Sounds like you might be tripping the BMS current limit during controller precharge. Maybe try adding a pre-charge wire through a resistor?
72 Volt Electra Townie Rocketship
- Thread starter Bone
- Start date
Is that what this is? Check attachments for Picts. It doesn’t matter if this is installed or not. Same results. It says GRIN tech. on it. I tried to contact them about controller replacement but haven’t heard anything back from them and it has been around 4 days.When it comes to e-bike electronics, my experience is close to next to none, but I did used to race R/C cars 30 years ago and had electronic speed controls back then. My cars though were only 7.2 volts instead of 72 volts.
Attachments
lnanek
10 kW
Looks like a shunt (often used for voltage measurement) with pass through throttle and speed wires:
ebikes.ca
You'd use it to connect a Grin CycleAnalyst display to a third party, non-Grin controller.
1mOhm Cycle Analyst Stand Alone Shunt
Precision 1mOhm Stand Alone Shunt with Pigtail Leads and 6-Pin CA-DP Plug. Includes Throttle Pass-Thru
ebikes.ca
You'd use it to connect a Grin CycleAnalyst display to a third party, non-Grin controller.
Best results so far: When the charger is hooked up to the battery and everything is plugged into the eBike, I get the LED power indicator on the controller to be on, the Cycle Analyst to be on, and the motor now studders instead of glitches. It moves the wheel about 6 inches instead of a half of an inch when it was glitching before and it does not cause the BMS or controller to shut everything down like it did before. Now when I put on max throttle, I get the studders on the wheel with nothing shutting down when the charger is connected to the battery. But once when the charger is not connected to the battery, when I apply throttle and get the glitches and studders the system shuts down. Any ideas of what might be happening?
It sounds like you're not providing the controller with appropriate power. The reason could be the BMS which is either malfunctioning or preventing destruction because of a fault elsewhere that's causing a disproportionate load. Check the voltage on the power input to the controller when that happens. Ideally test with another battery. If it works with another battery then you need to dig down what's happening with yours; a smart bms would just tell you, with an uncommunicative one you might have to replace it. Is the battery fully charged?
Yes. The battery is fully charged. It shows 71.3volts on the Cycle Analyst. I have another battery but it is only 48 volts. I plugged it in. The Cycle Analyst says it is 53.6 volts. With the 48 volt battery I do not get shut down when advancing the throttle and the charger does not have to be connected to it. The wheel still does not turn like it should. What does this signify or indicate? (Do I need to program the Cycle Analyst) is why the wheel is not turning? Thanks,
Chalo
100 TW
That's the capacitors in the controller charging up. It sucks but it's normal.
I just replaced the Anderson 45A Powerpoles on my honey's controller and one of her batteries, because she had a sudden inconsistent power failure and I discovered that the negative lead terminals were burned and crusty. If your Andersons look black or cruddy, or the plug housings seem a lil melty or beat up, replace them.
Did. I get around 71 volts when I put a multimeter on the board where the batteries input wires connect to it. The voltage stays the same when the charger is connected to the battery and the throttle is increased. When the charger is not connected to the battery I get around 71 volts again, but when the throttle is applied the voltage gradually goes to zero. The controllers board looks clean and there is no corrosion inside, so I don't believe it got stuck out in the rain. I tried to test the 12 MOSFETS in the controller, but I'm not really sure how to do.
lnanek
10 kW
Reading voltage that quickly disappears after the BMS, at the controller power input, generally means the BMS is blocking discharge. E.g. if it detects unbalanced voltage between p-group's, too much discharge current, low p-group voltage, etc.. it's not a real voltage. Just leakage through the MOSFETs.
Voltage that quickly disappears on the battery before the BMS would be lack of capacity. E.g. if a p-group is dead and doesn't hold much charge.
Voltage that quickly disappears on the battery before the BMS would be lack of capacity. E.g. if a p-group is dead and doesn't hold much charge.
In case of the 71v (what's that, 17s?) battery, it's not giving power to the controller when it needs it. If the controller has a short that could be causing an over current, which subsequently activates the BMS protection. If the controller is good, then the BMS is likely faulty.
On the other battery if it doesn't turn off at full throttle, that likely means the second scenario is more likely. The fact that the motor doesn't turn would be caused by the wrong controller configuration/wrong phase wires assignment or motor positioning failure.
By connecting the other battery (48Volts) to the system and having the same results as the 72 volt battery with the charger connected to it, signify that the problem has been isolated to the controller? It is just that the 72 volt battery may have a more sensitive BMS than the 48 volt battery?
I have tried to contact around 3 or 4 vendors to try and find a replacement controller for the Crystalyte 7240F Controller but have only been contacted back by 1 and it has been quite some time since I have reached out to them. The 1 vendor that got back to me said he only had 1 controller left and it was an 18 FET Crystalyte Controller. The problem is, he said he would only accept PayPal "GIft" (Friends and Family) or Zelle. These two methods are used by scammers because there is no buyer protection going this route.
Is there anything inside the controller that I could test that would tell me why the motor glitches and studders when the throttle is applied?
I have tried to contact around 3 or 4 vendors to try and find a replacement controller for the Crystalyte 7240F Controller but have only been contacted back by 1 and it has been quite some time since I have reached out to them. The 1 vendor that got back to me said he only had 1 controller left and it was an 18 FET Crystalyte Controller. The problem is, he said he would only accept PayPal "GIft" (Friends and Family) or Zelle. These two methods are used by scammers because there is no buyer protection going this route.
Is there anything inside the controller that I could test that would tell me why the motor glitches and studders when the throttle is applied?
Kinda stuck and at a standstill. Anyone able to help? I'm trying to test the MOSFETS in the controller. Not sure if I'm doing this correctly. Am I supposed to have the controller plugged in and the power on when trying to test them? The YouTube video I have been watching doesn't say so. Also the video says the parameters of the MOSFET test should fall within 0.56. What should I have my multimeter set at? 2M or 2k. The readings I have been getting have been around 0.80 on the MOSFETS. Am I doing this correctly? Thanks,
There's no reason to be testing the transistors if the BMS is cutting power. Find out if you're drawing too much and whether the battery is fine first.
How do I do? Everything works good like it should when the battery is plugged into the charger. I get all throttle ranges on the motor without it cutting out, but once the battery is not plugged into the charger, and throttle is applied it looks like the BMS kicks in and shuts everything down. (indicated by the LED's on the battery)
Made other forward progress: The reason why the motor was glitching and stuttering was because the Anderson PowerPole connectors to the motor were melted and not making good contact. The motor sings now.
Chalo
100 TW
Even when the controller's enable circuit is turned off, there are capacitors to juice up, that get discharged by high ohm resistors when voltage is removed. So every time you plug in, there will be a spark (unless you add an anti-spark circuit and use it). The size and violence of the spark is a function of operating voltage, which you have intentionally set high.
Unless you're getting a big enough arc to deposit soot on the plug and your fingers, it's just a characteristic of the controller that will take some technical trickery to circumvent.
slaphappygamer
10 kW
More than likely what I'm going to do. The Andersons going to the motor were melted, that is why it was glitching and stuttering, so I direct soldiered them for now and the motor sings. I'm going to keep it like this for now until I can pin point and fix the problem with the controller or BMS.
Not sure what amp Andersons went to the motor, but they might have only been 30A. I'll more than likely get the 45A ones and also not sure if you know, but some of these Anderson contacts are tin plated and some are silver plated. The ones that end with the prefix G2 are tin plated and the ones that end with G3 are silver plated. I'll more than likely replace them with the best 45A silver contacts.
Not sure if this is the problem why my eBike only works correctly when the battery is plugged into the charger, but I did notice that one of the 100V 470uf capacitors leads pulled out of the capacitor on the controller. I ordered some and they should be here on Thursday.
Chalo
100 TW
The contact resistance for 15A, 30A, and 45A Powerpoles is the same. The difference is only the gauge of wire the crimp is designed to work with.
Not only that, but genuine Anderson Powerpoles are better than generic copies, regardless of the plating material.
I still use 45A Powerpoles on my own bikes for charge plugs, but I've switched to SB50 connectors for battery power and 75A Powerpoles for phase wiring. Even at 22 amps, the little Powerpoles eventually get crusty and hot.
Ended up replacing both of the 100V 470uf capacitors on the controller board because one of the leads pulled out of one of the capacitors. Getting better results than before but still not there. Now, without the charger connected to the battery, I can accelerate the throttle to 80% throttle. But once when I surpass 80% to 100% throttle the controller turns off. Again, when the charger is connected to the battery, everything works like it should and I can accelerate to 100% throttle without the controller turning off. When the charger is not connected to the controller and the controller shuts off when it hits 80% throttle, I can then plug the charger back into the battery and it resets everything and the controller turns on. Any ideas of what the problem might be and how to fix? Thanks,
lnanek
10 kW
Sounds like your controller is attempting to draw too much current and the BMS' over current protection is tripping. Or your pack can't handle that much current, the voltage sags too far, and the BMS or controller's low voltage cut off is being reached.
You probably need to program the controller to have a lower max current draw.
You probably need to program the controller to have a lower max current draw.
The results before was without the Cycle Analyst and shunt hooked up. Now I get completely different results. When I hooked up the Cycle Analyst and shunt to the system, the controller now shuts down at 10% throttle without the charger hooked up to the battery. But when the battery is hooked up to the charger, I can get full 100% throttle. So I removed the shut and Cycle Analyst from the system, and it will not go back to shutting the system down at 80% again, it still shuts down the controller at 10% throttle.
I added the Cycle Analyst to the system to try and program the throttle inputs and outputs. I have never used a Cycle Analyst before so I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong. When I try and put in new values and save, it will not save the new input values. I pressed down on the left button and held until I was able to change different settings. When I got to throttle values I pressed the right button to select different input values. After I got different values that i entered, I pressed down and held on the right button to save values, but it will not save new input values. It goes back to the original values when I press and hold the right button. What am I doing wrong? What values should i be entering into the Cycle Analyst? The battery is 72 Volts. Thanks,
I added the Cycle Analyst to the system to try and program the throttle inputs and outputs. I have never used a Cycle Analyst before so I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong. When I try and put in new values and save, it will not save the new input values. I pressed down on the left button and held until I was able to change different settings. When I got to throttle values I pressed the right button to select different input values. After I got different values that i entered, I pressed down and held on the right button to save values, but it will not save new input values. It goes back to the original values when I press and hold the right button. What am I doing wrong? What values should i be entering into the Cycle Analyst? The battery is 72 Volts. Thanks,
To do this do I use the Cycle Analyst to program the controller? I have been plugging away entering in different values into the Cycle Analyst to try and get different results, but getting the same results no matter what I have been entering. The Cycle Analyst is a little overwelming. What is happening now is, I get full 100% throttle when the charger is plugged into the battery, but when the charger is removed from the battery, I only get to around 75% throttle before the controller shuts down.
Battery: 72 Volt 20 Cells LiPo
Controller: Crystalyte 72 Volt 40 Amp 7240F
Motor: Crystalyte 5304 series
If I'm supposed to use the Cycle Analyst to program the controller, could you tell me what values should I focus on to eliminate the above problem? Thanks,
lnanek
10 kW
Cycle Analyst has no ability to program the controller. Most it could do is be programmed to send the controller less throttle.
That's not really a reliable way to limit the total current the controller tries to draw from the battery, however.
That's not really a reliable way to limit the total current the controller tries to draw from the battery, however.
Ishikawa
10 W
I am surprised no one noticed the battery voltage is too low. 72v battery pack, when fully charged, should show 80-82v. Your battery shows only 71v or so.
You said every thing works fine with charger on. So, my guess is, one or more cells voltage is too low and BMS cuts the power off, but when charger is on, BMS got fooled every cells ok. But, thats if the current draw is low as you run the motor without the load like you are doing with a charger on, not riding on the street. I would run the motor with the charger on and put the brake on to increase the current draw to see what happen. If power get cut off, some of the cells no good or BMS is no good.
You said every thing works fine with charger on. So, my guess is, one or more cells voltage is too low and BMS cuts the power off, but when charger is on, BMS got fooled every cells ok. But, thats if the current draw is low as you run the motor without the load like you are doing with a charger on, not riding on the street. I would run the motor with the charger on and put the brake on to increase the current draw to see what happen. If power get cut off, some of the cells no good or BMS is no good.
