55mph Club

[Dr. Shock]

This is my beef with hybrid cars. That Toyota does as well as my parents' Honda Civic Hybrid which is heavier and way more complicated for all the fancy stuff on it. Honda lies about the hybrid mileage, too, whereas the Toyota does better than it is rated. I was just reading about the new BMW hybrids, which are laughable in their overcomplexity, and way overpowered. If they would just drop the power down to a reasonable level, they could leave off the hybrid junk and still get good mileage.

 

[Toshi]

This is my beef with hybrid cars. That Toyota does as well as my parents' Honda Civic Hybrid which is heavier and way more complicated for all the fancy stuff on it. Honda lies about the hybrid mileage, too, whereas the Toyota does better than it is rated. I was just reading about the new BMW hybrids, which are laughable in their overcomplexity, and way overpowered. If they would just drop the power down to a reasonable level, they could leave off the hybrid junk and still get good mileage.

Keep in mind that she averages 36-37 mpg combined cycle in typical driving. My parents average 45-46 mpg day in and day out in their Prius. That's a substantial difference even without taking into account that the Prius is much, much larger inside, more comfortable, quieter, and has all the amenities my parents take for granted (leather, Bluetooth, nav system, keyless/key fob-less entry and starting, HID headlights).

The Civic Hybrid may well be an underperformer, and the market has reflected this. The Prius, on the other hand, gets a big thumbs up from me. If I owned a car (I don't -- Zipcar and borrowed time in my parents' Prius is my "car" now) then I'd have a Prius.

 

[gogo]

I just got back from a trip in a 1996 Buick Roadmaster using non-ethanol blend gasoline. I went 600 miles @55/60/65/70 MPH in equal proportions with a 15-20 MPH tailwind and got 26 MPG.

On the way back I had an extra 750 lbs. of load, went 57 MPH for 450 miles with a slight head wind and got 26 MPG.

For the last 150 miles I went 70 MPH and got 22 MPG.

So, I got 18% better fuel economy at 57 vs 70 MPH. And tailwinds/drafting help too.

 

[Lowell]

I just finished testing out the 55mph thing tonight. End result on a full tank was a 6% improvement in mileage, and totally not worth it in my opinion. I also drove very gently from stoplights and up hills on this tank to try and get the best possible economy. I would rather spend $3.60 to not have every driver on the road giving me dirty looks, high beams, and general road rage.

 

[paultrafalgar]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/climate_ships_dc

That link is dead, try this instead:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/08/sky_sails_promi.php

 

[TylerDurden]

I just finished testing out the 55mph thing tonight. End result on a full tank was a 6% improvement in mileage, and totally not worth it in my opinion. I also drove very gently from stoplights and up hills on this tank to try and get the best possible economy. I would rather spend $3.60 to not have every driver on the road giving me dirty looks, high beams, and general road rage.

I suspect Lowell's buggy has a low Cd.

I put a test-fairing on my van and got a 25% improvement in fuel economy. A test tailbox is next.

Diesel here is $4.75/gal

 

[pwbset]

I put a test-fairing on my van and got a 25% improvement in fuel economy.

OMG.. as owner of an '89 Westy ("Duck Dodgers") I feel like my eyes just melted right out of their sockets. Your poor van! How can it bear to be seen in public like that regardless of fuel savings! Westy pride man! For the love of GOD Westy pride!

 

[Link]

I have this habit of leaning backwards in this chair so that it's only on the back two legs. When I saw that picture, I laughed and lost my balance, causing me to fall backwards out of this chair. I was still kinda laughing when I rolled over to get up.

I think I have ROFL'd for real.

 

[vanilla ice]

Use clear tape and some transparent plastic tubes for bracing. Then it would be invisible!

 

[TylerDurden]

This is only a test... only a test.

Besides, it will never look good, so what the hell. The point is trying it and measuring the results.

The lower air-dam (vinyl-siding) needs refinement, but it makes enough pressure to keep some air going through the radiator.

Side skirts and smooth bottoming are also on the list.

As for Westy-Pride, how could anyone not be proud of a veggie 48hp 5300lb brick that gets ~25mpg even when towing another Vanagon?

 

[paultrafalgar]

Now, Tyler, I know you think we think that's an Aerodynamic experiment, but we know better! That's just a ploy to fend of people trying to clean your wind/screen/shield at the lights
As for this ridiculous avatar oscillation between Fight Club and THAT! You're just taking the piss! :lol:
Don't you know you're supposed to balance Yin and Yang!
:lol:

 

[jmygann]

I never drive over 55 and usually drive 5-10 miles under the speed limit .

I find more and more drivers are willing to just fall in line than pass

 

[paultrafalgar]

Someone further up mentioned coasting. Do it down all your hills (if you have them). I do it all the time, every substantial hill (in my car). But don't turn off the ignition or you'll lose your brake servo , just let it idle. Here''s the slogan:
"Use gravity to save gas". I reckon (only guessing) it saves 2-3 mpg. And turn off all unnecessary electrics. AC uses 10% more fuel.

 

[TylerDurden]

Going slower generally has the benefit of less braking, which literally throws your energy to the wind.

BTW: So far, the test fairing is providing consistant results.

 

[vanilla ice]

Turns energy in to brake pads dust and hot rotors anyway, I'm amazed daily that the average person hits the brakes as soon as they get off the gas.. wtf. Throwing it to the wind, that'd be going 80 on the freeway..

 

[dogman dan]

I have ignored this thread since I thought it was about going fast on an ebike or something. I remember the 55 rule all too well and hated it. We should be allowed to make our own choice within reason, 60 mph in the city, and 70mph if the exits are over 10 miles apart. But being one of the first in my town to actually slow down to 60, five underthe speed limit on the in the city freeway, I know what Tyler means about the other drivers. Pull left to let some people on, and then get passed on the right for 10 miles. They won't let you get right again! By then I will be doing the speed limit but it's way too slow for them.
Anyway, I got started cuz the piece of crap truck I had about 4 years ago was getting about 10 mpg at 70 mph, and about 16 at 60 mph. You gotta know your vehicle and what it wants. Nowdays in my subaru, I get no noticable improvement by driving less than 65, due to the great overdrive it has, but 75 will cut about 3mpg, and 85 about 5 more mpg. So 65 mph is perfect for me now, and no way will I want to drive 55 in this particular car. But nowdays, with two ebikes in the garage, I fill er up regularly, about every 3 weeks. That is making a difference for sure!

 

[pwbset]

We should be allowed to make our own choice within reason

Problem is that 99.5% of people won't choose a speed "within reason". We didn't have a speed limit in Montana here for awhile and people were bringing their sports cars up here and killing themselves right and left. It was a true testament to Darwinism. Now we have a speed limit again.

 

[steveCA]

As long as I'm "burning" the electrons I've harvested from my private property, and not burning any fossil fuel, I refuse to feel very guilty about any speed I can muster above 33 MPH. Right, now, I can't get above that, so the issue is moot, for now But, with a bit of luck, some hard work, and with advice and help from this august forum, I shall soon achive truly neck breaking speeds!

I agree with everything said about fossil fuel and the urge to get there fast... the two are totally incompatible, given the socio/political/environmental/scientific milliu (bad situation) in which we find ourselves.

But hey, since when have we shrunk from a challenge? I produced 970 KWH from my PV array this month, but I still had to buy 30 or 40 KWH from Edison... pisses me off! I don't have the funds to expand my solar array, I'll have to come up with another way to gen up those electrons to charge my vehicles! And thankfully, the Web is like the biggest junkyard I've ever had the joy of exploring...!

So what about this....

A new type of engine has been invented that will efficiently use low pressure gas (2 to 20lb of steam, compressed air, any vapor under pressure) to produce mechanical energy, and hence electricity. http://www.greensteamengine.com/ You may have seen this already. The problem is... how to get that sunshine into gas-under-pressure. Maybe these folks in Alaska have a solution... http://www.yourownpower.com/

They use their 165 degree F hot springs water to flash R-134 refrigerant from liquid to vapor to drive a big turbine. R-134 has a very low flash temperature. They are producing Megawatts with 480 gpm of 165 degree F hot water.

I have maybe, a thousand sq ft of sunny roof. I think its possible to get 5 hp (a mere 3.73 KW) out of that.... not completely sure yet, but it certainly sounds like a fun next project! Collect the solar thermal power using low cost, low temperature panels, use a heat exchanger (an enclosed car radiator) to flash the refigerant, and the low pressure multi-cyclinder flexrod to drive the 4 KW AC generator. I'll use a couple or three more car radiators to condense the refrigerant, or maybe come up with a better use for the excess heat.

If I collect that for a few days, and save for a couple of decades for a Tesla, I can really go fast! And not feel guilty! Meantime, I'll stick to my ebike. :lol:

SteveCA

 

[TylerDurden]

Home designs from the 17th/18th/19th centuries can be real problems. I was just ruminating on a solar powered de-humidifier... I need one badly. Frickn' energy hogs.

The 55club is part of a personal austerity program to do the most with the least. i.e. I haven't taken the garbage bin to the curb in over a month and it's still only half full.

The day I say goodbye to Big-Oil entirely... cannot come soon enough.

 

[dogman dan]

Where did I post no speed limit at all? My idea of reasonable maximum speeds in the post were 60 city and 70 highway, five mph less than most states now. Speeding sob's don't care about anybodys safety including their own, and still drove 100 back in the 55 days. I just don't think the state should mandate conservation by speed limit. Economics will do that soon enough anyway, and within posted limits people should be able to drive any speed they want. People dozing that whack Tylers trailer should be ticketed big time. As much as I support Tyler in his quest to use less energy for everything, I disagree with ramming it down everybodys throat. BTW back in the day, since few cops agreed with the 55 law in New Mexico, you were pretty sure that only a state trooper would ticket you. Boy that really helped safety, no cops enforcing the speed limit at all unless they were off the interstate. Take a good look at how the law works when everybody hates it by studying alcohol prohibition.

 

[gast42]

As well and good as that might be, you forget economies of scale. What's your most precious commodity? Mine's time. Time is one of those things you're hard pressed to buy more of. Going from 30mpg to 20mpg seems trivial to saving hours off of long distances. Even those few minutes saved in short commutes add up. Would you rather save 33% in your fuel costs or spend 27% more time with loved ones?

Until my hourly wage is less than my hourly fuel costs, I will favor higher speeds over fuel economy.

 

[dogman dan]

Exactly why it should be an individual choice. Whithin posted speed limits of course. I drive slow all the time now, and my e bike takes 80 minuites longer to get to work and back out of my day, 4 days a week. I drive the car on payday to go shopping, once a week. But if i'm going over 200 miles, I will drive 5 mph over the speed limit for sure. Towns are 70 miles apart here.

 

[TylerDurden]

But if i'm going over 200 miles, I will drive 5 mph over the speed limit for sure. Towns are 70 miles apart here.

I can appreciate the value of time saved and minimizing the joy of staring at the road.

But, I prefer to get there more slowly and use that time to ruminate on the next project. I never have enough time to just sit and think anyway.

 

[Toshi]

Until my hourly wage is less than my hourly fuel costs, I will favor higher speeds over fuel economy.

Exactly why it should be an individual choice.

Until the price of gas (energy, really) reflects its indirect costs, global instability and climate change just two among many, then this pseudo-libertarian view is invalid. Tragedy of the commons, etc.

It's not a free market if the commodities being sold are subsidized by the rest of the country (or world's) taxes, sweat, blood, and environment.

 

[paultrafalgar]

Seconded! Amen to that!