9c clone motor

[Tench]

Recently I have been making some motor axles to repair broken or upgrade hub motors, I have converted some to single sided mounting for a 4 wheel buggy type thing for BigSi on here, he was importing the motors himself from china and I got him to tag one of the 9c clone motors he brings in onto his order for me. I stripped this motor expecting it to have a junk axle that would benefit from being upgraded from day one but was pleasantly surprised, the quality was good!
Which is the reason for this post, I am impressed with this motor!! The axle nuts are M14x1.5mm thread equipped with nice large flanged nuts, the same thread I upgrade the Clyte motors too!

The side plates where sealed with silicone and the bearings are double sealed 2rs bearings with additional oil seals too! the wire channel was also well sealed, this motor could have been oil cooled out of the box! The side plates are also an extremely good fit in the mag ring so rotating them to find the best alignment clyte style is not needed, they where perfectly centralised and the motor runs very true, the side covers are fitted with allen screws, impressed again!

It has a 27mm stator and magnets with a 9x7 wind so it should be similar to the HT3525 or 9C 2807 in terms of Kv which would be ideal for its slightly lower power output than the 35mm motors. The internal wiring connections where crimped twisted and soldered and well insulated. The axle is cross drilled for the cables with a 7mm dia hole that exits on the disc side just out side of the oil seal that runs on the axle outboard of the bearings so no oil seal wire rub issues. I have not found anything to not like about this motor!

Unfortunately the cable had got nipped during shipping so I put in some old phase wires removed from an HS3540 during an upgrade.

Some pics, I will update the thread when I have put the motor to use.

 

[kudos]

Tench,

Do you think this motor is one of these?

http://www.bmsbattery.com/rear-driving/471-cute-12-1000w-hub-motor-for-ebike.html

Kudos

 

[Emoto]

Thanks tech,
Sadly cell man isnt selling his mxus 9c clone anymore can you share the retailer for this motor.

 

[cal3thousand]

Tench,

Do you think this motor is one of these?

http://www.bmsbattery.com/rear-driving/471-cute-12-1000w-hub-motor-for-ebike.html

Kudos

Looks exactly like the Q11 that I have at home. I have yet to lace it and play with it, but it is a similar if not the same motor.

 

[Tench]

I don't know what brand it is, as it is a clone the manufacturer has not put there name on it. I have worked on Xofo motors a lot recently and the axle shares some similarities so there could be a connection there.

Kudos, it is very like the one you linked to, most of the clones I have seen have a radiused edge to the side covers that one and mine are both square edged. I have looked on google images to try and identify it and also seen some that are very similar but with the wire exiting at the end of the axle. This one is better protected with it coming out of the side.

I got the motor from Bigsi on here, he is in the UK and may be better to ask who made it.

 

[bigsi]

Thanks very much Simon. These are great quality and comfortably handle 2kw. I do these delivered for £250 delivered to uk.

Thanks

 

[Kent]

Tench thanks for posting this as it is a reminder-in all this talk about cheap Chinese junk-that good quality with attention to detail is available from China.

I think it would behoove our importers/distributors here in North America to spend more time investigating the construction details on these motors. They could easily command a higher price if they demonstrate, as you have done so well with your photos, the attention to detail.

This motor would make a great 48 volt, 30 mph build.

 

[Tench]

Kent, that was my thinking too, we very often hear about junk and failures but when we find good stuff we should mention that too, it is good to know what is a good buy as well as what is not. I think this motor is better machined, stronger and lighter than the 35xx series Crystalytes and a little less capable so it should be quite robust if it is not electrically abused.
Now if they made this in a 35 or 40mm stator the power hungry really would have something to get excited about! But for most people most of the time this would be a great motor!

Si, can you enquire if a wider stator version is available from your supplier?

 

[stompatompa]

Nice review Tench!

Do you think it would be compatible with this disc brake and calliper? Dropout distance 135mm.

 

[Tench]

If your disc is a 6 bolt fitting and your caliper width is not too great to fit behind it then yes it will fit.

 

[stompatompa]

Thanx bigtime for such a quick and accurate reply!!
Can`t wait to get home and check it! Something in the back of my mind is telling me it`s 5 bolts, but I hope I`m wrong

 

[stompatompa]

The good news is that the back of my mind were totally wrong It's 6 bolts. And the distance to the disc is all clear.

The bad news is the calliper goes in 20mm from the disc, this is at a distance of 75mm from the center of the wheel. Unfortunately can't move it outwards since I got about 2mm between the disc and the frame

Maby the space is bigger 75mm up from center of the hub? Or is the side of it totally straight all the way up?

 

[Tench]

The sides of this motor are just about square, there is certainly no measureable space advantage further out.
There is room to fit a disc spacer to bring the disc out maybe as much as 3mm.

There must be calipers available that will fit.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Simon, Could you do me a big favor and measure the width of the stator lamination stack? I'm curious as to how it measures up to the common 9C clones with the 28mm common wide stator, vs the Crystalyte H35 with its 35mm wide stator (a rough indicator of copper mass).

 

[Tench]

I measured it when it was apart Ron, the stator is a 27mm stack of .5mm lams and the magnets also measure 27mm. The wind is 9x7 so 63 strands same as the HT3525. 5% more than the 12x5 HS3540.

 

[Samd]

Great info!

 

[spinningmagnets]

Thanks, Simon. I think that axle is a huge improvement over the previous 9C axles, perhaps it even allows thicker phase wires than the previous known 9C clones. $99 plus shipping, cheap experiment?

9X7 would be a 7-turn? 370-RPM @ 48V = Kv of 7.7 unloaded?

370-RPM in a:
_______MPH (k/h)
20-inch = 22 (35)
24-inch = 26 (42)
26-inch = 28 (45)

Specification:
Voltage: 48Volts; (It also fits 36V,60V,72V batteries)
Length of wire: 1.5metre
Hall sensor
Power: 1000Watts
RPM:370
Driving: Rear

It is only the bare motor without rim and spokes

 

[Samd]

A quick scan of Aliexpress and I can see a few with the same outer radius and some common dims, but they all quote max speed 480rpm. One vendor shows CONHISMOTOR on the drawing.

Seems about a hundred bucks cheaper than BMSbattery due to cheaper delivery.

Aliexpress Vendor Leili seems very cheap and shows a very similar drawing - but I was let down by him in the past being deceptive when he was selling BBS02 units.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-E-bike-spoke-motor-48Volt-1000W-Brushless-DC-Hub-Motor-48v-1000w-electric-bike/1853545142.html
I'd be reluctant to shop with them again.

My favourite sensorless controller vendor Greentime seems to sell them for almost the cheapest price including postage and there is a lot of feedback -all four or five stars. And greentime have some bargain throttles and controllers so there is a chance to save on postage for controller+throttle+hub I think. Mmmm might be time to drill out the side on one of these and see what makes it fry.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-E-bike-spoke-motor-48Volt-1000W-Brushless-DC-Hub-Motor-for-Rear-Wheel-E/816455891.html

Hmm, hub+throttle+45 amps controller sensored/sensorless with 63volt/15s max power is $208USD delivered to Australia, Might be a nice match for my next custom aluminium job! It does mention that the wind/speed can be customised. Might ask some questions...

 

[Emoto]

Seems about a hundred bucks cheaper than BMSbattery due to cheaper delivery.

My favourite sensorless controller vendor Greentime seems to sell them for almost the cheapest price including postage and there is a lot of feedback -all four or five stars. And greentime have some bargain throttles and controllers so there is a chance to save on postage for controller+throttle+hub I think. Mmmm might be time to drill out the side on one of these and see what makes it fry.

Samd i was quoted 120. usd on shipping to aus from bms battery motor only , so 220 all up.
Thanks for that greentime link id forgotten about them/leo.[ he also does the cromotor clone ]
From what ive read, vented 5kw bursts and the earlier 9c clones have survived.Ive been toying with the idea building the big hit frame i have for sale and one of these clone 9cs vented would be light and fun.

 

[cal3thousand]

Good job on the links Sam.

$240 for a motor, 72V controller and nice throttle delivered in the US. I think this will be my next kit to play around with.

 

[Samd]

I'm assuming it's a torque wind with a lower kV value, it may be a speed wind?
I've asked Leo as I have a long trading history with him, let's see what he says.

As for the controller I picked, 63 volts 45A sounds like a good controller match. 18s would be even better I guess if it is a torque wind as these would fit my 666 watt-hour frames very well. I'm a fan of cheap Bafangs as an annual consumable, but this would give me a nice option for customers who want a turnkey solution if the temp is kept right.

Maybe some room for temp sensors. I wonder if Leo could knock up half a dozen - he customises virtually everything else in his store.

And I could smash out a few laser cut side plates to boot.
It's a sunny winter day - please be tolerant of me e-dreaming in public

 

[windtrader]

As for the controller I picked, 63 volts 45A sounds like a good controller match. 18s would be even better I guess if it is a torque wind as these would fit my 666 watt-hour frames very well. I'm a fan of cheap Bafangs as an annual consumable, but this would give me a nice option for customers who want a turnkey solution if the temp is kept right.

What is the consensus on what power can be delivered continuous with this setup? 60v * 40amps too much? Assume heat is monitored and managed. Thanks

 

[Samd]

I noticed a few threads at 35 amps. It'd be interesting to try with the 45a and a temp sensor, could grind back the shunt a tad if it proves too tempting.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51752#p772984