48 Volt upgrade for RMartin (tonaro) ebike

[georgefromvt]

Last year I purchased an RMartin (tonaro) bike. I'm very happy with my purchase but interested in upgrading to 48 volt. I prefer to keep the stealth design--wires running within the frame so prefer not fiddling with much rewiring. I Noticed a company in France is offering a 48-volt upgrade. Any experience with this upgrade and is it plug/play? I am hesitant to call RMartins because they no longer carry the bracket mounted (tonaro) bikes.
http://www.electrics-bike.com/fr/
http://www.electrics-bike.com/fr/pieces-detachees/26-kit-48v-11-a-h.html

 

[dnmun]

you should cut the plastic off that pack so you can get the BMS out where it can cool itself off in the air. and show us a picture of those cylindrical cells so we can guess what they are.

 

[amberwolf]

The one thing to worry about with a voltage upgrade is that the motor and gearbox may be stressed more at the higher voltage because of the higher total power level.

 

[gorach]

The wiring loom on the tonaro is a nightmare and there is alot to be said for ripping it all out to begin again. This is especially true if you want to run that new controller and throttle. Both the motor and the controller seem able to take 48v without any heating issues in my experience of running like that for the last 4 months. You will lose the voltage indicator and the LVC of course so its a good idea to fit a watt meter. If you insist on changing the controller for some reason, it certainly wont be plug n play. At 1000watts this bike still only does 22mph.

 

[twain]

...At 1000watts this bike still only does 22mph.

hi gorach,

So was this your experience?

Any guesses why this may be so?

Cheers

 

[lesspedal]

The Gette version of this bike is governed to 32kph.
Remove magnet from rear wheel spokes to disable it.

 

[georgefromvt]

The Gette version of this bike is governed to 32kph.
Remove magnet from rear wheel spokes to disable it.

32KPH is 20 MPH but when you're 210 lbs in your birthday suit, 17 mph is more like it. The "average" bicycylist is 150 lbs per industry standards but I'm not standard. I'm not looking for more speed but a little bit more omph on hills. Next summer I'll probably upgrade to 48 volt. Our summer is almost over; not much sense spending the cash now. Won't be long before I pull out my ski bibs for Fall biking.

 

[gorach]

...At 1000watts this bike still only does 22mph.

hi gorach,

So was this your experience?

Any guesses why this may be so?

Cheers

At 36v the Tonaro does around 16mph unrestricted. At 48v it will do about 22mph. I had expected it to be a little faster as the amps were increased by about 30% as well as the voltage. Perhaps it is just a slow wound motor or maybe the original controller just doesn't like that new level of power and I am slowly cooking it. But the upgrade is extremely easy and well worth doing in my opinion. The logical next step is using two 36v batteries in series for 72v and restricting the current to say 15amps max, which may push the bike up closer to the magic 30mph mark while keeping the total wattage to a reasonable level and not melting the motor.

 

[Hillhater]

1000W of any type....( 36v x 28A, .. 48v x 21A , 60v x 17A , etc) ...should be enough to get you closer to 30 mph on the flat.
Maybe you just need to look at your gearing if you want to go that fast ?

 

[gorach]

1000W of any type....( 36v x 28A, .. 48v x 21A , 60v x 17A , etc) ...should be enough to get you closer to 30 mph on the flat.
Maybe you just need to look at your gearing if you want to go that fast ?

Aye, changing the chainwheel from 42t to mebe 52t is prob the way to go in the first instance but I'm not sure that is the problem. The acceleration is not that great in upper gears and the 1200w or so the turnigy meter indicates may reflect hill climbing peaks rather than typical flat road acceleration power levels. I will extend the watt meter cable and put it on the handlebars to get a better idea of when exactly the motor is drawing these peak power levels.
If I recall correctly, at 36v the bike averaged about 16mph at 10watt-hours per mile or so. At 48v it draws 20wh thereabouts for 4-6mph faster. These are fairly aproximate figures though and I shall try and refine the data when I move the meter.
I was impressed by the Aprilla Enjoy thread, a bike with a similar central motor and gearbox but which seemed to respond much more positively to over-volting.

 

[Hillhater]

Well, at 10 whr/mile its certainly not using 1000 W to maintain that 16mph speed. It suggests only 160W is used which corresponds to the accepted requirement for 16mph from bike power calculators.
Ditto for the 20Whr/mile @ 20-22 mph.
You must be well past its peak power rpm or there is a current /speed limiter acting in the controller.

Also, 21mph ( 16mph + 33%).. is exactly what you would expect by increasing the voltage by 33% ( 36 to 48v) on any motor. ! :wink:

you may notice also the un avoidable laws of physics at play here...
That extra 4-6mph more than doubles your power usage from 160W to 400W , so even with the higher speed, for the same battery capacity, you will almost halve your useable range !!.
Speed costs . :wink:

 

[gorach]

Fell of my bike the other day and broke my rib. Speed costs allright. According to the laws of biology, if I had been going slower mebe just have bruised them.
My wattmeter is reading a maximum 1000w-1300w after my usual commute. Dunno exactly where that applies to but assume it's one of the steeper sections along the way (some of which is slow, steep, offroad ). Is it the case that the controller feeds maybe 10amps max for normal flat cruising while pushing 20amps on short steep bits? Is this whats meant by the controllers rated current and it's max current? Can I deduce that by changing the controller to (rated) 20amps the speed would increase any on the flat?

 

[georgefromvt]

No 48 volt upgrade yet but just hit 1000 miles! Bike still runs as smoothly, quietly and torquey as the day I unboxed it. I'm very pleased with my purchase. Love the instant power and really enjoy accelerating by twisting the throttle and gearing up. Compared to hub powered bikes, the motor drives the chain so gearing up or down directly increases speed or torque; great for hilly areas like Vermont. Unfortunately RMartin no longer carries the Tonaro brand. iGO and Evelo are the main carries as well as EBikes of New England.
http://www.igoelectric.com/whyigo.php
http://www.ebikesofne.com/
http://www.evelo.com/shop/

 

[Frednet]

Looking for a cheap upgrade? I installed a 50T front gear and a 30T-11T rear cassette on my IGO Trail, instead of the 42T, 32T-11T original setup. The power is then much better managed by the gears and changes the whole feeling of the bike. I posted a entry on the procedure on my blog…
http://igofan.blogspot.ca/

 

[georgefromvt]

Hit 1300 miles and still running smooth. Cold as heck this time of year but still having a ball biking.

 

[gorach]

Thats great news George just dont upgrade to 48 and keep going. Have to say those handlebars are really duff, why is it Americans just dont know anything (about handlebars!)

 

[georgefromvt]

Thats great news George just dont upgrade to 48 and keep going. Have to say those handlebars are really duff, why is it Americans just dont know anything (about handlebars!)

You making fun of my bike?? Actually the bike came with mountain bike style handlebars but I switched them for cruiser style. I really hate bending over, hurts my back and I feel more comfortable sitting up right when riding. yeah, I lose some of the aerodynamic advantages but prefer sitting up rather than bent forward.