9c/HS35/X5 Norco 125 DJ 100v project
- Thread starter Andje
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Andje
10 kW
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k did the mod, got everything back together, it seems to work. My freaking ca is still refusing to calibrate properly, but it seems like im stopping in a much shorter distance, and there is resistance when i just barely pull the brake leaver on, before it starts to affect the back brake.
Andje
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regen braking is awesome, even if it gains me nothing at all at least is will subsantialy cut down on the brake pad wear, and it definitely enables me to stop in less distance; id say it probably halves the distance.
in other news i also received my gopro today
i love it! little box of hd fun. I threw a 2gb micro sd card i had in an old cell into the gopro, got about 15 mins of video out of that, there was some other stuff on the card i later discovered but no more then 20 out of 2 gigs maximum. I did a quick canal speed run up to 80 km/w during a lazy ride with the gf. Here is my very first gopro video offering . I lowered the quality to speed youtube upload, the actual video is superbly clear even on a bigscreen.
there is apaprently no sound the way i endcoded it, i will play with that tommorow.
[youtube]HXMV7K-QUps[/youtube]
in other news i also received my gopro today
i love it! little box of hd fun. I threw a 2gb micro sd card i had in an old cell into the gopro, got about 15 mins of video out of that, there was some other stuff on the card i later discovered but no more then 20 out of 2 gigs maximum. I did a quick canal speed run up to 80 km/w during a lazy ride with the gf. Here is my very first gopro video offering . I lowered the quality to speed youtube upload, the actual video is superbly clear even on a bigscreen.there is apaprently no sound the way i endcoded it, i will play with that tommorow.
[youtube]HXMV7K-QUps[/youtube]
Andje
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regen is amazing
i broke down and ordered a hyperion from tppacks... it will solve my battery issues for good so i thought just do it, right?. So i will reconfigure my wiring so that i can charge as 2 12s groups and discharge as 24s. I fiddle enough with it anyway i can manage that much disconnecting if it charges to full. I may even just run each individual 12s group disconnected to my out plug on the backpack, and then configure the connection so that it series's them for discharge when connected. There are 8 andersons there, i can use 4 for each 48v battery if i want, and have two 48v double redudant outputs from my backpack, which will then be turned on individually by the switch and series connected by the bike side connector.
i broke down and ordered a hyperion from tppacks... it will solve my battery issues for good so i thought just do it, right?. So i will reconfigure my wiring so that i can charge as 2 12s groups and discharge as 24s. I fiddle enough with it anyway i can manage that much disconnecting if it charges to full. I may even just run each individual 12s group disconnected to my out plug on the backpack, and then configure the connection so that it series's them for discharge when connected. There are 8 andersons there, i can use 4 for each 48v battery if i want, and have two 48v double redudant outputs from my backpack, which will then be turned on individually by the switch and series connected by the bike side connector.
Andje
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i'm currently on my replacement hs30 that methods kindly provided when i was first in the world to smoke one I just got my hyperion working on sunday and today had the batts almost balanced at 10ah, the final four are balancing now. Should be back to full ah capacity by wednesday, but just getting it back up to 100v was amazing.
I just got my hyperion working on sunday and today had the batts almost balanced at 10ah, the final four are balancing now. Should be back to full ah capacity by wednesday, but just getting it back up to 100v was amazing.
Andje
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So i blew one controller due to a phase wire short caused by the poorly designed hs30 axle groove. Then i got a new one from lyen after a month of waiting fro canada post and then had to wait another day for fets to replace a phase a high side fet that was blown out of the box. Then i beefed my traces, did the r12 mod for regen, replaced halls AGAIN rewired the bike, put it all back together, bought a new throttle and finally, tonight, got it back up to 100 km/h. I turned the phase amps all the way up to 180 and the dc amps to 100 and it held up. I can finally calibrate my shunt too, i will do that tomorrow and get some wattage numbers back from all this.
So happy to be riding again.
So happy to be riding again.
Andje
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and a second hs30 is toast to my need for speed. 100v and 180 phase/100dc was too much for it. Melted some phase wires somewhere. The walk of shame is so much worse with phase shorts...
I guess the 9c goes back on, the controller gets toned down and im in the market for a rewind of one of my hs's with thicker wire so i can run at 100km/h and not burn the frocker.
I guess the 9c goes back on, the controller gets toned down and im in the market for a rewind of one of my hs's with thicker wire so i can run at 100km/h and not burn the frocker.
While you are at it, try enlarging the groove in the shaft and put bigger phase wire.
I run No 8 wires from my controller to as far as I can on my 9C leaving only a couple of cm of original wire and I have no problems.
Of course I can only run 120A phase and I have a 20'' wheel those 2 thing help a lot in preventing over heating.
I drilled the covers and put a fan too. It help. I can sustain 4000w for 30 seconds and I am still able to hold my finger on the stator trough the holes.
This is a 9C
I suppose twice that, is asking a lot.
But I run only 70km/h
I run No 8 wires from my controller to as far as I can on my 9C leaving only a couple of cm of original wire and I have no problems.
Of course I can only run 120A phase and I have a 20'' wheel those 2 thing help a lot in preventing over heating.
I drilled the covers and put a fan too. It help. I can sustain 4000w for 30 seconds and I am still able to hold my finger on the stator trough the holes.
This is a 9C
I suppose twice that, is asking a lot.
But I run only 70km/h
MadRhino
100 GW
If you target that kind of performance on every day basis, you must forget the small Clyte, for its light weight doesn't let it dissipate heat enough. Get a big X5, and sell your HS motors after replacing the phase wires. Many will be perfectly happy with them, they will be reliable when fed a tad more power than the 9C, but not with the kind of power that you like.
Andje
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so i've been in and out of commission using a 9c to get arround. Today i got a second hand x5304. Observations; silent as hell, far more so then the 9c/hs, obviously the angled stator really is a lot better. It took me happily up to 100 km/h, and i wasn't even at 100v .
Ill get some vids tonight when i go test it.
.Ill get some vids tonight when i go test it.
Andje
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looks like it is maxing at about 94 km/h with about 3.5 volts of voltage drop down from 100 v. Im using 70 dc amps and 160 phase with 2.5 block time. That's fast enough; i will have to go to the carling hill and do another 100km/h test with the hill. I have some vids of the testing tonight but they aren't great, the gopro isn't wonderful at night. I heated that motor up pretty good over about 25 mins of hard riding, using 6 volts out of my 100. The controller clearly gets a LOT hotter when doing burst of top speed; by the end of the ride it had actually cooled somewhat from the sprints at the start. The motor was almost at steam temp though; definetly will be doing cooling holes asap and potentially even fans like arlo. It's actually a little slower then the hs30's, and feels a lot less peppy then the 9*7. I really like the silence though. And the axle slot omg, i was SO tired of shitty axle slots.
MadRhino
100 GW
The 5304 will be much better for your performance setup. Mine is very reliable with about the same settings. It does not even have cooling holes, because I ride in the mud and snow when the weather gets bad. Monitor temp to make sure not to fry it, then you can safely feed this motor with alot of watts.
Andje
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what would you say the max temp you've had your's up to is? Also, the heat sink effect is extremely noticeable when it is cooling down; my 9c or hs cooled in under 30 mins usually inside, but this thing is still just as hot as it was when i posted last time.
slayer
1 kW
Cool video thank you for posting it 8) ...i think your right the 5304 is a big heatsink without the fins to cool it down ...
Andje
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well it is a good thing in my case; it takes longer to heat it up and also has much thicker wires so should resist heating a lot better. I just hadn't thought of the fact it would take longer to cool down, but as soon as i touched it and realized the physics all fell into place in my brain.
thanks slayer, it has a good home. A little abusive perhaps, but i will fix what i break
thanks slayer, it has a good home. A little abusive perhaps, but i will fix what i break
Andje
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Andje
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i re-read Karl's this thread just now and saw a lot of people really scared of the lipo backpack. Since i have and use one of the largest around (100v 15ah) i obviously am convinced that the benefits outweigh the problems. I thought I would share my experience in an emergency though; i was returning home from a friends house in the rain. I had just tightened my front disk brake because on the way there the rain had made it just a little sloppy. A car in front of me stopped suddenly and i hit the brake too hard and flipped the bike. To connect my backpack to the bike I use an anderson chassis connector that houses 8 anderson 30's to an umbilical cord that comes up from the bike. This is made of extremely durable plastic, and has never fallen out even when tall people stupidly stand up on the bike when trying it. This latch connector came undone under shock (not by design, but that's what happened), so the bike was immediately un powered as i left the seat. I ended up landing on the back pack with my full weight and the bike just landed next to me. I rolled and got to my feet (the Axio Swift has a great shape for this). The back packs poly carbonate shell took the full impact of me and the lipo, combined weight no more then 170 pounds. In my pack, the lipo is pressed in a one block thick layer that completely stuffs the inner surface area. So the bats are against my spine separated by padding. The pack showed a couple scratches where it rolled on the asphalt, but no damage to anything, i plugged the bike back in and road away.
The incident convinced me that a lot of the scare in lipo is just exaggeration and/or tales from previous chemistry and chargers. It must be respected at all times, but one needn't be afraid of it, merely very conscious of it's power. If you put it in a protected hard shell backpack designed to protect things if you crash, it is no more dangerous then the lipo in your cellphone that you cradle near your genitals day and night. I think Luke (LiveforPhysics) said it best, almost exactly "...I would sleep on a bed of lipo at this stage..."
The incident convinced me that a lot of the scare in lipo is just exaggeration and/or tales from previous chemistry and chargers. It must be respected at all times, but one needn't be afraid of it, merely very conscious of it's power. If you put it in a protected hard shell backpack designed to protect things if you crash, it is no more dangerous then the lipo in your cellphone that you cradle near your genitals day and night. I think Luke (LiveforPhysics) said it best, almost exactly "...I would sleep on a bed of lipo at this stage..."
hydro-one
10 kW
Havent had any problems with three backpacks systems i put together . Cell level monitoring once in a while. bulk charge, pack lvc, very conservative 3.7/cell. treat it with care. I use alot of cardboard and duck tape and foam layers to make a "bomb". put it in the backpack , power cord taped at stress points. Ive landed on mine with slight denting of one corner of one cell. no prob thus far. Well once there was some arcing in the power wire due to short in wire , heard popping and was pretty quick to take off backpack. feels fairly "safe" to me !! (dont plug two packs together see http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31627)
ebike mike
ebike mike
andje, I hope your doing ok. I will take in consideration what happened to you. I will just do my best to secure the backback and have a quick release wire if I get thrown away from the bike. Of course this is my worst fear but I really want to give it a try.
Imagine knocking your head off unconsious over a backpack that catches fire
BTW its the 1st time I see this build thread!! Its amazing I think I am feeling exactly how you felt when you were in the build proccess
AHAHA and going pages by page I see the bike getting more complete and I feel I am almost there... When you wrote I hit 80km/h today
it made me laugh! I cant wait to pass by the 49cc scooters that are infesting my city here and cut in the traffic and parks
I think I have everything I need but looking at peoples thread I see that people using parts that I dont even know what they are for?
like the capacitor? wtf, installing the Shunt... wtf is that? why so many wires? I dont even know where to start ahaha you guys play with volt/amp meters. Meanwell psu.... got me confused too much so I purchased a ajustable VOLT 10-30v psu with ajustable amps 10-80amps with led display ahaha. On top of that I ordered the 550w hyperion chargers because I know how to work with them from RC toys.
too bad most of your pictures has errors in them
btw where are you from?
Imagine knocking your head off unconsious over a backpack that catches fire
BTW its the 1st time I see this build thread!! Its amazing I think I am feeling exactly how you felt when you were in the build proccess
AHAHA and going pages by page I see the bike getting more complete and I feel I am almost there... When you wrote I hit 80km/h today
it made me laugh! I cant wait to pass by the 49cc scooters that are infesting my city here and cut in the traffic and parks
I think I have everything I need but looking at peoples thread I see that people using parts that I dont even know what they are for?
like the capacitor? wtf, installing the Shunt... wtf is that? why so many wires? I dont even know where to start ahaha you guys play with volt/amp meters. Meanwell psu.... got me confused too much so I purchased a ajustable VOLT 10-30v psu with ajustable amps 10-80amps with led display ahaha. On top of that I ordered the 550w hyperion chargers because I know how to work with them from RC toys.
too bad most of your pictures has errors in them
btw where are you from?
Andje
10 kW
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Ottawa Ontario, friend. And yeah, the pics got corrupted a few server upgrades ago. I still have them, maybe ill go through and update them.
Your psu is simply better then a meanwell. I used meanwells to bulk charge at 100v, they output a continuous amperage at a voltage that you can pick, most have a range of 5-10 v up or down. I was aiming to not have to reconfigure any batteries when i charged. Unfortunately over time my batts became more and more out of balance and the 4 battery medics i was using to balance didn't work fast enough.
I eventually broke down and hot the Hyperion so i can charge 12 s. I have this huge westinghouse tripole switch, it is good up to 400v dc; it has three individual channels that are controlled by one large rocker switch. On channel turns power on to the outputs, and another connects/disconnects two seperate 48v 15 ah modules. When the switch is off, i can connect the charger to the modules using two plugs that turn the whole batt into one 48v30ah, which i can then charge on the hyperion. In the end i have one switch for everything,and the hyperion made all the difference. I am still effectively bulk charging but i never see balance problems.
The shunt could be two things. In every controller there will be a physical wire connection that limits the amps provided to the motor. By increasing or decreasing the resistance of this piece (adding wire/solder) you can change how many amps a stock non programmable controller will provide. So lots of people talk of "modifying' their shunt, they just mean wrapping some coper around it and soldering that on. This mod doesn't make any other part of the controller more heat resistant, so be careful.
The other "shunt" is in the CA; there are multiple models, but all of them need to monitor the amps somehow. Depending on your choice/system, the standard plug in CA has an internal one that requires calibrating, the stand-alone CA has an exterior shunt that you physically wire in. It is still just the measurement device either way.
I am fully in favor of the backpack idea; i don't think a crash that would initiate a lipo explosion would be survivable. I would eat a brick of lipo if you managed to live through an accident that triggered a fire and also couldn't take the backpack off and walk away from it. You always run the risk of penetrating you pack with a metal spike or something, but again, very unlikely, and lots of memebrs get away with basically taping the stuff to their bike, or mounting it inside a fiberglass enclosure which is just as easily penetrated in a crash. I still think the stuff is more dangerous when you charge it; even the hyperion could short when you're not looking, fuse open and start providing wall or psu current. Most members who get KFF get it when reconfiguring their pack for charge/discharge.
I just added a 203mm front disk and avid bb7 calipers to my front wheel. The stopping power is greatly increased. I highly reccomend a larger rotor if to anyone who can afford it.
Your psu is simply better then a meanwell. I used meanwells to bulk charge at 100v, they output a continuous amperage at a voltage that you can pick, most have a range of 5-10 v up or down. I was aiming to not have to reconfigure any batteries when i charged. Unfortunately over time my batts became more and more out of balance and the 4 battery medics i was using to balance didn't work fast enough.
I eventually broke down and hot the Hyperion so i can charge 12 s. I have this huge westinghouse tripole switch, it is good up to 400v dc; it has three individual channels that are controlled by one large rocker switch. On channel turns power on to the outputs, and another connects/disconnects two seperate 48v 15 ah modules. When the switch is off, i can connect the charger to the modules using two plugs that turn the whole batt into one 48v30ah, which i can then charge on the hyperion. In the end i have one switch for everything,and the hyperion made all the difference. I am still effectively bulk charging but i never see balance problems.
The shunt could be two things. In every controller there will be a physical wire connection that limits the amps provided to the motor. By increasing or decreasing the resistance of this piece (adding wire/solder) you can change how many amps a stock non programmable controller will provide. So lots of people talk of "modifying' their shunt, they just mean wrapping some coper around it and soldering that on. This mod doesn't make any other part of the controller more heat resistant, so be careful.
The other "shunt" is in the CA; there are multiple models, but all of them need to monitor the amps somehow. Depending on your choice/system, the standard plug in CA has an internal one that requires calibrating, the stand-alone CA has an exterior shunt that you physically wire in. It is still just the measurement device either way.
I am fully in favor of the backpack idea; i don't think a crash that would initiate a lipo explosion would be survivable. I would eat a brick of lipo if you managed to live through an accident that triggered a fire and also couldn't take the backpack off and walk away from it. You always run the risk of penetrating you pack with a metal spike or something, but again, very unlikely, and lots of memebrs get away with basically taping the stuff to their bike, or mounting it inside a fiberglass enclosure which is just as easily penetrated in a crash. I still think the stuff is more dangerous when you charge it; even the hyperion could short when you're not looking, fuse open and start providing wall or psu current. Most members who get KFF get it when reconfiguring their pack for charge/discharge.
I just added a 203mm front disk and avid bb7 calipers to my front wheel. The stopping power is greatly increased. I highly reccomend a larger rotor if to anyone who can afford it.
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