Any updates on the HPC revolution?

[Chalo]

Why is the crankset/BB so high on the Revolution?

I thought the same. With the correct distance between crank and seat, you would never get your foot to the ground.

You don't get your foot to the ground; you get it to the pedal. The ground will always have to be a few inches further away than that. You have to step off the seat, like someone who has legs. (In town, I often pull up to a curb and prop my foot there while I wait for the light to change.)

Electra Townie and other "feet forward" bikes were specifically designed to address people's anxieties about having to stand up when they stop.

High bottom brackets are good because they let you use long cranks if you want. If they are high enough, you can pedal through corners.

 

[friendly1uk]

I do have legs? and I did say there are proper mounting methods, you have just deleted it then said it back to me?

The point remains, Why is it so high. Nobody wants 450mm long crank arms. 180mm is big.

 

[es2150]

I like the bike. Reminds me of my racing days on my mountain cycle. Always thought that might be the competition for optibike and now here it is. Hope I get to ride one. And to all that ride ebikes and buy ebike parts enjoy. Isn't that why we ride bikes with air cond?

 

[dogman dan]

Yes, you don't want pedal strike on every rock you come to, so you don't want a low bb for trail riding.

One of the reasons I do like FS bikes on the street, is the higher bb height does allow pedaling through a corner. On my front hub bike, it was great to get pulling traction through corners on both wheels.

But in that pic, which does not show the height with a rider on the bike, it does look a tad on the high side. If it comes down to level with the axles with a rider on it, then it's good though. You don't ride suspension bikes with the shocks topped out, so it's bound to come down some when a rider hops on.

 

[QuestionMan]

dogman, is a high bottom bracket height so important on an ebike assuming you pedal very little?

A lower bottom bracket gives a lower center of gravity, don't you think that would be more important on an ebike where pedal strike would be a non issue?

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

is a high bottom bracket height so important on an ebike assuming you pedal very little?

A lower bottom bracket gives a lower center of gravity, don't you think that would be more important on an ebike where pedal strike would be a non issue?

if it is for the road then yes lower could be better if you are not pedaling..
for offroad then no the bb should be somewhat high regardless..
dirtbikes have high pegs and you dont pedal them..
whereas supermoto and street bikes are generally lower..

 

[dogman dan]

For sure, you can't have low pedals off road. On my FS bikes, the bb is at least as high as the hubs, and I often wish they were higher when you ride a trail that winds between the big rocks. Pedal strike also happens a lot when riding singletrack that is cut into the side of a steep hill.

Like I said before, you really can't say shit till you see the crank height with the battery and rider on it. There is a huge variation in how differing suspensions settle when loaded. Oddly, I can't find a You Tube video of it with a rider on it yet.

At some point, you do have it just way too high. I remember Live for Physics bringing a modified bmx bike to a race, where the cranks ended up clown like high. It rode, but it wasn't ideal for sure. I rode it, nearly looking between my knees at the track.

 

[QuestionMan]

Does these bikes look similar to anyone?

 

[Jolly Jumper]

no, but i guess the price is :lol:

 

[Kepler]

I like a high bottom bracket both for off road and for pedaling through corners. However, that is getting a bit ridiculous. The seat would need to be another 10" higher for me to pedal that bike comfortably.

I think though the bottom bracket height has been a bit exaggerated by the shocker length or the rear mount position. The head angle looks too steep as it stands also. I think if the back was dropped down a bit, the bottom bracket height would look more reasonable and would slacken off the head angle more in line with downhill geometry.

And while we are at it, I think they have the seat tube angle wrong too. In my opinion, a bike looks better if the seat tube are close to parallel to steerer tube. Raptor have stuffed this up too (again IMO). One of the many reasons a Stealth looks so right.

 

[dogman dan]

I suppose looks gets important in that price range. Wouldn't want that thief to get less for it.

As for copying a design, well, you sure don't want something completely new, just for the sake of looking different. The bike market is plagued with that, and the ebike market even more so. Better if they stick to something more proven to be OK. Please, no PI.

Looking at it some more, that fork angle is pretty vertical. I'd have to go look it up which is more desirable for a fast bike, vertical or more angle.

 

[Kepler]

A tighter head angle gives you sharper handling at the expense of high speed stability. My commuter has 72 deg heat angle and changes direction really quickly. My Fighter is more like 67 deg and tracks like it is on rails to a point where 50kph feels slow. Most downhill bikes are around the 68 deg mark.

 

[full-throttle]

A tighter head angle gives you sharper handling at the expense of high speed stability.

True, but its the combination of HA, fork offset and wheel size that determines the handling.

My commuter has 72 deg heat angle and changes direction really quickly. My Fighter is more like 67 deg and tracks like it is on rails to a point where 50kph feels slow. Most downhill bikes are around the 68 deg mark.

Most DH bikes a DECADE ago had those angles. 68 deg is considered steep even on 26" trail bikes these days. 63 deg is more contemporary :wink: Once again: your commuter and Fighter have different wheel sizes and fork offsets, so shouldn't be compared by the HA alone.

 

[dogman dan]

Reading on the thread I moved to for sale new, it sounds like the frame design is still not set in stone. They talk about some tweaks that affect high speed handling. So the production model may have some changes from the pic we have been talking about.

I looked, but couldn't find yt video yet of the bike with a rider on it. I still think it settles quite a bit with a rider on it. Most long travel suspension bikes do.

I think HPC has evolved for the better.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

the bb only looks realllly tall (well above the axle line) in the one pic from interbike above..
in other subsequent pics it looks much more in line with the axle height..

as already mentioned until we see a completed, loaded and running bike its a bit soon to assume too much..

 

[migueralliart]

I like the design and I give them credit for at least being in the USA and trying to do this. Eveyone else is asking 5k+ or more for a full suspension ebike. THey mentioned interest in selling the frame to ES members. This is not easy as it involves a lot of changes and design considerations.

I'd like to see what their asking price will be for a barebone frame.

 

[sacko]

On those pictures the rear shock is a lot shorter, look at the angles of the swing arm.

Looks a lot better.

 

[hi-powercycles]

Hi Guys,
Don't get too caught up in the geometry. There were a lot of things that needed correcting in the original prototype. There were so many snags along the way that we got really close to missing the deadline for Interbike. The Revolution has been tweaked and redesigned a bit to offer better suspension performance and minimize chain stretch. Once the final prototype is completed, we will give an update with fresh photos and pricing to those who were waiting for a DIY frame. Also, we hope to eventually manufacture our own motors here in the USA. Since, although we put much time, effort and money into revising the laminations, magnets, windings, axles, bearings, wires, etc. many people who don't understand this will look at the outside shell and falsely assume it is an off the shelf motor. We have not sold an off the shelf motor in over 3 years now. And for those who think we load up a BMC geared motor to 4000W, think again! Only our gearless motors can handle this much power. We are quite proud to say we have never burnt one of our 4000W motors in two years now. A stock BMC V4 is good for maybe 1800W. With our minor changes (we save the expensive changes for our gearless C-lyte manufactured motors) we can safely do 2000W on the geared motor. However, with our geared mid-drive motor, spinning at XX,XXX rpm, we will have a 4000W version that will absolutely scream (figuratively at least, since it is actually pretty darn quiet!). This motor will proudly be assembled here in the USA and we have been working on it for over a year already. The hardest part was gearbox design and finding the right supplier that could manufacture the gears that could handle the loads while still being quiet.

For those who aren't a fan of our pricing, we can't help you much there! California is one of the worst states in the country for taxes and cost of doing business, and it seems like there is a hand down our pocket with everything we do. However we love it here, and will continue doing business here for the foreseeable future. A lot of you wouldn't believe me if I told you the cost to even put out one battery on the market (the right way) with full UN38.3 compliance. As a company, we hope to serve those who give us a chance for a long time. We have a solid business model, have never even borrowed even one cent from any lender, so we are in a good position financially. This allows for a solid R&D budget that we hope will allow us to provide innovative and unique products for years to come. We hope to excite and invigorate the e-bike market and give back to the true enthusiasts who made us who we are today. We hope to stay around for the long haul so we don't leave people hanging like so many companies that have come before us. The Revolution will be something really special. We can't wait until final production begins.

By the way, we are aiming for an adjustable 65-67 degree head tube angle (adjustable via the fully adjustable rear shock). This will serve more aggressive riders who wish for quick handling as well as those who wish to DH this rig. Thanks again to you guys for your support. We appreciate it.

 

[Kepler]

Thanks for chiming in there HPC. Those last two pictures do much greater justice to the bike with the line and geometry looking much more like it.

Good luck with your business. It looks like you will have a fine product to offer.

 

[dogman dan]

As I expected, that pic was not how the bike was intended to be in use. It did look funny. Maybe rode funny too till adjustments were made. There is so much that can be done with different shocks and shock tuning, various shock mount holes on some frames. I don't even pretend to understand it all. But I was pretty sure you wouldn't have the bb that high when you are on the bike.

I was on the scoff HPC bandwagon at one time, but never doubted the capabilities of their bike with two BMC gearmotors.

I did understand there is a big difference between a big wattage controller, and the motor actually drawing all of that potential maximum watts. Assuming a 26" wheel, depending on the winding and the volts you could come up with one combo unable to draw more than 2000w for more than a few seconds on a steep hill and climbing it very cool, or have one that stalls and draws 3000w till it melts if the hill is very steep. So just because they put a large controller on a bike does not mean the motor must melt right away. This is some of the stuff I learned, that made me a fan of the lower speed windings. One assumes that HPC also quickly learned that in a 26" rim, you don't choose the fastest winding available to climb steep hills.

Anyway, I keep coming away more and more impressed with what HPC is doing now. And more and more wishing I lived close enough to go test ride some of their stuff. I might be too old to hang on for long, but I'd hang on long as I can with a big ol grin.

 

[hi-powercycles]

Thought I'd chime in with an update! So we finished designing the final prototype of the Revolution. Stress testing is complete- we have definitely overbuilt this thing! We have changed the rear swingarm design and shock mounting locations. We have an adjustable rear shock mount and slightly adjustable head tube angles as well. The swing arm design offers progressive wheel travel much like a dirt bike that will allow some initial squat and get a bit stiffer throughout the travel range. The bike has been designed to be able to be pedaled with a high degree of performance and can be used as an ULTRA heavy duty downhill rig without electric power if the user wishes. We will offer an initial run of frames for those of you looking for the ultimate lightweight DIY platform. These frames are hand welded by a highly esteemed aerospace company here in Los Angeles, CA. Their work is outstanding. Here is a picture of what it will look like. Battery box dimensions as of right now are: 138mm x 428mm x 94mm. This could change slightly, but we will see how this final round of testing goes!

 

[sk8norcal]

cool frame,
HPC, do u know why these Chinese vendors have ur pics up in their ad?
can u comment on this?

http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-4000w-electric-bike.html
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54790

 

[hi-powercycles]

That's tough. I really don't know how to stop it. Every one of them is a scam. We have contacted alibaba and other sites that advertise bikes numerous times. We have contacted the individual stores as well. They keep popping up from every angle and it's hard to get a handle on it. I see they advertise Stealth Bomber as well for $900. I just hope no one loses money over this. If anyone has advice I would love to hear it!

 

[Spacey]

I saw those ads ages ago and reported them to Alibaba..... no reply lol.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

2015 HPC Revolution .. alloy frame made in USA

https://www.facebook.com/HPCBikes/posts/871390342879309