A whole new level of spun axles - what 10KW does to an X5

[Arlo1]

I agree the 9C is a great motor as is the X5 if you operate them within their limits and for sure the X5 is too heavy no denying that methods, however it is a well proven very reliable unit even when operated well above its rated values, it was simply never designed to take 10KW of power neither is the 9C as you have found out, that was all and as you have found out the X5 can produce more power this in no part due to the increase in copper/magnet size hence therefore it's more costly.

10 KW is moped motorbike power and needs a motor to suit, I am sure the new Xlyte will fit your requirements nicely

I ran well over 10kw through my x5 and its fine!
One of Patric's problems is he run his stuff hot!
When you heat a X5 enough the aluminum around the axel expands at a higher rate then the steal in the axel so then the stator spins on the axel as happened to Methods when it was nice and toasty!
He also over heated it many times before it failed and every time would have started to weaken it.
I would say under 10kw with some forced air cooling and tougher dropouts, they are basicly bullit proof, and above 10kw you need to engineer some sort of locking grub screws or something to hold the stator from spining as well as the dropouts need major atention!
In the end I have no problems with my $350 china motor! If I want better I will just build it my self
Although I want to rewind a couple x5's and see what I can do so if anyone has one to spare let me know! :wink:

 

[methods]

make me a 9C that does not buzz... damit.. it's all i ask.

You need a sinusoidal controller bro - that will make the 9C dead silent.

I agree - I hate the noise. Totally destroys the stealth factor when riding where illegal.

-methods

 

[methods]

10 KW is moped motorbike power and needs a motor to suit....

Sure wish I could find a proper 10 KW motor that does not weigh more than 15lbs
A quick look at any industrial motor shows that all are fan cooled.... same logic applies to ebike hubs.... We just need a design that is more fan-friendly.

-methods

 

[grindz145]

Sure wish I could find a proper 10 KW motor that does not weigh more than 15lbs
A quick look at any industrial motor shows that all are fan cooled.... same logic applies to ebike hubs.... We just need a design that is more fan-friendly.

Its pretty safe to say that a fan is going to kill your steathness as well...Lowracer has a pretty sick laminar flow blower cooling setup on his motor though. It's unreal.

 

[knoxie]

Yeah stealth is a big one for me!

Maybe 9C need to tool up and make the 9Cs big brother? he he, they are great motors though Greg in DC has already proved that and I would prob have one over an X5 (if I didnt already have an X5) because of the weight factor more than anything and they are cheap.

I havent taken my trike out in ages!! I find in winter you get soaked!! ha ha

 

[torker]

make me a 9C that does not buzz... damit.. it's all i ask.

You need a sinusoidal controller bro - that will make the 9C dead silent.

I agree - I hate the noise. Totally destroys the stealth factor when riding where illegal.

-methods

So does Crystalyte run a sinusoidal controller?

 

[itselectric]

You need a sinusoidal controller bro - that will make the 9C dead silent.
-methods

Methods:
That is new word that I have google search on.

Can you kindly explain what is sinusoidal controller?
Is infineon not a sinusoidal controller?
Which common controller are sinusoidal?

thanks!

 

[liveforphysics]

You need a sinusoidal controller bro - that will make the 9C dead silent.
-methods

Methods:
That is new word that I have google search on.

Can you kindly explain what is sinusoidal controller?
Is infineon not a sinusoidal controller?
Which common controller are sinusoidal?

thanks!

It's a controller that switches the FETs in an odd looking sequence, to send a funny looking voltage pattern, that when combined with the inductance of the windings in the motor results in the current waveform looking like a beautiful sinewave.

No infinion controllers (and no ebike controller) does this at this time.

Also, Sinus current waveforms are only desirable in a situation where the motors BEMF waveform is sinus. Motors with shared-tooth and split distributed windings (like many hubmotors) often have a trapezoidal BEMF pattern, and are best suited for being driven from a standard trapezoidal waveform controller (like the infinion series, and all other ebike controllers).

The 9c is one of the few hubs that would accept a sinus wave effectively due to it's winding pattern. The crystalite series wants an ugly trap wave.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

(and no ebike controller) does this at this time.

uh-huh...right.

the controller in the silent but deadly polished turd 'wavetrac' motor that has been scootin me around (along with a thousand or so other copies) for over half a decade now is in fact a sinusoidal type.


"that stupid bike with a battery in the front wheel" Eplus goes one better with a full bore SVM controller.


my expectation is that the yet to be released Falco motor will also be sine driven since all three motors were birthed from the same brain of an american ebike pioneer who has continually advanced the state of the ebike art with each iteration.
also take it as a given that the Falco will come with phase advance as standard same as it's two predecessors, along with perhaps a few other new innovations.





so you are wrong on three counts.
(er-ror?...........air...roar..........)
fulfill your programming & initiate self destruct.





beware of grand proclamations from instant experts who haven't been in the ebike field for more than a couple of years.

 

[liveforphysics]

(and no ebike controller) does this at this time.

uh-huh...right.

the controller in the silent but deadly polished turd 'wavetrac' motor has been scootin me around (along with a thousand or so other copies) for over half a decade now is a sinusoidal.


"that stupid bike with a battery in the front wheel" Eplus goes one better with a full bore SVM controller.


my expectation is that the Falco motor will also be sine driven since all three motors were birthed from the same brain of an american ebike pioneer who has continually advanced the state of the ebike art with each iteration.
also take it as a given that the Falco will come with phase advance same as it's two predecessors, along with perhaps a few other new innovations.





so you are wrong on three counts.
(er-ror?...........air...roar..........)
fulfill your programming & initiate self destruct.





beware of grand proclamations from instant experts that haven't been in the ebike field for more than a couple of years.

You owned me. D'oh! Good work though!

I forgot how polished those turds you ride happen to be.

I actually really like everything about that bikes design except the battery capacity, power limit, and battery location. It is perhaps the most refined and well engineered ebike motor/controller in history.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

I actually really like everything about that bikes design except the battery capacity, power limit, and battery location. It is perhaps the most refined and well engineered ebike motor/controller in history.

yeah, it's a real shame they haven't taken their corporation off-shore & continue to stoopidly obey americanz federal law.

 

[liveforphysics]

I actually really like everything about that bikes design except the battery capacity, power limit, and battery location. It is perhaps the most refined and well engineered ebike motor/controller in history.

yeah, it's a real shame they haven't taken their corporation off-shore & continue to stoopidly obey americanz federal law.

lol, yeah, you have an excellent point there as well.
They are doing a damn good job working inside the bounds of the law, and it's respectable that they use NA sourced labor.

I guess overall, they are doing a pretty good job as a north american ebike company. Still a bunch of turd polishers though (I'm just teasin!)

 

[methods]

I am going to start taking my labor to Mexico...

Mexico is the new China - only everybody speaks English, NAFTA is in effect, shipping is cheap, translators are a dime a dozen, I can drive there in 1 day, and if they dont know what the hell it is that they are producing.... they cant sell it to anybody else out the back door.

Oh yea - and everybody is corrupt so it makes business a lot easier. No papers? Oh, allow me to pay my no papers ticket of $50.... thank you sir.

Only worry is those crafty drug lords... don't want them to find out how profitable the ebike business is or they might try and horn in.

-methods

 

[liveforphysics]

I am going to start taking my labor to Mexico...

Mexico is the new China - only everybody speaks English, NAFTA is in effect, shipping is cheap, translators are a dime a dozen, I can drive there in 1 day, and if they dont know what the hell it is that they are producing.... they cant sell it to anybody else out the back door.

Oh yea - and everybody is corrupt so it makes business a lot easier. No papers? Oh, allow me to pay my no papers ticket of $50.... thank you sir.

Only worry is those crafty drug lords... don't want them to find out how profitable the ebike business is or they might try and horn in.

-methods

You know, mexico has a lot of people walking or riding pedal bikes, who can't afford all the BS costs of a car (insurance, reg, fuel, etc).

Might be a huge untapped market for ebikes.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Why is it Mexicans get so much grief from some in the US? The best welder I've ever worked with was a Mexican guy, Joe (well, probably José) who worked his nuts off, all day, every day, welding up really ace airframes from chrome moly tube, to an amazing level of quality. He also contributed to the design a fair bit, even if it was with the odd joke about the number of "bales" we'd be able to fly over the border in the back..................

I can't help but notice that a lot of the semiconductor parts I buy are made in Mexico, so maybe Mexico is the new China.

Jeremy

 

[methods]

Why is it Mexicans get so much grief from some in the US?
Jeremy

Ignorance?
Racism?
Fear?

I grew up in a migrant farming town - I would guess that one reason people get nasty is that Mexicans tend to bring their culture with them and take over large areas - effectively turning them into Mexico - as opposed to assimilating into the American lifestyle. This is fine - but it scares people and makes them angry and resentful watching their environment change.

Just like any unreasonable fear - any one Mexican analysed in isolation proves to be "just like us" but when you think of the entire group of "Mexicans" it is easy to project all your fears and stereotypes.

Age old discrimination - people are just scared of other people that dont look like them, act like them, smell like them, etc.

-methods

 

[liveforphysics]

- people are just scared of other people that dont look like them, act like them, smell like them, etc.

I fear things that smell like me.

 

[ZapPat]

Oh yea - and everybody is corrupt so it makes business a lot easier. No papers? Oh, allow me to pay my no papers ticket of $50.... thank you sir.

Only worry is those crafty drug lords... don't want them to find out how profitable the ebike business is or they might try and horn in.

-methods

Sounds like that would make a good "Weeds" episode! :wink: (I'm in season 4 and catching up...)

Pat

 

[grindz145]

There is a ton of really highly educated people there too, contrary to what I thought beforehand.

I can't help but think of Weeds when I work with a college Guillermo down there...

 

[spinningmagnets]

After spending 42 years of my life living and working in SoCal, I have worked with lots of Mexicans (along with mixed hispanic/latinos, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, etc) and I am quite familiar with every positive and negative stereotype characteristic thats frequently spouted. There is a very deep-seated culture of corruption in Mexico, of course the upside is that if you want anything and you're "willing to pay" you can get anything with no red tape.

Its called "La Mordita", or, a "little bite" as in when an apple is passed down a row of people, everyone gets a little bite of it, before it actually gets to the customer. Someone recently mentioned that he was able to pay his speeding fine to the police officer in cash, right there at the side of the road (*wink*, you know who you are).

Hard working? yes...I could go on, but this is drifting farther and farther away from spun axles!

 

[methods]

Its ok - this is a thread brought back from the dead.

Speaking of spun axles.....

It amazes me how every time I assemble a 9C motor I get interference and have to re-clock the covers a few times to get it perfect. I guess I am spoiled having spent 10 years working with government hardware that is identical part to part... These motors truly are ghetto A lot of eyeballing going on with those stators. I picture a half-drunk guy with a lathe and a large cutting tool just winging it. About every other one is missing a piece or two as well (or has extra pieces) - like the wiggly-washers between the stator and the bearings (thrust washer?). I dont know what they are called.

-methods

 

[NeilP]

Just trawled this thread quickly after having a quick e-mail conversation with methods...and his other 16 page thread on the 100v 100a Controller mods...
Hell i have come in late to this party.

Just ordered a 5405...looks like I should have gone 9C..or are the later X5's better than the one at the start of this thread?

 

[MadRhino]

Clyte doesn't have a reputation of precision manufacturing and quality control, yet that is quite common from Chinese companies. Some production batches are crap, some are better, but all of them need mods to run performance. I have a few of the later X5 motors that have seen 10Kw and hard off road without problems with only bearings and phase wires upgrade, but one that had an axle failure in the first month.

Buying a motor that has a big stator and wider magnets is a good start but don't expect Clyte to deliver a perfect product. Even with the custom specs of a special group order, they can find a way to mess things up. This group buy is a gamble, for none of those Chinese motors are engineered for performance, we abuse them and problems are to be expected with a fair percentage. I have 2 of those X54 coming, one will ride stock for a while and the other will be modded according to the experience with the first one. What we are expecting from this special series, is to better stand high power level for an extended period, because it should shed heat much better with its larger size and weight.

 

[NeilP]

Do we know if they have the cast of pressed stators?

 

[Ypedal]

I prefer the X5 over the 9C motors personally.. if you want to run in that power range.

If the 9C could be made to run dead quiet, it might take first place.. but i hate the buzz..