All things must end: The life and DEATH of an electric trike

MikeFairbanks

100 kW
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,385
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
This is a story worth telling (Note to riders: Always wear a helmet and watch your speed).
As many of you know, I started coming on this website a year or so ago (I don't know when I signed up...probably in my profile) looking to learn about electric bikes and trikes.

I applied for a grant with our local utility company to build an electric bicycle with my students. Suprisingly, we won the grant.

Then came a lot of research, mostly through this website. In the end, after considerable help and advice from you fine folks, I decided to use the 1500-dollar grant to purchase a high-quality, American-made tricycle from Worksman Industrial Bicycles and an e-bike kit from Ebikekit.com.

All was well.

Through much learning and work, my fourth (and a couple fifth) grade students assembled the tricycle, the ebike kit, and put it all together. The end result was a very smooth and fun-riding electric tricycle.

I rode it around town, around the neighborhood, to the store and back, and even to work and back several times. It was a lot of fun. At slow speeds it was very stable and had literally a zero turning radius (it could turn in circles in its own footprint).

It could haul three hundred pounds on the back platform, and cruised at a steady 20mph with the 9-Continent front-mounted motor and 36-volt SLA battery pack run through a 22amp controller.

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Cool basket on the back.

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Ebikekit.com bike kit

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So things were going well. Lots of rides with friends, neighbors, the kids. I let anyone try it who wanted, and everyone digs it (er, dug it). Even yesterday there was a teenager laughing at me as I rode by, so I turned around and said, "hey, you won't be laughing once you ride it." He said he wasn't laughing at me, and I replied in a friendly manner, "yes, you were, and now you have to try it."

Sure enough, after riding it he had a huge grin on his face, and then his girlfriend tried it and liked it.

What a great tricycle.

But a tricycle is not a bike (in so many ways). Some of those ways are good (trikes can ride slowly, can stay upright when parked, can haul heavy loads, and are really easy to learn on. The disadvantage, however is a major one: TRIKES DON'T LIKE HIGH SPEED TURNS.

I learned this today the hard way (when I say hard, I mean hard...a 60-year old pinetree isn't very soft, even though pine is called a soft wood).

Today I met up with (again) Chris Parham (IceCube57 on this site). He has a killer ride. Two-wheeler with 66v LIpo on a 9-continent rear-mounted wheel. He parked in town and rode to my house to meet up. I tried his bike around the block, and it's fast and strong. NICE. I didn't realize the same motor I had on the trike (there's that word had, as in past tense) is the same as his motor kit. Very cool.

So, after we chatted a bit we went for a ride. We went up the big hill, down another big hill, around several twists and turns in our bike path system, until after about two miles we came to the lake. We rode around the east side of the lake (with a breeze coming off of it that was fantastic) and rode to the end of the lake, checked out the local BMX track and amphitheater, and then rode back toward town on the west side of the lake. We went up and down hills, around corners, and all over.

Then, very close to the end of the ride (actually about 200 yards from where Chris was parked), I took a turn too quickly, and the path not only turned sharply but had a tilt in it that was not favorable for my circumstances. I was going too fast and it was all my fault. I tried to make the turn, but the trike started tilting. If I would have continued that sharp turn at a high speed, I would have been thrown from the bike (and, no...sorry...I wasn't wearing a helmet).

So I tried to correct, but that was worse and the trike lost stability the other way. All this happened in a split second, and so I straightened out, knowing I was going to hit a tree head on.

For a second I thought I was going to get really hurt. That's what killed Sonny Bono when he skied into a tree. I was probably going about 15mph.

Well, sure enough, the tree wouldn't get out of the way, so I hit it straight on.

When the dust settled (and all the people in the little park were staring at me--the wreck was noisy), I got off the trike, staggered a few steps to the side, and look upon my own body.

I didn't get hurt. I have a tiny knuckle scrape and a tiny scrape on my knee, but that was it. The trike took about 99% of the impact.

And here are your results:

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So, I called my wife (somehow Chris avoided the crash) and she came to pick me up in the minivan. Chris and I shook hands and I told him it was a nice ride. He had to head home to work anyway, so I took the trike in the van and drove home. I probably should have let my wife drive as I was a bit shaken up and almost got in a wreck with the car. Geesh.

So, now that I'm back home and feeling fine, I am going to get a new front fork for the trike, and take the entire motor kit off it for good. The trike will be a permanent utility vehicle at our school for hauling heavy loads throughout the building (it works perfectly for that), and it doesn't need the electric motor in the building because pedal power works just fine on those very smooth and flat floors. Plus, the potential of going 20mph in a school hallway is a bad idea.

I'm also convinced that electric tricycles are not ideal. They are great if the area is flat (my area is not flat where I ride to work and back), smooth (our is a little smooth) and few turns (my area has a ton of twists and turns).

I learned that an electric tricycle can easily lose control in a split second. Sure, any bike can, but with a trike you are left with no options when a sharp turn comes up and you haven't slowed down enough. A bike can dodge and make the turn. A trike cannot. Also, if something were to run in front of you, a quick change in direction on a bike is easy, but on a trike it will tip and throw the rider.

The tree was in the way, and I couldn't dodge it. The accident was entirely my fault, but on a bike I would have been able to get around it.

The ride has sadly come to an end.

From now on I ride two-wheelers. The trike, at slow pedaling speed, will be fine in the school. Perfectly safe. But at 20mph it was an accident waiting to happen. That's my story.
 
hi sir,

the fork need extra heavy duty design,. Those are very common fork might be not build for ebikes. I saw alot ebikes China builds ones at my friend shop. I can say all of the ebike fork are really heavy duty ones. thick and is fully suspension ones. Building a best ebike at your home, needs alot of test run at least 1000km , to find out where is the fault lies. Is it at the throttle, chain, gear, brakes is it working well. Seriously it really needs alot of testing example of 1000km to find out more on its reliablity.. any problems still can solve it.

kent.
 
Yup, all trikes handle terribly and when you add an electric motor into the mix, things get even worse.

Now, tadpole trikes on the other hand. Those are just fun as hell. Those handle freaking amazing, you can even do drifts..
Glad you didn't get hurt.
 
Yep, just glad you didn't get hurt. The main reason I love motorcycle and bicycles is, because they are more stable when moving.
8) 8) 8)
 
Wow, that sucks. Glad you weren't hurt though. And major props to that wheel...looks like it came out unscathed.
 
It's good that the fork broke absorbing the impact. Forks are cheap.

Don't discount trikes... that would be like saying all Bikes are bad because one bike isn't engineered very well. That particular bike isn't designed for handling and aggressive riding. Look at Tadpole trikes, and from a high end manufacturer like ICE or HP Velotechnik. It's all about finding the right vehicle for the application. You wouldn't take a Honda Civic on an off road path that was more suited to a Jeep Wrangler, thus you need to find a model of trike that works for this type of riding.

Cool pictures though, and I'm glad that nobody got hurt.
 
images


I don't want to sound critical, I love the build-log you posted (and I'm very glad you didn't get hurt!). But,... you may be throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.

Above is a pic worksman tadpole cargo-bike. A tadpole is less tipping-prone in a downhill curve than a Delta-trike. If you had better brakes you might have still steered towards the tree...but then stopped in time. If you had limited the bike to 15-MPH (or even 10-MPH) you might have made the curve without any problems using the current set-up.

An UN-powered trike can also get up to 20-MPH on a downhill..with the same results you encountered.

Volvo's are VERY safe cars, and yet they still occasionally find themselves in car accidents. I'm glad the school will still get some use out of the trike, and yet the high visibility of this project (in the school and the community) may mean that dumping the project completely will send the wrong message.

If a pedal bike gets into a crash at 30-MPH, its "bad judgement", but if a powered bike gets into a 20-MPH crash...its the motors fault?

edit, the worksman cargo trike in the above pic has an affordable central-pivot under the box (both wheels on a solid axle), which is less stable than a tadpole with each front wheel individually turning (like a cars front wheels). Heres an example of the most stable type of upright tadpole:
http://pedal-trikes.blogspot.com/2009/08/tadpoles.html
DSC04081+%5B1024x768%5D.JPG
 
Glad to hear you were'nt seriously hurt. But I think it's wise that you are turning it into a non-electric ride. I'm sure you're realising by now that if it had been anybody else, especially one of the kids, it would have been a terrible situation. Unfortunatley, the way it seems to work in life, is that everything is just fine, until something bad happens ... Then mouths start waggaling and the fingers start pointing! In the meantime, I really enjoyed reading your posts, and the adventure of building your project that you brought to life in your posts. I'll just bet that you now have the "ebike fever", and that this just isn't finished for you. Are you "hooked" yet???

Gary
 
. :D Sounds like a case of "Ambition exceeding Ability" .. :lol:
You just need to learn to shift your weight..hang off the saddle like the skidoo racers do ! :eek:

PS.. there is a good reason the Feds banned those 3 wheel ATV's back in the 80's ! :wink:
 
Good to hear your OK MikeFairbanks ... delta trikes at sped can be dangerous as you have found out.
I'm glad though it wasn't a student and the trike will still be used for something even if not powered.

Hillhater said:
. :D Sounds like a case of "Ambition exceeding Ability" .. :lol:
You just need to learn to shift your weight..hang off the saddle like the skidoo racers do ! :eek:

PS.. there is a good reason the Feds banned those 3 wheel ATV's back in the 80's ! :wink:


I couldn't believe Casey said that to a 8 times world champion :shock: ....then again... if the shoe fits :lol:

KiM
 
Here's the weird thing: I took everything apart, and it seems that the only thing wrong with the trike is that fork. It's hard to believe, but I think the entire impact was absorbed by that bent (and torn) fork. When I got home I bent it one way, and then another (one full bend) and it snapped clean off. Unbelievable.

Then I rolled the wheel (with hub motor attached) down the hill, and it seemed to roll smoothly. I think it's still true, but I'll take it in to the local bike shop for a real truing.

The entire assembly is going to my two-wheeler. I don't like the SLA battery. It weighs more or less the same as a bear, and would throw the bike off balance.

I'll probably save up for some LIpos. Money is tight right now (long-term sick kid....which sucks....so no Dad toys). But I'll figure out a way. We guys always figure out a way to buy stuff we want (but probably don't need).

Last thing: I was out on the front porch, having a drink with my wife this evening, and the rocking chair broke, collapsed, and took me for another spill. Again, only the chair was hurt, but now I'm thinking about things coming in threes.

Shoot!!!
 
Good to hear.
I am truly glad you are OK and the only damage was done to the bike. Remember this?

MikeFairbanks said:
...., I've already decided to go with an adult-sized tricycle for many reasons:

1. stability. I don't need good handling in corners.

You forgot to say "touch wood". And then hit a tree. :eek:

You were were told many times these trikes were "tilty". The E-Sphere was right again.
Good luck with the modifications.
 
Gregory said:
Good to hear.
I am truly glad you are OK and the only damage was done to the bike. Remember this?

MikeFairbanks said:
...., I've already decided to go with an adult-sized tricycle for many reasons:

1. stability. I don't need good handling in corners.

You forgot to say "touch wood". And then hit a tree. :eek:

You were were told many times these trikes were "tilty". The E-Sphere was right again.
Good luck with the modifications.


Yeah, well, if there's a thing or two I've learned over the years it's that I am full of crap. I've always been full of crap, but for the 42 years of my life I was only aware of this fact for the last three years, and even then I forget a lot.

If I had a dollar for every time I said, "I always this, or never that," and went and done it, I'd be rich.

What happened today was that I was having so much fun through the twists and turns of the cart path system we have, that I simply took my eye off the ball for one second. That's all it took, and I lost control.

I was going about as fast as I could handle, and having a great time. Something went wrong, and it happened so fast that I have very little memory of the incident. All I remember was that I was cruising along at a good clip, having fun, and the next moment I couldn't bring the trike under control and chose to hit the tree. I positioned my body for going slightly off center of the tree, so that I wouldn't get killed by hitting it dead-on.

The bike hit it dead on, not me.

But in all truth, I might be 180 degrees off of what really happened. IceCube57 (Chris) was riding behind me, and he probably has a much more accurate version of how events played out.
 
mikefairbanks said:
Last thing: I was out on the front porch, having a drink with my wife, and the rocking chair broke, collapsed, and took me for another spill. Again, only the chair was hurt, but now I'm thinking about things coming in threes.

That made me laugh (soz) what a day you had hey! thankfully again no injury! I would be thinking about wrapping myself in cotton wool for the next few days Mike HAHA... All the best mate ;)

Hillhater said:
:lol: Ha, i thought someone would pick up on that one ! ..
Casey should have warned the Doc about the Duc's bad habits ! :lol:
good race though Eh, Kim ?

HAHA yes...rain is a great equalizer in motorsport. I wonder how the riders that placed
behind Rossi must feel though? I mean seriously :lol: Vale falls off and still finishes 5th
after resuming the race in last position :shock: Time to retire or go to World Superbike
for alot of the riders i think? LoL..

KiM
 
MikeFairbanks said:
Gregory said:
Good to hear.
I am truly glad you are OK and the only damage was done to the bike. Remember this?

MikeFairbanks said:
...., I've already decided to go with an adult-sized tricycle for many reasons:

1. stability. I don't need good handling in corners.

You forgot to say "touch wood". And then hit a tree. :eek:

You were were told many times these trikes were "tilty". The E-Sphere was right again.
Good luck with the modifications.


Yeah, well, if there's a thing or two I've learned over the years it's that I am full of crap. I've always been full of crap, but for the 42 years of my life I was only aware of this fact for the last three years, and even then I forget a lot.

If I had a dollar for every time I said, "I always this, or never that," and went and done it, I'd be rich.

What happened today was that I was having so much fun through the twists and turns of the cart path system we have, that I simply took my eye off the ball for one second. That's all it took, and I lost control.

I was going about as fast as I could handle, and having a great time. Something went wrong, and it happened so fast that I have very little memory of the incident. All I remember was that I was cruising along at a good clip, having fun, and the next moment I couldn't bring the trike under control and chose to hit the tree. I positioned my body for going slightly off center of the tree, so that I wouldn't get killed by hitting it dead-on.

The bike hit it dead on, not me.

But in all truth, I might be 180 degrees off of what really happened. IceCube57 (Chris) was riding behind me, and he probably has a much more accurate version of how events played out.

Holy Cow!

I must say I have huge respect for you to respond so well to a corrective (negative?) comment. :)
That is evidence of being a truly teachable person. Props to you for that.

+1 on tadpoles. I have two of them and absolutely love them! One of my trike corners so hard, I have to really hang on to keep from scooting off the seat, yet it does not tip. Also, yes, as mentioned earlier, a low tadpole can be drifted very well indeed. :)

I am looking forward to seeing what you build with the parts.

Matt
 
Thanks for the kind words, Matt.

I'm looking forward to hearing Chris's (Ice Cube 57) version of the story. For all I know I might have been looking at a cute mom in the park when I hit a tree. I love a good story, but everyone always has different versions.

There was a hot mom (grandmom?), however, that asked me several times if I was alright, and that caught my attention.

I was just glad that I was okay and that I had another story to tell. You never know when these stories might prove to be useful, and the true ones are the best, because you know they are accurate (mostly) and can tell them with a straight face, thus, gaining admiration.

Everyone loves a great story.

My biggest regret about the incident is that I couldn't find, as hard as I tried, a scar on the tree.

Damn tree!
 
Oh, Man, I was on my first hot-rod tadpole doing some drifting (showing off) to a friend. I was in the middle of a serious total steering lock 18kw drift when I go off the throttle. The rear tire promptly hooked and pitched me off the side! Talk about embarrassing! I also wheelied over backward on my BMX bike right in front of someone who I had just told about the bike.

I am a goon sometimes. :)

But, hey, if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger! Right? :mrgreen:

Matt
 
Just think, if you'd been wearing a helmet you probably could have taken the impact on your head and saved the trike any damage at all!! :)

Send the workman company an email with pics they might give you a discount on the replacement fork(or even give it for free).

With more practice you might have been able to take that turn on 2 wheels and leaning.
Any Trike that has SLA needs to position them to take advantage of their weight; right next to the wheels on both sides UNDER the bike as close to the ground as possible.


Now here is something to consider. Why are QUADS not legal in most places? As you just learned trikes are unstable in high speed turns, but Trikes are legal as bikes but Quads aren't! So what is the logic behind that??? Simple, electric quads are a VERY PRACTICAL replacement for cars, and the fix is in.

Glad you only got a scratch.

Tadpoles need a seatbelt.
 
The tree always win, unless it's a very small baby tree. :(

Welcome in the Tree Huggers Club. Lucky you! Didn't cost you too much to be admitted, my first tree broke a clavicle. :mrgreen: They retaliate harder when you hit them on two wheels. :twisted:

Look like your trike can be fixed for cheap too! A crash with no broken bones, is a good experience. :wink:
 
Lessss said:
Send the workman company an email with pics they might give you a discount on the replacement fork(or even give it for free).
.
+1 on that suggestion.
HINT:- If you word it carefully to imply that the fork may have contributed to the accident, ..you could score a very cheap replacement :wink:

PS ..photoshop out the electric parts first ! :eek: :lol:
 
amazing! Glad to still be chating with you still. I agree about 3's but you are on a roll and all bets are on you. Another reconsider tadpole trikes! I've been riding a catrike for 6 years 1 plus years electrified. If you had a good tadpole trike those manuvers would have been simple. When I finally placed the batteries on the chainstays, the CG improved to better than new. Properly set up a tadpole trike handles like a go-cart. You were asking your delta trike what should only be asked of a tadpole. Like asking a mule to run like a Tennasee Walker. From what i've read there are some high tech deltas that have good stability. Don't give up on trikes.
 
MIKE glad that you are not hurt, but don't give up on trikes. I have built (2) MERIDIAN TRIKES 1 for me and 1 for my wife both are electric. on the very frist ride out with my wife, we were about 500 feet from the house after a 10 mile cruise and we were on the sidewalk where it's hilly on sides and I heard a loud crash sound behind me and as I looked back my wife was up-side down with her trike. I will never know for sure just what she did but at 5mph. she turned over and broke her left wrist and had to have a (y) plate put in it. she didnot give up. after that I re-worked both trikes and got ths center of gravity down low where our seats are only 26in. from the ground. this helped with stability and we have been riding happily ever since. we use the trikes for most of our shopping trips and this has been very usefull and save on gas for the cars. trikes can be safe to ride but you have to be alert at all times just like driving a car, I am 67yrs old and have never even bumped another car but that doesen't mean it won't happen but by being alert at all time it will lessen the chances. GOOD DAY MIKE. :) :) :)
 
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