Anyone use an unusual motor?

[iangreenhalgh]

I see lots of builds using the 'usual suspects' - Astroflights, orange can Turnigy RC motors, hub motors of MXUS, Crystalyte etc.

But I'm wondering, what have people built using a motor other than the common ones seen in ebike builds, esp[ecially anything unusual.

 

[amberwolf]

You might want to look around the forum more; there are a number of threads about nonstandard motors/uses, including my own early bikes, like DayGlo Avenger, and CrazyBike2's original drivetrain.

If you have the time for it, reading up on all the stuff in the technical forums (as opposed to the general ones) or even just reading around random old threads may open your eyes and mind to things you haven't thought to even ask yet.

I've been here for years and still run across stuff I didn't know about.

 

[iangreenhalgh]

Thanks for the tips. I have been doing a lot of looking and keep seeing the same motors, hence my question. I guess I need to dig deeper!

 

[DanGT86]

All of the common motors were unusual the first time we saw them. People tend to gravitate towards certain motors as they are proven to work for their goals and budget. There is a wide range of skills and knowledge shared on here so when someone figures out a good combo people copy it. There are also instances of large group buys when a manufacturer makes a specific motor available to the ES community thus making an unusual motor very common once someone figures it out.

What would you consider unusual? Are you looking for uncommon external shapes or internal characteristics? Exotic materials maybe?

Its just a broad question. Maybe we could point you in a direction if we knew what you were looking to see.

 

[Lebowski]

my motors (1 and 3 kW):

 

[iangreenhalgh]

Hi Dan. Good question, I suppose I was referring to motors intended for other applications - starter motors, alternators, washing machine motors etc. Not that any of those are very suitable, but I'm sure there are motors for other uses that are suitable and have been used, it's those I' like to see the implementation of.

Hi Lebowski. Those motors are fascinating, remind me of the axial flux generator I'm working on for a wind turbine. I'd love to see some more details of your work to steal ideas from!

 

[DanGT86]

I see. I think most of the motors from other applications suffer from shortcomings like inefficiencies or are difficult to adapt due to proprietary output shafts. I have heard of people doing cheap car starter powered bikes by bolting the flexplate to the rim of a bike. But starters are primarily made for momentary use and will overheat if run continuously. Alternators can be converted into motors but are terribly inefficient compared to purpose built traction motors. appliances like washing machine motors are not really designed to rev up and down so I would imagine they are not awesome on a bike. Appliance motors commonly use unsealed bearings and are not really appropriate for outside conditions of dirt and rain.

The RC motors are a good example of crossover technology into the ev world. The first people to put them on bikes probably got some strange looks from the RC hobby community when riding by on one. But why not? Power is power right? Again you see people gravitate towards the few motors that have appropriate kv and thermal mass for transportation use. Hence the 80100 orange turnigy and the Astros. There are also situations like Matt's Davinci drives or the tangent drives where a vendor develops a platform based on a certain brand of motor and they end up all over the forum.

One area I expect to see as a source of unique motors is in the OEM electric car market. There are tons of electric motors on electric cars and hybrids that are now powering braking and climate control systems as well as power steering and so on. I think these motors designed for efficient and long service will start popping up on bikes as more electric cars enter the salvage market. Question is will they rival the relatively inexpensive motors that are now built specifically for the Ebike market.

I have only been around here for maybe 3years but in that time I have seen huge changes in the market with vendors catering to our relatively niche market. The fact that people can get a factory on the other side of the world to custom wind a batch of motors and add things like temp sensors and extra halls for a minimum order of only 20 or 50 motors is amazing. So its not as exciting as someone doing wheelies on a washing machine motor but at the same time its kinda more exciting.

Good luck with your quest for unique motors. Maybe this post could be a good collection of other threads that you find.

Also, if you want unique, Lebowski's threads are a great place to start.

 

[iangreenhalgh]

Thankyou Dan, that's a very good, considered reply.

Myself, I am using this motor for my bike, coupled to a Makita angle grinder gearbox:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=75953

Here is another motor I nearly bought, but I couldn't find any data on it and the output shaft looks like it would be tricky to couple:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222012042953?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[iangreenhalgh]

On the subject of motors from electric cars, some of those are already trickling down into the surplus market, such as these very nice Remy units from a BMW X6:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Remy-HVH250-electric-brushless-motor-EV-AC-car-vehicle-bike-truck-63-kW-more/272129349249?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140107092241%26meid%3De99e4ccba2bd4298aa1ac7bdf2f002e8%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D190427650961

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Remy-HVH250-electric-brushless-motor-A-EV-AC-car-vehicle-motorcycle-67kW-more/272129349648?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140107092241%26meid%3De99e4ccba2bd4298aa1ac7bdf2f002e8%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D190427650961

If I had the budget to convert a car to electric, I think I'd chose something like those rather than a repurposed motor from a forklift or similar.

 

[Punx0r]

Those Remy motors look interesting. It'd be nice to know what exactly is required to run one standalone.

 

[iangreenhalgh]

I believe they are oil cooled so you would need to run a cooling system. The electronics should be simple enough in that you should be able to find a suitable controller.

 

[SlowCo]

The electronics should be simple enough in that you should be able to find a suitable controller.

That might turn out very expensive or very DIY if you want to run those motors at 67kW and higher...

 

[iangreenhalgh]

Yes, the controllers I have seen that are beefy enough for those motors would be a four figure purchase.

I would love to see some nutter buy a pair of those motors and build a bike around them - 130KW on a bike would be something to behold.

 

[DanGT86]

You mean like this? I refer to building 100+kw bicycles as "pulling a Luke"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnGvSEcldzQ

 

[iangreenhalgh]

Funnily enough I saw that video yesterday. A bike that will do 0-60 in 2 something is no joke. How many kW is that 'Death Bike' BTW?

 

[macribs]

There is a e-bike running 20+ kw joby motor, taking on 450 cc on a dirt track.

[youtube]cxBbNV6jK8E[/youtube]

 

[liveforphysics]

There is a e-bike running 20+ kw joby motor, taking on 450 cc on a dirt track.

[youtube]cxBbNV6jK8E[/youtube]

Whoa! Awesome bike!

 

[iangreenhalgh]

Awesome indeed. Looks to me like the ebike has a ton more torque than the gassers.

 

[macribs]

I do think this Joby bike is made by an ES member, but can't remember who was the original poster of the video.
I would sure love to know more about the specs. Those Joby motors are for sure lightweight and would make for a nimble mid drive.

Here is another one of the same e-bike;

[youtube]lGpx8-7-IXg[/youtube]

 

[spinningmagnets]

The Joby is not in production, and when it was...it was VERY expensive. I believe it had 0.20mm thick laminations (as opposed to the more common 0.50mm and 0.35mm). However, it is certainly a useful exercise to ponder what improvements provide which results. Every improvement choice in motor design appears to have unintended consequences...

 

[macribs]

I believe it had 0.20mm thick laminations (as opposed to the more common 0.50mm and 0.35mm).

Seems Joby dropped laminations even further.

Yes, the joby is awesome, they dropped lamination size to .12mm

However, it is certainly a useful exercise to ponder what improvements provide which results. Every improvement choice in motor design appears to have unintended consequences...

You say that like those Joby motors has/had some major flaws? Could you pls elaborate as I don't know these motors.

The Joby is not in production, and when it was...it was VERY expensive.

Are you sure about Joby not being in production? Joby webiste seems to be up, there is no mention of the motors not in production still. And it is not that long ago I saw someone mention here on ES that Joby would do custom winding of their motors, even 6 phase.

Well if that is the case, what motors would be on par with the Joby's? I am thinking both in terms of power and weight. As I watched those videos of the joby powered e-bike I was stunned. Never expected to see such a light and powerful e-bike. And the bad thing is I still don't know jack about the specs of that bike other that it uses a Joby motor.

So is there even other motors in same league? I mean the specsheets are kind of incredible for the Joby's. So kind of hard to take all that in. But when those videos are watched, one can see that is some powerful motor whoever the builder and rider is he is kicking 450 cc gassers ass. So the Joby specs seems plausible.
Click to see the specs. Incredible.

Spoiler: Joby Specs

Edited:
Could it be that the joby e-bike is build by toolman2?

Below is a quote from forum member Thud, late april last year:

With a quick evaluation of your idea & goal package....I can only see the Joby JS1 fitting the parameters.
& you can get it wound any way you want it...including split into a 6 phase/2 controller scenario.

IIRC, toolman2 had one....but I don't think he's shown us a build with it yet.
I will be watching.....& curious to see the results.

 

[wye]

Saw this on YouTube
http://youtu.be/qLeOqoS0gHc

 

[macribs]

The Joby is not in production, and when it was...it was VERY expensive. I believe it had 0.20mm thick laminations (as opposed to the more common 0.50mm and 0.35mm).

That is wrong spinningmagnets. Those Joby's might not be in stock, but show em your money and they will build you one. I got it from another ES member that just a few days ago was in contact with Joby about their motors.

Expensive you say? Well if compared to 1500 watt hubmotor sure. But compare Joby to other 20 kw peak motors and you will see the Joby is actually a fair price. And also you got to put that price in context - look at toolman2's Joby powered bike. He beats 250 and 450 cc gas bikes on the tracks. For that kind of power I would say the price is right.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I suppose I was referring to motors intended for other applications - starter motors, alternators, washing machine motors etc

I seem to remember the Joby was over $10,000?

 

[macribs]

I seem to remember the Joby was over $10,000?

Nope. As you can see below prices are moderate. Moderate when you factor in the power. 1.800 $ for 20+ kw peak.
Look at other options in the same power range and you will find prices are fair. And if you can spend a little more you can have twice or three time the torque as the 1.800 $ Joby. Also remember ES member toolman2 are beating 250cc and 450cc gas gulpers using Joby motor. Performance like that can not be expected to come for free. Spinningmagnets you should really do a story on toolman2 and his crazy powered e-bike for your magazine, as he has not yet shared much about his bike and specs, but he has only posted some video's of him winning over gas gulpers. Tons of clicks as this would be hot hot news and you would be first publishing........