A123 20AHr Pouch Cell Battery Build & Info Thread

999zip999 said:
I don't you sucessfully solder A123's and see victpower doing it.
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I'll tell you zip, they didn't do a very good job. That battery picture of the Victpower pre made battery looks like it was built by chimps. The positive main feed came right off if I remember correctly. It looks like you gotta weld that stuff. It must be cost cutting to avoid nickel or copper tabs?
otherDoc
 
i doubt if that is the reason. all the li ion cells have aluminum for the anode. it is more likely they use it because there is a closer electrochemical potential between the lithium and the aluminum than lithium and copper. but i have wondered why myself.

we need to get an electron beam welder thread going. build your own for $5k sorta thread.
 
megacycle said:
Thanks Ambro, looks very well embed in there, they about M4 screw.
If it was phenol instead of what looks like a basic thermoplastic, wouldn't have reservations about pulling through a bit and the consequences, it probably works well though.
Has there been issues with it? need to do a search.

Yet Zip I'm a heavy handed butcher of things. I would end up chewing the heads of the set screws :roll:
I'd have to set the torque on the bat drill.
This is I think a partially done Victpower Zip, what you reckon, scary with those 2nd hand C grades.
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I think that battery is from an OSN kit. The Victpower battery didn't have any boards used, at least the one I saw (and now can't find) I believe those boards with the inserts are epoxy/glass circuit board and look fairly well made. This could be a low cost board for those who don't want to spend the money on agniusm's kit. OSN seems also to be making completed packs for not a lot more than the cells and the kit. Might be in the running for my replacement battery.
otherDoc
 
999zip999 said:
I just remember seeing victpower soldering the tabs togethere and soldering the end termenations like the alumiun to coopper wire. As that would stick. I just can't find the photo. I don't know of a solder that would work with alumiun and copper so it worry me. Do I remember as I can't find the photo ?
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Yeah Zip I can't find that photo either. It was a great example of how not to make a battery. I hope they do better in their next try.
otherDoc
 
Wish they were glass fibre
ambroseliao said:
The kit is made of linked plastic pieces with embedded threaded sockets for the brass screws.
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The photo was from Victpower doc when I was getting a quote a few months.
 
megacycle said:
Wish they were glass fibre
ambroseliao said:
The kit is made of linked plastic pieces with embedded threaded sockets for the brass screws.
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The photo was from Victpower doc when I was getting a quote a few months.
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Really? The photo I would like to find is the one where the positive main lead came off of the soldered tab. It really looked terrible. That board you showed looks pretty good.

The epoxy could be the outside case of the yellow and orange OSN batteries but I would hope they used circuit board for the actual battery attachments and slots. This is getting interesting!
otherdoc

Edit" Hey Spacey! Was that your photo?
 
I snagged one of the battery termination kits that ambroseliao purchased and described a couple of pages back from Nancy at OSN Power. I find it well made and would have used the same words he did in describing it. Using his picture, it is the same kit:
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I bought it because my scratch design was 90% similar to theirs in form and function, and it sure saved a lot of work on the milling machine!

What I will add is Nancy from OSN was just a great person to deal with. Her english is 100% and I found her extremely helpful and responsive. Kit came a little over a week from my purchase date. All in all an A++ transaction for me.
 
Ditto for me and working with Nancy!
 
:D Thank you Bigmoose and Ambrose, glad to hear that you like the kit.
All of you are so kind to me, treat me as a friend, more than a salesgirl, which makes me touched deeply.
I know as a sales girl, sometimes I am not very professional, but I am always trying my best to do better.
All in all, very glad to do service for all of you. Anything I can help, just kindly keep me posted, I am always there. :D
 
Late night cheap discharge test. Power inverter and 4s. Could use power inverter and 4sXp also! Clamp method using the bars in the middle of the pic.
 

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Having a closer look at the new OSN kit, the plastic is 5mm thick and the metal bars are 10mm wide. So you would need a minimum of I would say 10mm of tab length to use them. Of course 15mm would be perfect. I plan on folding my full tabbed cells over so that they fit under the bars and not short out to their neighbors. I plan on using 2 Cell-Logs with the pack.
 
bigmoose said:
I snagged one of the battery termination kits that ambroseliao purchased and described a couple of pages back from Nancy at OSN Power. I find it well made and would have used the same words he did in describing it. Using his picture, it is the same kit:
file.php


I bought it because my scratch design was 90% similar to theirs in form and function, and it sure saved a lot of work on the milling machine!

What I will add is Nancy from OSN was just a great person to deal with. Her english is 100% and I found her extremely helpful and responsive. Kit came a little over a week from my purchase date. All in all an A++ transaction for me.
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Hey Bigmoose!
Those inserts solve an important problem for me. I don't have to keep my hand underneath and in betwee 2 cells to hold an aluminum block. Assembly can be done from the top. Very cool design. I think I will go this way.
otherDoc
 
999zip999 said:
Docjoj where are you going to get your cells as The prices and quaitly are all over the place.
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Yeah zip I have noticed that. At this point I will get bids from the major dealers and decide. I have only worked with full tab cells and would prefer to stay with them, although the short tabs are possible to use in either OSN or agniusm's kit. Honestly for my wifes trike Headways would be the easiest but most expensive and short tabs the least costly and full tabs in between. Price do seem to vary daily though. Decicions, decisions!
 
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It just occurred to me that i could assemble 3p packs with these if I cut plates that covered a row of (6) tabs, and drilled them to fit the terminal screws. A thinner matching plate, instead slotted to let the tabs pass through, could fit underneath, sandwiching the tabs between the plates. The plates would be in contact with the full surface area of both sides of the tab, plenty to support the rated discharge - probably even with short tabs. If the sandwich is sufficient to pull rated discharge from short tabs, it opens whole new ways to remanufacture the 28s3p/7s3p packs, and could be sized to parallel any number of cells just by making the plates longer.

Somebody probably suggested this already and I lost track of it, apologies if it is a repost. Nancy/April, do you offer anything that allows us to parallel cells using your plastic strips?
 
That is exactly my plan as well. These are really setup very nicely.
 
Looks quite similar to what I had in mind for the EIG cells, however they are a bit different to the A123 cells in that their tabs are verymuch off-set. Looking at a cell side on, the tabs look like the letter L, rather than an upside-down T. This means you can't flip them around to alternate the polarity. I guess that's why they used the diagonal terminations.

Troy, let us know how your 3P build goes!
 
Will Do, I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to get everything mounted in the frame and still provide some type of stressed member, but I'm leaning toward the A123 cells for longevity sake, since I plan to put serious miles/Ks on. I should be putting an order in within a couple of weeks.
 
oatnet said:
assemble 3p packs
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It could be done quite easily with some copper foil that is roughly the same width and thickness as the tabs running under the plates just as the tabs normally would. Cut to length with scissors. No drilling or machining.
 
what would be the price for these connector boards for 16 cells in series?
 
Does any one know what material those ONS boards are made off? Some people might encounter problems depending on plastic used. If it's PP, PETG, PE or similar, melting temp is around 100C which means it softens at even lower temp. When it does it might slacken the compression. For high current users i would suggest asking second set of those metal bars to clamp tabs in between two metal plates rather than plastic and metal. Just a thought :)
 
That a brilliant engineering fix Agniusm, plate behind would hold the tabs together even though the plastic soften 8)
Might just need slightly longer set screws for that set up.
 
agniusm said:
Does any one know what material those ONS boards are made off? Some people might encounter problems depending on plastic used. If it's PP, PETG, PE or similar, melting temp is around 100C which means it softens at even lower temp. When it does it might slacken the compression. For high current users i would suggest asking second set of those metal bars to clamp tabs in between two metal plates rather than plastic and metal. Just a thought :)
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i agree with using two pieces of metal to clamp the tabs together between them. someone should ask nancy or april if they can sell an extra set of those metal bars with each kit. or make you own.
 
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