AmpedBikes.com to sell a small geared hub motor
- Thread starter Russell
- Start date
Awe man... I just got my hub motor up and running from them. It's great, but 1/2 the weight, quieter, and freewheeling for only 40 bucks more would have been totally worth it. I guess I don't know how much know-how one would want to have to be able to maintain a geared motor though...
TPA
10 kW
does he have a timeline for release?
Edit: After reading that forum, it looks like late June or early July.
I'm There when he gets them. 8)
Edit: After reading that forum, it looks like late June or early July.
I'm There when he gets them. 8)
cloudhands
1 mW
He's knocking the BMC motors on his site, but I haven't found any particularly bad comments on the BMC motors. Overvolting them seems to be hard on the gears, but otherwise no problems I've seen in all my searching. Are there problems with the BMC? That's my current plan, with a 36v Ping.
Muad'dib
10 W
I'd like to know what kind of gears they will have. The BMCs now have some kind of new composite gears that are supposed to last longer, but according to Reid, we are back in the stone ages of gears compared to the 1920s, a lot of the genius of those times has been lost with the manufacturing shift to China. I just bought a BMC, and my research turned up pretty much all positives. High price is the only negative I can think of.
snowranger
10 kW
So far in almost 2000 miles of commuting, the white nylon gears have been the only weak point in the 400 watt version. If a hall sensor fails, those may be a pain to change out, as they are epoxied to the windings.
Russell
1 MW
cloudhands said:
Nor have I, but he also calls Bafangs "screamers" though mine isn't noisy. Some competitor bashing is expected but if the motor he's offering lives up to the speed he mentioned (22.5 mph at 36V) with a kit price of $460 and optional disc brakes for front and rear motors then it's an attractive deal compared to the BMC V1-400W and eZee motors.
Something that's also attractive is the eZee motor/wheel which I found can be purchased here all by itself for $395.
http://nycewheels.com/ezee-parts.html
Add an E-crazyman or Infineon controller and the throttle of your choice and you can save a couple hundred bucks over the price of an eZee kit sans battery.
-R
TPA
10 kW
Bump for update!
Site is currently being updated with the new motor, front and rear.
No sign of the frame battery box yet though.
The kits are on sale $330 fronts and $340 rears.
Site is currently being updated with the new motor, front and rear.
No sign of the frame battery box yet though.
The kits are on sale $330 fronts and $340 rears.
1800vtx
100 W
TPA said:
He's posted a pic of the front wheel setup http://ampedbikes.com/frontgearkit.jpg
Nothing yet on the rear wheel.
Sure be nice to know what the torque rating is on these new geared motors?
Very stealthy lookin, slap a disk brake on it, you'd hardly know its there. 8)
will_newton
1 kW
I sent him an e-mail. In the forum posts, he describes some literal dropout twisting torque on 72V! I wonder if that's on his 48v 22a controller? 
1800vtx
100 W
will_newton said:I sent him an e-mail. In the forum posts, he describes some literal dropout twisting torque on 72V! I wonder if that's on his 48v 22a controller?
Nice to know he's already 'overvolting' the motor. Wonder how sturdy a unit it's going to be?
oatnet
1 MW
Has anyone actually purchased and tested this geared hubmotor?
It looks like he same form factor as an 8fun/bafang, but if it is totally silent and twisting dropouts I would be interested, albeit with a healthy dose of skeptecism. I was tracking it for a while, and I see it is available on the website, but when I search for ampedbikes now all I am seeing is commentary on business practices.
-JD
It looks like he same form factor as an 8fun/bafang, but if it is totally silent and twisting dropouts I would be interested, albeit with a healthy dose of skeptecism. I was tracking it for a while, and I see it is available on the website, but when I search for ampedbikes now all I am seeing is commentary on business practices.
-JD
Russell
1 MW
This guy put together a nice bike using one of them;
http://www.ampedbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=937&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
-R
http://www.ampedbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=937&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
-R
oatnet
1 MW
Russell said:
Nice thread, hope he adds some performance perception and data to it...
-JD
mwkeefer
1 MW
Hey all,
So anyone with a final perspective on the quality and performance of one of these geared brushless hub motors? Are the gears composite, nylon or other?
Personally I don't care what the gears are made of if they can withstand the abuse (ie: not nylon), and would love to see a hub with real gears and ... dare I say it, maybe even an oil bath?
-Mike
So anyone with a final perspective on the quality and performance of one of these geared brushless hub motors? Are the gears composite, nylon or other?
Personally I don't care what the gears are made of if they can withstand the abuse (ie: not nylon), and would love to see a hub with real gears and ... dare I say it, maybe even an oil bath?
-Mike
Russell
1 MW
I think the whole gear "problem" is overblown and was started by folks who simply ran far too much power into little motors. Here are the gears from my Bafang after 3,000 miles, two-thirds of which was at 48V/15A, and they look great.
Unfortunately the motor did die due to a hall sensor failure.
-R
Unfortunately the motor did die due to a hall sensor failure.
-R
oatnet
1 MW
Russell said:
That's what we're here for!
:lol: :lol: -JD
mwkeefer
1 MW
Yes they were overpowered sometimes.... but then again somtimes it was to cope with steep, long hills and or get up to 20-25mph ... nothing too much to ask from a well purpose engineered hub.
48v * 15A (partially) = 570w which again was somtimes or half the time... that's maximum, in the US we are allowed 750 watts nominal (not peak) and a top speed of 20mph.
really... to be smart... factor the rolling resistance of tire you intend... factor the loss in watts and supplement the 750 (when neded) but that's for nominal rating, you can also count on a few volts more for more watts.
This should all run fine, no problems and no burnt gears but not with NYLON @ 600 - 750w nominal and with gearing. I could be mistaken (probably) but a well designed outrunner/inrunner with a kv of 95 or so under load, with a 7:1 reduction would give you 3420 RPM (more torque/power through higher RPM) / 7 (reduction) for a streetable RPM of 488.57 or 29mph no load.
Load would give about 22-25mph.
I just think it's a matter of vendors selling motors designed for use abroad where the laws are much tighter with lower limits.
-Mike
48v * 15A (partially) = 570w which again was somtimes or half the time... that's maximum, in the US we are allowed 750 watts nominal (not peak) and a top speed of 20mph.
really... to be smart... factor the rolling resistance of tire you intend... factor the loss in watts and supplement the 750 (when neded) but that's for nominal rating, you can also count on a few volts more for more watts.
This should all run fine, no problems and no burnt gears but not with NYLON @ 600 - 750w nominal and with gearing. I could be mistaken (probably) but a well designed outrunner/inrunner with a kv of 95 or so under load, with a 7:1 reduction would give you 3420 RPM (more torque/power through higher RPM) / 7 (reduction) for a streetable RPM of 488.57 or 29mph no load.
Load would give about 22-25mph.
I just think it's a matter of vendors selling motors designed for use abroad where the laws are much tighter with lower limits.
-Mike
Russell
1 MW
mwkeefer said:
Except it is too much to ask from a motor designed for 15-18 mph and a power dissipation of 250W. There are a ton of Bafangs and other small geared motors running around out there doing what they were designed to do but for some reason some folks think it's quite alright to run 'em at several times their rated power, then complain when they fail. Yes there is a good deal of headroom when it comes to electric motors so they can cope with peak loads however that doesn't mean they should be run continuously at those peaks. I ran mine at 48V/15A which meant I saw peak power of around 750-760W from the battery however my average power use was normally around 200W on a long ride. When running the motor flat out for say the last 4-5 miles of a ride at speeds of 20-25 mph I could definitely heat it up so it would not be wise to run an over-volted small geared motor at full throttle all of the time or up long grades especially without pedaling. Anyway there are a broad range of motors available so it comes down to picking the right one for the job. If you want some assist a small geared motor is terrific but if you have mountains to climb or want to ride for prolonged periods at over 20 mph then a little motor should not even be considered.
-R
mwkeefer
1 MW
Rus,
I don't disagree with you except in terms of "small" motor. Have you seen what "smaller" than what's inside most hub motors RC motors can do? They are designed for it, yes but... Now with a 7:1 reduction we are limited in terms of top RPM which is needed to develop maximum power, well were limited at 20mph to around 3000 rpm as i said previously. But if the motor were designed for top speed of 40mph (as an absolute maximum) then we want to spin at 6000 rpm which would mean double the torque (or more, never been good at this)... but would require a motor designed for 700w - 750w nominal / rms (1000w peak).
I guess my point is/was - with a properly designed and wound motor the lower power (foreign to the US) levels would be "under powered" versions of the better motor (think 500w 9c) while allowing proper operation at US nominal power levels of 750w without too much heat. However - 750w nominal would destroy the nylon in quick fashion (I think you are agreeing with me).
The end point is people (me included) are trying to take a product intended for the lower powered, legal use in foreign countries and make it work to the legal limits within the USA.. just not feasible for reliable operation.
I don't disagree with you except in terms of "small" motor. Have you seen what "smaller" than what's inside most hub motors RC motors can do? They are designed for it, yes but... Now with a 7:1 reduction we are limited in terms of top RPM which is needed to develop maximum power, well were limited at 20mph to around 3000 rpm as i said previously. But if the motor were designed for top speed of 40mph (as an absolute maximum) then we want to spin at 6000 rpm which would mean double the torque (or more, never been good at this)... but would require a motor designed for 700w - 750w nominal / rms (1000w peak).
I guess my point is/was - with a properly designed and wound motor the lower power (foreign to the US) levels would be "under powered" versions of the better motor (think 500w 9c) while allowing proper operation at US nominal power levels of 750w without too much heat. However - 750w nominal would destroy the nylon in quick fashion (I think you are agreeing with me).
The end point is people (me included) are trying to take a product intended for the lower powered, legal use in foreign countries and make it work to the legal limits within the USA.. just not feasible for reliable operation.
voicecoils
1 MW
Russell said:
8)
I created quite a bit of fuss. It stems from Knuckles reporting running his Bafang's at 72v28A achieving 30mph without problems (and he was selling controllers/motors). I followed his lead and had terrible results (and I live in a hilly are): destroying gears, overheating motor and dislodging hall sensors etc. To my Bafang's credit the clutch never died and the windings have not shorted. I've kept the bike running at 72v and current limited to between 12-18A and it hasn't died.
I agree that there are limits for such a small motor. The small size and weight was quite appealing but perhaps for much of the NA market or E-S 'modders' having the restraint to stick with a low power setup won't suit.
docnjoj
1 GW
On a suspension bike let's not forget that old bugaboo "unsprung weight". you basically negate the rear suspension with a 25 lb motor as you have to tighten the coil spring so much that you loose any subtlety of using a softer suspension. Way too much inertia! The Bafang, for all its faults weighs about 7 lbs, not that different from a standard rear gearbox. It gives a much better ride with much better control of bumps on bad roads. That's what I like about them. So far (about 4 months) my newer Bafang has held up to 320 lbs of me, trike etc without a hitch.
otherDoc
otherDoc
