Expensive USA EV DC fast charging

[SafeDiscDancing]

:lol:

Research Tesla.

In fact research all the great minds who founded electrical theory and they ALL where of the first option and not the second.

Einstein was "Option Number 2".

The options since ancient Greek times are:

-------------------------------

1) Unity of everything. (Dielectricity and Magnetism being "one" entity)

2) Particles or Atoms.

-------------------------------

But don't simply trust some guy who tells you about history actually go and either confirm it deny it.

I know my stuff.

Tesla was a guy who chose "Option Number 1".

 

[SafeDiscDancing]

And let me throw out some humor here...

Those up on history know about "Logical Positivism" which arrived around 1910 and was inserted into the scientific community as the domininant ideology.

Their premise was that if you cannot measure or quantify something and be able to use math to describe it's behavior (within constrained conditions) then any "metaphysics" of deeper unity should be discarded.

In other words this was a full assault on "Option Number 1" in favor of "Option Number 2".

And this was backed heavily by the biggest donors in the big scientific circles so it did not take long before the entire world of inquiry that existed in the late 1800's was squashed.

Tesla witnessed this in horror.

But he basically simply withdrew to a later life feeding pigeons and going to nice dinners.

The super rich wrecked the world of Tesla but they treated him well because they knew he knew the real stuff.

Dumbing Down then was the standard and now ONLY research that serves rich donors gets funded.

So the history is rather funny how the WRONG ideas were purposely made to dominate.

 

[www.recumbents.com]

Such digression...

Most of us know this already but for those folks that are math challenged:

Electric cars work best when you can charge at home. 99% of the driving done by most people is to go to work or run errands. This is fully within the range of all but the cheesiest of e-cars.

For that 1% of the time you want to go on a trip, yes it will be more expensive to charge. I agree, there is some price gouging going on currently.

 

[SafeDiscDancing]

Electric cars work best when you can charge at home. 99% of the driving done by most people is to go to work or run errands. This is fully within the range of all but the cheesiest of e-cars.

Yes. I agree. It's easier to just have a car for local trips with a smaller battery and less weight and then if you plan a cross country trip just use gasoline.

But gasoline is now near $5 a gallon in my area so even there it's looking like the fast chargers would become economical.

The real purpose of these fast chargers is to enable something you DON'T do very often.

 

[Hillhater]

Sure we are. But those things don't cause climate change, at least not directly and not on the same scale. But they certainly do have some CC and other impacts from extraction, processing and recycling for sure.

Sure the climate is changing, as it always has for billions of years, but dont be so sure CO2 is a major player in that , let alone that anthopogenic CO2 is a critical factor in that !
BUT... if you do believe in that theory, and the drama it generates, then you should recognise that it will take generations before the CO2 generated from the production of Solar panels, wind turbines, batteries, etc etc... is offset by the reductions they may realise by their use.
..... But now we are way off topic !,

 

[Jordan325ic]

Back on topic: Buy a used Chevy Volt. 100% electric for your daily routine, 40mpg for your road trips.

 

[calab]

Why? Why wouldnt a 1L 3cyl gas type electric hybrid to charge onboard batteries be better?
Also couldnt you drive strictly gas and turn electric off?
Why be stuck with 100% electric?

Back on topic: Buy a used Chevy Volt. 100% electric for your daily routine, 40mpg for your road trips.

 

[Jordan325ic]

Why? Why wouldnt a 1L 3cyl gas type electric hybrid to charge onboard batteries be better?
Also couldnt you drive strictly gas and turn electric off?
Why be stuck with 100% electric?

Back on topic: Buy a used Chevy Volt. 100% electric for your daily routine, 40mpg for your road trips.

I don’t understand your response. You’re describing a Chevy volt and so was I.

 

[calab]

Its pretty clear to me, but maybe I'm a bit off today :lol:
I would not want a 100% electric, I would prefer a hybrid gas/electric but thats just me. Then I asked a question because I dont know much.
So there you go.

 

[Hillhater]

Why? Why wouldnt a 1L 3cyl gas type electric hybrid to charge onboard batteries be better?
Also couldnt you drive strictly gas and turn electric off?
Why be stuck with 100% electric?

Back on topic: Buy a used Chevy Volt. 100% electric for your daily routine, 40mpg for your road trips.

I don’t understand your response. You’re describing a Chevy volt and so was I.

But... the Volt uses a 4 cylinder , 1.4 ltr ICE motor !

 

[Chalo]

Why? Why wouldnt a 1L 3cyl gas type electric hybrid to charge onboard batteries be better?
Also couldnt you drive strictly gas and turn electric off?
Why be stuck with 100% electric?

If you can't answer this for yourself, you lack decency.

History will judge those who chose their own immediate convenience over the well-being of the earth and all their fellow people.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

I love safedisc's schizo ramblings. It's like, each time he begins commenting it's like I'm peeling an onion of madness.

OP, Chalo is completely right. Speaking as a person who used to daily have to make a 270-mile cannonball trip across state lines, no way in hell someone with an AARP card is driving 1,000 miles only stopping twice for fuel unless you're pulling trucker tricks or have great aim doing 70. Like he said, you use a tool for a job. You could easily snag an old Leaf as your daily and just rent a car or fly each trip for fun, always having something new to blast around in.

That being said... honestly, I don't understand anything about this post at all. Why buy a new vehicle in the first place? Your Toyota seems to be working fine, and a lot of the carbon cost is already sunk in the vehicles production. Have you driven some PHEVs? Do you know that this is the WORST market to buy in currently, or what options you have or have looked at?

 

[DaLanMan]

You don't have to own an expensive tool to do a job you only do a couple times a year. You wouldn't buy a post hole auger for a one time job, then use it to mix pancake batter just because you own it. That's the kind of reasoning being used by people who think they need 500 mile range. But for this reason the electric cars that are being developed and sold are too much tool for the job of toting one lazy moron to work. They're too heavy, too expensive, too wasteful of finite resources.

Stinking gas cars and trucks can be rented pretty much anywhere when you actually need one for something.

Hey now!

I bought my BMW so I could drive like an asshole and I paid the extra 2k so I do in fact own the whole bloody road!

So there ::sticks out tongue::

I hear people talking about the "realities of multiple vehicle ownership" then they buy a 70k pickup, have shitty credit don't have a down payment and end up paying like 150k for the pleasures of owning it. Few bits of advice. Nurse your old ride through and save your monies, get yer credit fixed and *THEN* get a loan. Until then buy cars for cash and run em til the wheels fall off.

I have a bloody fleet of cars (I am finally down sizing since the neighbors all showed up with pitch forks and torches to nicely ask me to move car #9 away from their house...) I bought almost all of them for cash, My credit is healthy but I have had a car repo'd in the past which lead to me doing repo. Car loans are a frigging scam if they are over 2%.

My entire group of 9 cars has a cost just over 100k, all of them had issues which I worked with a mechanic to get fixed. I never waited til I was in crisis mode to get a car, when I have been in crisis mode.. I used the tennis shoe train til I got over it.

Granted. I am *VERY* much not american. I live here, served in the army here, but was born in Europe and still have a lot of that thinking engrained in my head and heart.

If yo umake 2 trips a year.. Call Enterprise, they are nationwide and you can rent a ride for it for a few hundred bucks... Usually less than a single payment on that Tacoma (I am assuming you bought it new and went with a small down payment, because that is the grand majority of americans)

 

[raylo32]

I just did this run last fall... literally only 1 fuel stop since my new truck tank has 600+ mile range. I carried my own food in a cooler and I never said I didn't also take a few quick pee stops at the road side rest areas. None of those would have been sufficient time to fill my gas tank let alone charge an EV (snore). This is the only way to do such a trip in one day. But you are correct, I don't have an AARP card, even though I am old enough. AARP is nothing but an insurance company masquerading as an advocate for seniors.

I love safedisc's schizo ramblings. It's like, each time he begins commenting it's like I'm peeling an onion of madness.

OP, Chalo is completely right. Speaking as a person who used to daily have to make a 270-mile cannonball trip across state lines, no way in hell someone with an AARP card is driving 1,000 miles only stopping twice for fuel unless you're pulling trucker tricks or have great aim doing 70. Like he said, you use a tool for a job. You could easily snag an old Leaf as your daily and just rent a car or fly each trip for fun, always having something new to blast around in.

That being said... honestly, I don't understand anything about this post at all. Why buy a new vehicle in the first place? Your Toyota seems to be working fine, and a lot of the carbon cost is already sunk in the vehicles production. Have you driven some PHEVs? Do you know that this is the WORST market to buy in currently, or what options you have or have looked at?

 

[raylo32]

No down payments. I pay cash for my vehicles. By NOT taking that low DP route and getting a new car every couple of years when I was young like most Americans and by driving the wheels off the cars (and truck) I didn't waste a lot of $. So, now it doesn't matter. I know there are many who swear that buying used makes financial sense but the math works also fine for new, too, if you keep them. For instance, my Tacoma. I bought it new in November 2008, drove it for 15 years, ~135,000 miles, then sold it in Jan 2023 for 60% of what I originally paid. So, it cost me only $10,000 unadjusted $ to drive for 15 years. Like for free.

Hey now!

I bought my BMW so I could drive like an asshole and I paid the extra 2k so I do in fact own the whole bloody road!

So there ::sticks out tongue::

I hear people talking about the "realities of multiple vehicle ownership" then they buy a 70k pickup, have shitty credit don't have a down payment and end up paying like 150k for the pleasures of owning it. Few bits of advice. Nurse your old ride through and save your monies, get yer credit fixed and *THEN* get a loan. Until then buy cars for cash and run em til the wheels fall off.

I have a bloody fleet of cars (I am finally down sizing since the neighbors all showed up with pitch forks and torches to nicely ask me to move car #9 away from their house...) I bought almost all of them for cash, My credit is healthy but I have had a car repo'd in the past which lead to me doing repo. Car loans are a frigging scam if they are over 2%.

My entire group of 9 cars has a cost just over 100k, all of them had issues which I worked with a mechanic to get fixed. I never waited til I was in crisis mode to get a car, when I have been in crisis mode.. I used the tennis shoe train til I got over it.

Granted. I am *VERY* much not american. I live here, served in the army here, but was born in Europe and still have a lot of that thinking engrained in my head and heart.

If yo umake 2 trips a year.. Call Enterprise, they are nationwide and you can rent a ride for it for a few hundred bucks... Usually less than a single payment on that Tacoma (I am assuming you bought it new and went with a small down payment, because that is the grand majority of americans)

 

[Chalo]

No down payments. I pay cash for my vehicles. By NOT taking that low DP route and getting a new car every couple of years when I was young like most Americans and by driving the wheels off the cars (and truck) I didn't waste a lot of $.

You wasted more money on fuel than your original vehicle purchase price, even given optimistic assumptions that you achieved the EPA rated 22 combined MPG, and that you were able to average $3/gal during that time span. Then there's however many thousands you squandered on gas engine specific maintenance.

So, it cost me only $10,000 unadjusted $ to drive for 15 years. Like for free.

Um, sure. Like for free. Plus $40k or so.

Imagine if you'd used $40k to buy real property in Nov 2008. More than double your money in 15 years, minus taxes and upkeep-- now that is "like for free".

$40k in Nov '08 Apple stock is worth $1.1 million now. But you flushed the cash while also making the world a worse place to live in. Cool.

 

[raylo32]

Just saying it could be a lot worse like many who buy a new car every few years.... and/or buy more expensive luxury vehicles. I didn't waste anything. It was all well within my means and a good value. And "real property" isn't always a great investment. If I had rented a place to live and not bought mine and invested the down payment and savings from monthly payments in the stock market I would have come out way ahead. But dealing with landlords? No.

You wasted more money on fuel than your original vehicle purchase price, even given optimistic assumptions that you achieved the EPA rated 22 combined MPG, and that you were able to average $3/gal during that time span. Then there's however many thousands you squandered on gas engine specific maintenance.



Um, sure. Like for free. Plus $40k or so.

Imagine if you'd used $40k to buy real property in Nov 2008. More than double your money in 15 years, minus taxes and upkeep-- now that is "like for free".

$40k in Nov '08 Apple stock is worth $1.1 million now. But you flushed the cash while also making the world a worse place to live in. Cool.

 

[LewTwo]

Folks, there is one other factor involved: too many people on one small planet. More people with more places to go and more crowded highways and roads to get there. The world's population was an estimated 2.5 billion in 1950. Now it is over three times that and expected to top 8 billion this year.

 

[raylo32]

Except maybe Chalo. He apparently lives eats, works, and plays entirely within range of his bike shop and battery. ;-0

Folks, there is one other factor involved: too many people on one small planet. More people with more places to go and more crowded highways and roads to get there. The world's population was an estimated 2.5 billion in 1950. Now it is over three times that and expected to top 8 billion this year.

 

[Chalo]

Except maybe Chalo. He apparently lives eats, works, and plays entirely within range of his bike shop and battery. ;-0

I feel beleaguered by my 14 miles each way commute. I only accepted it so I could live with my honey while keeping her daughter in the same high school.

But recently I learned the average one way commute in the USA is over 20 miles. It made me wonder why so many people who are incapable of making decisions in their own interest don't decide to end it all instead.

Short of that, it seems to me that refraining from issuing more human pollution is the only ethical way forward. In this I have succeeded so far.

 

[amberwolf]

Except maybe Chalo. He apparently lives eats, works, and plays entirely within range of his bike shop and battery. ;-0

Me, too. My commute is around 5 miles total round trip. Shopping trips are about seven, but if I go there after work it is only a couple of miles added to the commute instead of a completley separate trip.

Since I'm too wierd for other people to want much to do with outside of a couple of internet forums, I don't have to worry about generating excess population.

 

[raylo32]

I lived 3 1/2 miles from my work for 25 years before I retired. Grocery store in between. Smartest decision I ever made. Used very little gas and wasted very minimal time as compared to many in my area who have 1 or 2 hour (or more) commutes each way. My GF's sister, for example, puts about 40,000 miles per year on her car and wastes several hours per day doing it. Unbelievable. But even being that close it was not really suitable for me to commute by cycling e- or pedal. Just no safe way to navigate busy rush hour roads and the sidewalks were too few and far between and too slow.

I feel beleaguered by my 14 miles each way commute. I only accepted it so I could live with my honey while keeping her daughter in the same high school.

But recently I learned the average one way commute in the USA is over 20 miles. It made me wonder why so many people who are incapable of making decisions in their own interest don't decide to end it all instead.

Short of that, it seems to me that refraining from issuing more human pollution is the only ethical way forward. In this I have succeeded so far.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Except maybe Chalo. He apparently lives eats, works, and plays entirely within range of his bike shop and battery. ;-0

Same. Its certainly not for everyone. But it works for me.

 

[DaLanMan]

Ya'all are amateurs...

I lived in Cali (resident address) "Office" in Georgia, (Ft. Benning) and Had to commute something like 2500 miles just to jump out of a plane... (granted, only had 4 hot drops, rest of the time we landed like gentlebeings)..

All of that, and my entire commute cost me no fuel...

Uncle Sam covered all the transit costs...

On a more serious note, as a specialist consultant my commute was anywhere from 30 to 1500 miles to work, so I generally rented a local hotel room unless it was a long term thing, and then I would do Corpo monthlies... My office tended to be within 20 miles of home but I almost never went there... I made the decision early on to go for minimal trust employment. I take cash, and get zero promises of longevity, it worked out for the most part, granted I have worked in the *WORST* commute zone for something like 20 years....

I have driven everything from a hyper modified GT4 qualified race car, to a Rav4, it all depended on what worked better at the moment. Making judgements about how other people prefer to spend their commute time is kind of silly isn't it? I rode a Motorcycle til my first kiddo was born and figured the donorcycle was a bad idea... so of course the race car made perfect sense.

There is a factor that people tend to forget, aside from pure transportation, you should also get whatever enjoyment you can out of your vehicle... be it roller skates or a jet plane, if you love doing it, there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[raylo32]

Poor rookie... in my early career I lived underwater in free lodging and traveled many thousands of miles during patrols on nuclear power, so zero greenhouse gases and infinite MPG. And we even had an ice cream machine.

are amateurs...

I lived in Cali (resident address) "Office" in Georgia, (Ft. Benning) and Had to commute something like 2500 miles just to jump out of a plane... (granted, only had 4 hot drops, rest of the time we landed like gentlebeings)..

All of that, and my entire commute cost me no fuel...

Uncle Sam covered all the transit costs...

On a more serious note, as a specialist consultant my commute was anywhere from 30 to 1500 miles to work, so I generally rented a local hotel room unless it was a long term thing, and then I would do Corpo monthlies... My office tended to be within 20 miles of home but I almost never went there... I made the decision early on to go for minimal trust employment. I take cash, and get zero promises of longevity, it worked out for the most part, granted I have worked in the *WORST* commute zone for something like 20 years....

I have driven everything from a hyper modified GT4 qualified race car, to a Rav4, it all depended on what worked better at the moment. Making judgements about how other people prefer to spend their commute time is kind of silly isn't it? I rode a Motorcycle til my first kiddo was born and figured the donorcycle was a bad idea... so of course the race car made perfect sense.

There is a factor that people tend to forget, aside from pure transportation, you should also get whatever enjoyment you can out of your vehicle... be it roller skates or a jet plane, if you love doing it, there is nothing wrong with it.