery... in some way that i have to figure out
so here we go, starting with the battery for this Bike, or should i say for this Motor-Kit… because as i wrote before, i want both, the bike going 1500 - or even 2000 Watt, and the battery beeing as small and lightweight as possible. Here are the components i bought to make a small battery (probably 10s1p) that should fit on the motor kit in the bikes frame.
BMS with bluetooth for 10-14s battery
quite small, and 40A discharge will be way to much for 1p, but that should work.
then i also wanted to have the charger as small and light as possible, so i found this cheap one here:
… that one comes with a 5.2mm charging plug
so i bought some of these female 5.2mm plugs to solder one to the BMS and integrate the plug on the side of the battery.
i started drawing some battery Ideas in CAD, but had not much time to really work on it, e.g. printing some prototypes.
In the upcoming weeks i will work on that and post some pictures of the progress.
It is clear that the motor will not run on more than... lets say 250 watt or so with this kind of battery, but that is okay for its intended use (of this battery, not on the motor kit itself). For the testing with higher power, i will probably just make a XT60 connector on the Controller to hook up a 14S5p battery that will go in my backpack for the fun rides
the reduction of the motor is more set to a 10s pack than to 14s, but i think (hope) that in the highest gear it should be fine
Some progress;
i was finally able to get the ACS Freewheel removed from the old and meshed up Axle-Adapter (made from Aluminum) and install it on the new one that is made from D2 Tool steel and is also way beefier and with smaller tolerances, to get rid of the wobble i had when using the Adapters from GNG and LR.
everything fits well, and is now secured by C-Clips with almost zero play
then i drilled out the holes of the 3D printed parts that hold the motor kit to the frame by these "Nautic push button pins" .
The tolerances on these 3D printed parts were a bit to tight for getting the Pins in and out easy. Not sure if - and what kind of - oil i could use there with the PETG Material used there, if you know this, please let me know.
Now i can start working on the controller mounting, soldering cables and connectors and all that funny stuff
As i am pretty sure that i want to test the Motor Kit with an 52V battery from my backpack, i thought to just mount the controller on top of the Motor-kit, something like this.
unfortunately i can only post 20 pictures in one post - my plan was to insert every new post here in the first one, so people can see/read it all in one go. That does not seem to work, so i just insert a picture of the current status of this project here:
About the 3D-Printers i use to build this;
I like to use the Qidi Q2 for all the "advanced materials" (ABS,ASA,PC,Nylon and all the carbon-fiber reinforced stuff)
For everything else, i use the P2S from Bambu Lab. Both great printers with strengts and weaknesses in different areas. I Made a Review/Comparison Video about them, if you are interessted in this topic, you are welcome to take a look
now one more question;
does someone know where to get Freewheels like the (old) ACS ones i am using? I think they are not being made anymore... White Enos would be an alternative, but way to expensive. Are there any alternatives that are "okay/desent"?
answered questions: I used to build freewheel cranks with parts from Sickbikeparts.com. Unfortunately, they no longer exist... Does anyone know where you can get pedal arms with threads for a freewheel these days?
--> question answered by A-DamW, thanks a lot
i wish you all a good time building sick bikes
Cheers
its been a while since i posted here. In the meantime i learned some CAD and got into 3D printing. Here's what that led to...
A mostly 3D-printed mid-drive motor which I can quick and easy install and remove from the bike with 4 snap-lock pins.
I'll try to update this first post with all the fotos and important information. I'll publish the finished video about the motor on my YouTube channel “Dirt-E-Bikes” www.youtube.com/@Dirt-E-Bikes when it is up and running. Lately, I've been posting a lot about 3D printing there, including reviews of the 3D printers I use, take a look, if you are interessted in that
this 3D-printed Motor goes in the Frame of a Kona Cowan...
here is the reason why i wanted it to be a Kona Cowan (again)...
This one i built around... 2015 or so?
at some point i changed the wheels to 24" and it felt amazing. Not sure if it is the geometry (i guess) but i also really like the "kind of BMX"-look of it.
i frame-mounted a LR small block kit but had several problems with it, regarding things that bent and also the chain (not installed on this foto) that runs to the BB was way to long for my likings.
The Bike (frame) itself was/is solid, i rebuilt it several times with BMC and Bafang motors, and it was the perfect size for my Girlfriend, she loved it, but do to reasons, we had to sell it at some point.
Now 10 Years later, i wanted to build the exact same Bike but better for her again, and here we are.
It gets mounted with 4 Pins directly on to the downtube and seat-tube...
1. stage reduction is LR-Smallblock style with a 3D-printed 90T pulley on a freewheel.
As you can see, i also made parts from metal...
Jackshaft axis is made from D2 Toolsteel, motorplate is aluminum as well as the plates that connect the motor to the frame. for this i use these 4 Pins that can be found in nautical applications; pressing the button unlocks them at the other end.
just some of the prototype parts... 3D printing makes it so easy to make these... as you can see, i also did a lot of the big 90T Belt pulleys. i printed them from PLA (most affordable and easyest to print) and the final parts from more rigid materials like ABS, ASA, PETG. I will have to make some parts from so called "advanced filaments" like PET-carbon fibre and Nylons. These Materials can withstand very high temperatures, i will use them to make a turbine like structure that mounts directly to the outrunner motor, to add air cooling. Not sure how much power i will use in the end, but allways nice to have the motor running as cool as possible.
here is a photo of the 219 chain and the chain-tensioner
This one here was also a bit of a pain to design...
it is the adapter for the freewheel on the side of the 1. reduction (Belt-Side)
"in the old days" i ordered and built 5 LR small block kit (-Bikes) for me and friends, and had some spare parts extra that i wanted to use...
But these were made from aluminum and after some time with 2000-3000 watt, they showed some play, resulting in wobbling Belt-Pulleys... so this one is made from D2 tool-steel, that should work.
I also tried to design it in a way so that it has a maximum possible contact area with the axis. It will be held in place by a 4mm key and 2 C-clips ( i think that is what they are called). Not 100% sure if these clips will hold it in place... Another thing that remains to be seen. I had all the metal parts made by PCBWay.com and they came out great.
To be transparent here, PCBWay is a sponsor of my YouTube channel, just to say...
In the background you can also see a blurry 3D-printed prototype of this part
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the controller, I wanted to try out an ESC and decided on the FS75100 from VESC. It's rated at 100 A... I think that's phase amps and the battery output is around 30 A (?).
In any case, it looks nice and is small enough for my intended use.
i hooked it up to the motor and to my Laptop by USB, run the calibration, and everything seems to work.
I tested it with a 52V Battery from EM3EV. But I'm not sure yet what kind of battery I'll ultimately use. Maybe I'll even try power tool batteries, as they are small and light... 2x 20 volt packs in series... Not sure if that would be enough power for me...
any suggestions?
I ordered a BMS for 10-14S and plan to re-use some of my Samsung 30Q to make a 10-14S 1P pack. I want it on top of the Motor assembly, together with the Flipsky controller. So that everything can be removed and mounted with only the 4 "Butten-Bolts" (?).
if money would not be a problem, i would go with some high discharge 21700 5Ah. That would be optimal, but i will use what i have for now. For longer rides i can hook up a bigger pack when it is needed, but i want something as small and light as possible for this this to begin with.
As you can see, i already hove some holes at the top of the Motor assembly. They are meant to hold the Controller and Battery... in some way that i have to figure out
so here we go, starting with the battery for this Bike, or should i say for this Motor-Kit… because as i wrote before, i want both, the bike going 1500 - or even 2000 Watt, and the battery beeing as small and lightweight as possible. Here are the components i bought to make a small battery (probably 10s1p) that should fit on the motor kit in the bikes frame.
BMS with bluetooth for 10-14s battery
quite small, and 40A discharge will be way to much for 1p, but that should work.
then i also wanted to have the charger as small and light as possible, so i found this cheap one here:
… that one comes with a 5.2mm charging plug
so i bought some of these female 5.2mm plugs to solder one to the BMS and integrate the plug on the side of the battery.
i started drawing some battery Ideas in CAD, but had not much time to really work on it, e.g. printing some prototypes.
In the upcoming weeks i will work on that and post some pictures of the progress.
It is clear that the motor will not run on more than... lets say 250 watt or so with this kind of battery, but that is okay for its intended use (of this battery, not on the motor kit itself). For the testing with higher power, i will probably just make a XT60 connector on the Controller to hook up a 14S5p battery that will go in my backpack for the fun rides
the reduction of the motor is more set to a 10s pack than to 14s, but i think (hope) that in the highest gear it should be fine
Some progress;
i was finally able to get the ACS Freewheel removed from the old and meshed up Axle-Adapter (made from Aluminum) and install it on the new one that is made from D2 Tool steel and is also way beefier and with smaller tolerances, to get rid of the wobble i had when using the Adapters from GNG and LR.
everything fits well, and is now secured by C-Clips with almost zero play
then i drilled out the holes of the 3D printed parts that hold the motor kit to the frame by these "Nautic push button pins" .
The tolerances on these 3D printed parts were a bit to tight for getting the Pins in and out easy. Not sure if - and what kind of - oil i could use there with the PETG Material used there, if you know this, please let me know.
Now i can start working on the controller mounting, soldering cables and connectors and all that funny stuff
As i am pretty sure that i want to test the Motor Kit with an 52V battery from my backpack, i thought to just mount the controller on top of the Motor-kit, something like this.
unfortunately i can only post 20 pictures in one post - my plan was to insert every new post here in the first one, so people can see/read it all in one go. That does not seem to work, so i just insert a picture of the current status of this project here:
About the 3D-Printers i use to build this;
I like to use the Qidi Q2 for all the "advanced materials" (ABS,ASA,PC,Nylon and all the carbon-fiber reinforced stuff)
For everything else, i use the P2S from Bambu Lab. Both great printers with strengts and weaknesses in different areas. I Made a Review/Comparison Video about them, if you are interessted in this topic, you are welcome to take a look
now one more question;
does someone know where to get Freewheels like the (old) ACS ones i am using? I think they are not being made anymore... White Enos would be an alternative, but way to expensive. Are there any alternatives that are "okay/desent"?
answered questions: I used to build freewheel cranks with parts from Sickbikeparts.com. Unfortunately, they no longer exist... Does anyone know where you can get pedal arms with threads for a freewheel these days?
--> question answered by A-DamW, thanks a lot
i wish you all a good time building sick bikes
Cheers
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