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Anyone tried EM3EV new bottle mount batteries?

kudos

10 kW
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Guernsey, Channel Islands, UK
In my on going quest to find a clean looking setup I noticed that the new bottle mount batteries from em3ev look the part.

http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=161

However, I haven't yet seen any builds on here using them.

Has anyone tried them and would like to report?

Kudos
 
We know the packs he builds are top quality. In the past, only sorted and tested cells were assembled into a pack. Paul was adding a second inspection of quality, post factory.

Now I'm told that the box mount battery is also assembled by EM3ev. That's good news. Previous comments just edited out, so some later posts referring to my comments may sound confusing now.

I wish Paul would send an entire kit to a reputable ES member, such as Y pedal or Amberwolf or Drunkskunk. I mean the new bb drive, combined with the bottle mount battery.
 
Saw these on ebay the other week. Just what I wanted last year. I'm not sure why bottle batteries exist, as nobody thinks your carrying that much coffee and a round container is unforgiving. A normal box shape attached at the bottle mounting points is a no brainer. Storage bins designed this way should of come about 50 years ago.

Then I lost the ebay link. Oops. Though they look just like these, which seem to not be the perfect box shape as yet.
 
Patiently waiting for tracking number, mine are in route. 36V 13.8Ah
 
I bought one and just received it last week. 48v 8.4Ah (13S4P using Samsung 22P cells) with the matching 2A charger.

Haven't had the chance to do anything with it yet besides a discharge test at 10A (just over 1C).
It performed exactly as advertised giving 8.7Ah and 396Wh

discharge-test.jpg

First impressions are:
  • Fits in quite small frame triangles & has flexible mounting positions on the frame's bidon cage mounts
  • It looks vastly better than any of the 'bottle batteries'. I'm not really into the silver dildo on the downtube look.
  • Not waterproof - cover it with a plastic bag for anything other than a short light drizzle
  • Matching charger is nosier than the common HiPower chargers which come with many turn-key ebikes.

I can post some photos and more thoughts later if anyone's interested.
 
It is all in quality of cells.
This pack uses very popular size of cells.
Why not Panasonic or Samsung cells used??
Why he is not saying what China brand he uses?
This pack is on cheapo side.
I know I know he runs all the tests on cells or,
not so thorough as Dogman says.
Personally I like the box but want quality brand name cells and I am willing to pay more if it comes from Paul .
For now he is maybe ok with current batch of cells, but as experience says with China brand will the next batch be as good?
 
Lol to the silver dildo comment voicecoils. +1.

I just ordered one of these from the nnebikes alibaba site along with a 750w mid drive. 48V 11ah claimed, will be interesting to see.
Shame about the point you raised on splashproofing, was hoping it'd be better than the old school silver ones.
 
miro13car said:
Why not Panasonic or Samsung cells used??
Why he is not saying what China brand he uses?
The heading reads "SAMSUNG". At least when I use the link and read the description? Not good?
 
miro13car said:
It is all in quality of cells.
This pack uses very popular size of cells.
Why not Panasonic or Samsung cells used??
Why he is not saying what China brand he uses?
This pack is on cheapo side.
I know I know he runs all the tests on cells or,
not so thorough as Dogman says.
Personally I like the box but want quality brand name cells and I am willing to pay more if it comes from Paul .
For now he is maybe ok with current batch of cells, but as experience says with China brand will the next batch be as good?

They're Samsung as I said in my first post. :roll: :roll: :roll:

I ran my own discharge test instead of relying on the vendor's word. I've had direct experience with Samsung, Panasonic and Sony 18650 cells...all 3 are good (and getting better). Provided the pack is spec'd with a cell variant which matches intended max & average discharge rates and the pack construction quality is good, you won't find many better cell choices for e bikes.

Paul @ EM3EV also does a great job of describing the different cell options the pack can have on his site & which you should select based on your discharge rate requirements.
 
hey guys, I also want to know too. Apparently, em3ev, lectric cycles (LeGrand), and Alibaba people are selling this pack with different cell configurations. But I discovered, that www.conhismotor.com (ebay) is also selling a HIGH powered one. Check it out, do you guys think I should buy it and it seems to be the best cell? It uses the Panasonic 18650 3.7V 2900maH NCR18650PF.

I know lectric cycles mentioned that the samsung 29E had poor discharge rate so wasn't recommended. But the 22P cells I think have too low of a capacity. I need a minimum of 10Ah but capable of holding the 750w bafang mid drive kit .

http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=441
 
Okay guys, maybe I've decided. I will buy that case and buy these batteries (Panasonic NCR18650PF 3.6V 2900mAh) and do a 13s4p. Maybe even a 14s4p to get slightly higher voltage. I'm thinking the Bafang mid-drive 48v can handle it.

Next question.... does anyone know where I can buy a BMS for this?
 
dogman said:
We know the packs he builds are top quality. In the past, only sorted and tested cells were assembled into a pack. Paul was adding a second inspection of quality, post factory.

But I just can't see the same QC going into the factory box pack. Nevertheless, if the cells are similar type, they will be a lot better than some of the offerings we have seen so far, like the old 10 ah lifepo4 packs common with ready to ride ebikes. Those long square ones you saw mounted behind the seatpost.

This is just a pack he makes with a shell around it. Not something someone else put together.
You will notice that the packs he puts together generally all have the same cells.

It's cheap-ish because the capacity is small on the default option.
 
nukezero said:
Okay guys, maybe I've decided. I will buy that case and buy these batteries (Panasonic NCR18650PF 3.6V 2900mAh) and do a 13s4p. Maybe even a 14s4p to get slightly higher voltage. I'm thinking the Bafang mid-drive 48v can handle it.

Next question.... does anyone know where I can buy a BMS for this?

With those cells, the battery pack will be on the saggy side, running them at 2C mostly constantly.
You need more amp hours to deliver full capacity with a ~25a load.

Consider 5p.. at the very least, with high capacity, low-ish power 18650 cells.
 
neptronix said:
nukezero said:
Okay guys, maybe I've decided. I will buy that case and buy these batteries (Panasonic NCR18650PF 3.6V 2900mAh) and do a 13s4p. Maybe even a 14s4p to get slightly higher voltage. I'm thinking the Bafang mid-drive 48v can handle it.

Next question.... does anyone know where I can buy a BMS for this?

With those cells, the battery pack will be on the saggy side, running them at 2C mostly constantly.
You need more amp hours to deliver full capacity with a ~25a load.

Consider 5p.. at the very least, with high capacity, low-ish power 18650 cells.

wait what? this panasonic cell is supposed to be capable of 5C, 10A!

also, is this a good BMS, and does it make sense to buy a BMS that supports very high amps (say up to 60A) or is it a waste of money:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-54-6V-13S-30A-Lithium-ion-Li-ion-Li-Po-LiPo-Polymer-Battery-BMS-PCB-System-/321108395524?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac38d4604
 
Smack whoever is marketing it as a 5C cell in the balls. It will perform like absolute crap, waste tons of energy, and generate loads of heat even below that rating. Other resellers call it a 3C battery, but it isn't even that; that's more like a burst rating for a short period of time.

On a 2C constant load, it looks like she's a ~3.4v nominal cell instead of the best case scenario: about 3.7v nominal. It will blow ~10% of it's energy as heat. That's far from optimal.

NCR18650PF.png


You'll notice that the only way to get full capacity here is to run it at 0.1C. But that's not the kicker... the voltage you lose is what hurts.

This is the ugly truth about high capacity 18650's over say, 2500AH or so.. they have great energy capacity, but awful power. You either have to oversize your pack significantly or run low power.

You will notice with cell_man's batteries, that the mentions a more realistic power level of the his cells instead of parroting whatever the manufacturer's 'burst'/max C rating is, as if it was some kind of constant rating! A lot of resellers do that - and that's either dishonesty or just plain not testing their product and selling it correctly.
 
neptronix said:
Smack whoever is marketing it as a 5C cell in the balls. It will perform like absolute crap, waste tons of energy, and generate loads of heat even below that rating. Other resellers call it a 3C battery, but it isn't even that; that's more like a burst rating for a short period of time.

On a 2C constant load, it looks like she's a ~3.4v nominal cell instead of the best case scenario: about 3.7v nominal. It will blow ~10% of it's energy as heat. That's far from optimal.

NCR18650PF.png


You'll notice that the only way to get full capacity here is to run it at 0.1C. But that's not the kicker... the voltage you lose is what hurts.

This is the ugly truth about high capacity 18650's over say, 2500AH or so.. they have great energy capacity, but awful power. You either have to oversize your pack significantly or run low power.

You will notice with cell_man's batteries, that the mentions a more realistic power level of the his cells instead of parroting whatever the manufacturer's 'burst'/max C rating is, as if it was some kind of constant rating! A lot of resellers do that - and that's either dishonesty or just plain not testing their product and selling it correctly.

yeah I do see that curve is quite steep. okay, then what is the best 18650 cell out there for the money assuming a 13s4p setup? I guess polymer is the only option? The case that I'm goinng to put it into can only hold 52 cylindricals...
 
tomjasz said:
Patiently waiting for tracking number, mine are in route. 36V 13.8Ah

I am getting a 36V 16 Ah. Shipping expected this week. Hoping to mount it on a rack.

Andrew
 
Test mounted the new pack today. I've definitely put it in the smallest triangle it can fit it. I can just slide it in and out (has to move toward the front of the bike to slide up and out). The mount is as far back as possible with the battery just touching the seat-tube when it slides and lock in fully.

View attachment 5photo 3_thumb.jpgphoto 4_thumb.jpgphoto 5_thumb.jpgphoto 6_thumb.jpgphoto 7_thumb.jpg

You can also see the bag behind my seat where the old pack lived. It held a 37v14Ah pack. The in-frame battery looks a bit slicker I think :)
 
I did not know that was an EM3ev assembled pack in the box. Somehow that bit did not get into my brain, and I thought it was possible those were sourced from a factory.

That's great news. If Pauls crew assembled it, you know he did some additional QC, as he has always done.

That makes it a no brainer to just buy the EM3ev pack, rather than trust some of the other vendors. It is small, but should be ideal to match with the 350w bb kit.

I don't mean to say the other vendors are bad at all. I just mean that depending on who you buy from, the quality of the pack inside could vary. You know the assembly and testing of an EM3ev pack is good.

I'm not a bit surprised to see the capacity is as promised at 1c. ( voicecoils) I'd like to see what you think of the sag at 2c. If it has little voltage sag under load at 2c, that would mean it should be able to run a 20 amps controller ok. Anything under 2v of sag would be pretty good I think. But 5v of sag would mean a larger capacity pack might be a good idea for the 750w kit.

Since you have the smaller capacity pack, it will be very interesting to see how it performs under a 2c load.
 
If anyone else is interested in the shell only, a seller on aliexpress is selling them ;

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/white-color-packing-18650-cells-new-bottle-battery-case-electric-bike-battery-case-ebike-battery-case/1682864183.html

THey might start surfacing here and there. I wouldn't buy them with the packs in it from aliexpress as I don't trust battery packs from there.

Now one of those filled with 25R cells ... :D killer commuter pack.
 
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