Ken Taylor
100 W
Always interesting to see something different tried. Hopefully you will publish your build as it progresses.Deeze said:
Aprilia Enjoy
- Thread starter jateureka
- Start date
tonyontopofabighill
1 kW
Another racing version on Sydney northern beaches. Looks to be in very good condition and working. $500
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-Racing-electric-Bicycle-/321351388644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ad2090de4&_uhb=1
No bids,so seller has re listed it.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-Racing-electric-Bicycle-/321358194425?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ad270e6f9
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-Racing-electric-Bicycle-/321351388644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ad2090de4&_uhb=1
No bids,so seller has re listed it.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-Racing-electric-Bicycle-/321358194425?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ad270e6f9
tonyontopofabighill
1 kW
This bike has now been reduced to $400
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-Racing-electric-Bicycle-/321358194425?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ad270e6f9&_uhb=1
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-Racing-electric-Bicycle-/321358194425?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ad270e6f9&_uhb=1
drekkus
1 W
tonyontopofabighill said:
Looks like it still didn't sell and has been relisted again for the same price.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-Racing-electric-Bicycle/321364632202?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC.FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107090050%26meid%3D5871363625925391713%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D20140107090050%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D321358194425
Seems I might be in need of a new charger as mine seems to be screwing around with the balance. One cell keeps fluctuating on the charger on both battery packs but testing shows the cell as a lot higher ie charger shows as low as 2.8v but two other testers shows 4.29v.
tonyontopofabighill
1 kW
drekkus said:
I have got the same problem. Have you got an Accucel 8 ?
drekkus
1 W
tonyontopofabighill said:
I was using one of those HobbyKing Eco 6. Cheap I guess but I would have preferred if it had stopped working. I thought my batteries were stuffed but when it did it on both batty packs on the same cell I got suspicious. Hopefully it hasn't damaged the batteries. I did previous have an Eco 8 and it worked fine until I accidently shorted it. It still starts up but refuses to charge but it did come in handy as a cell checker in this case. Now I have to get another charger . Just as I had started to get some useful distances riding.
tonyontopofabighill
1 kW
I ended up buying the latest Aprilia racing model on ebay as well as a City version . The seller had 4 Aprilias all up but only put one of them on ebay.
Did anyone here end up buying the other 2 bikes?
Did anyone here end up buying the other 2 bikes?
jateureka
10 kW
There's another City version on eBay, Balmain NSW, re-sprayed dark blue & needs a new battery.... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301174749950?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
tonyontopofabighill
1 kW
Just out of curiosity did you get it from Collaroy in Sydney?
tonyontopofabighill
1 kW
I bought 2 silver bikes off him.
What are you using for a bottom bracket?
Are you using torque arms?
What are you using for a bottom bracket?
Are you using torque arms?
Ken Taylor
100 W
I caved and got the City that has been for sale on Gumtree in Canberra for a while. It's in nice condition except for the battery. I haven't ridden one with a working original controller before. When checking it out I thought it must be faulty as it powers fine when you pedal lightly but cuts out when you pedal hard. I was flabbergasted when I read in the manual:-
"The bike is provided with an electric safety system that stops the electric assistance to prevent improper use. (For example uphill riding using the highest gear and increasing too much the human pressure on pedal)."
Wow! It doesn't know what gear you're in so that equates to assist when you are not trying but not if you are and no help on steep hills. This is enforced laziness mostly, except for steep hills where you have to haul 28KG up on your own and the opposite of the algorithm I think you need, see http://blog.urremote.com/2012/12/what-would-it-take-to-cycle-fast-when.html and http://blog.urremote.com/2014/02/making-it-easier-for-heavy-people-to.html . Oddly I've never read about this in Aprilia reviews from when they were new or here. Am I the only one who thinks this control algorithm is weird?
"The bike is provided with an electric safety system that stops the electric assistance to prevent improper use. (For example uphill riding using the highest gear and increasing too much the human pressure on pedal)."
Wow! It doesn't know what gear you're in so that equates to assist when you are not trying but not if you are and no help on steep hills. This is enforced laziness mostly, except for steep hills where you have to haul 28KG up on your own and the opposite of the algorithm I think you need, see http://blog.urremote.com/2012/12/what-would-it-take-to-cycle-fast-when.html and http://blog.urremote.com/2014/02/making-it-easier-for-heavy-people-to.html . Oddly I've never read about this in Aprilia reviews from when they were new or here. Am I the only one who thinks this control algorithm is weird?
Hillhater
100 TW
I only rode the std controller for a day or so and just could not figure what was going on.
It would help a little but if you pedalled hard it would quit !
I assumed there was a fault with the controller or torque sensor and tried to bypass the sensors.
It didn't work , so I just dumped the whole deal and installed a different controller.
The original system was quite sophisticated, but probably not what is really needed by most riders.
It would help a little but if you pedalled hard it would quit !
I assumed there was a fault with the controller or torque sensor and tried to bypass the sensors.
It didn't work , so I just dumped the whole deal and installed a different controller.
The original system was quite sophisticated, but probably not what is really needed by most riders.
tonyontopofabighill
1 kW
I started off with 2 Aprilias with the standard setup and rode them both for about 2/3 years.I remember the motor would cut out when I got to 25klms per hour (I think) and if was going up a really steep hill the buzzer would beep and the power would cut out. All I had to do in this situation was turn the ignition off and then immeediately back on and I would be able to keep going.
I found it annoying but got used to it.
I was very happy when eventually the controllers on these bike failed and I was able to change over to the chinese controller/twist throttle.
Eventually when the batteries failed I was very happy to change to the lipo battery.
I found it annoying but got used to it.
I was very happy when eventually the controllers on these bike failed and I was able to change over to the chinese controller/twist throttle.
Eventually when the batteries failed I was very happy to change to the lipo battery.
Ken Taylor
100 W
I haven't ridden it fast enough to test high speed cut out but it must be cadence rather than speed dependant as there is no speed sensor.tonyontopofabighill said:
That is different to Hillhater's description and this bike so far. It is making me wonder again if the controller is faulty. The guy selling it understood the behaviour and said it was fine. For this bike, if the power cut out when pedalling hard it came back on for a second if I stopped pedalling. If power went off and I kept pedalling, but eased up, it came back on and remained on until I pedalled too hard again. I was sure it was a fault until I read the manual. I couldn't perceive that assist was varying with pedal effort but the torque sensor was definitely working because it could sense when I was pushing hard. I've only tried it for 10 mins so far so I need to test it more.tonyontopofabighill said:
Thanks for the feedback, Tony and Hillhater.
Hillhater
100 TW
Ken, as im sure you will realise, the assist function vary's depending on the selection of the 3 position switch (LH side)
My understanding was (fading fast !) that position 3 gave the most assist for hill climbing.
But , as i said, mine never seemed to work as described.
I also recall you could disable the speed (cadence) limit by cutting the white wire loop at the top of the controller ?
If you have the chance /tools,...it would be nice to know what the max amperage the standard controller limited at. ( 10 A ?)
My understanding was (fading fast !) that position 3 gave the most assist for hill climbing.
But , as i said, mine never seemed to work as described.
I also recall you could disable the speed (cadence) limit by cutting the white wire loop at the top of the controller ?
If you have the chance /tools,...it would be nice to know what the max amperage the standard controller limited at. ( 10 A ?)
Ken Taylor
100 W
I still don't understand this bike's control algorithm but as far as I can tell so far, it's not faulty, just horrible. Opening the bike up, it seemed like it was the first time with the side covers off, as I broke the loctite on the bolts. It is unscratched on the outside and it was also clean inside, just a little dust, which contrasts with my other one which gets battered and grimy. Surprising for a ten year old machine.
The cadence sensor tested OK, the brake switches function OK. The torque sensor should output 4 +/-0.5 volts with a 50kg load on the pedal. I measured 0.8 V unloaded and 2.7 V loaded which would be out of spec but I loaded it with a 53 kg person and you can't get all the load on the pedal or the person and bike falls over, so I think the torque sensor's OK too.
I tried a 40 km ride, mostly on assist level 3 and got home without a flat battery, though it was fading. I don't interpret the distance as good battery performance though, more down to bugger all assist. It was hard work and slow, I'm faster on an unassisted bike. There is no help a lot of the time and I don't understand the assist algorithm. There are some patterns I've noticed though, like if you stop pedalling and restart, it always gives assist for a while.
The cadence sensor tested OK, the brake switches function OK. The torque sensor should output 4 +/-0.5 volts with a 50kg load on the pedal. I measured 0.8 V unloaded and 2.7 V loaded which would be out of spec but I loaded it with a 53 kg person and you can't get all the load on the pedal or the person and bike falls over, so I think the torque sensor's OK too.
This I tested by locking the rear wheel and using a 20 amp/75 mv shunt and standing on the pedal. I measured a huge 71.6 amps which dropped the battery voltage to 18 V so that is a frightening 1.3KW. Frightening because that heat was being absorbed by one motor winding and the controller. Even the shunt warmed up which might have affected it's accuracy. After a while I felt regular pulses through the pedal as the torque changed, presumably as an over current sensor, temperature sensor or timer kicks in and out. I only tried it for a few seconds. This probably wouldn't happen in use as the bike would move with the rider standing on the pedal unless the brake is applied and this disables the motor. I wasn't game to keep investigating, to measure the change in current with change in torque, as it seemed likely I would cook the motor.Hillhater said:
I tried a 40 km ride, mostly on assist level 3 and got home without a flat battery, though it was fading. I don't interpret the distance as good battery performance though, more down to bugger all assist. It was hard work and slow, I'm faster on an unassisted bike. There is no help a lot of the time and I don't understand the assist algorithm. There are some patterns I've noticed though, like if you stop pedalling and restart, it always gives assist for a while.
DCMotorworks
10 W
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2010
- Messages
- 73
I recently picked up an Enjoy for a reasonable price with the intent to modify it to a 36v system with a throttle. It looks to be very lightly used. to my surprise the original battery pack took a charge and seems to be fairly strong.
it was kind of an underwhelming ride until I clipped the speed limiter wire. It's still a low power ride obviously but feeling the motor assist while pedaling down a slight incline at 27mph is a lot nicer than it was before. Disabling the speed limiter drains the battery a lot faster but last night I was still able to cover a little over 11 miles while averaging around 20mph. the controllers algorithms only ever seems a bit weird when I am running the bike hot off the charger. like there might be a temperature sensor in the battery case that is reading over heat? it always settles down after a few blocks and the pedal assist power becomes predictable and useful. it always powers up from a dead stop, and up-shifting, hill climbing or just pedaling hard always produces a burst of power. the power assist seems considerably more sophisticated than all the other brushed factory-built pedal assist bikes I have ridden which were produced in the same era (Merida, Giant LaFree, that Ford bike that was just the giant with the word "Ford" on it, etc.). I honestly quite like this bike. In fact it has become my preferred ride when taking short trips to the market or the local pub or whatever.
I think the only thing I am going to modify at this point is the battery. the pack is working fine but after a long ride the charger won't charge until the NiMH cells have cooled down a bit and even then sometimes the charger will shut off before fully charging the pack.
Anyways, I am planning on trying out a 24v 12ah Lifepo4 bottle type pack I've had sitting around in the shop for a while. the innards will fit in the battery compartment with plenty of room to spare, and I'll install a 24v to 12v / dc to dc converter to supply the 12v to the controller or sensors or what ever is going on with that. the lifepo4 bms is limited to 20 amps so if the Aprilia pulls more than that on steep hills or at start up acceleration in the highest power mode I will have to come up with a new plan.
TLDR: Clip the white wire.
DC
it was kind of an underwhelming ride until I clipped the speed limiter wire. It's still a low power ride obviously but feeling the motor assist while pedaling down a slight incline at 27mph is a lot nicer than it was before. Disabling the speed limiter drains the battery a lot faster but last night I was still able to cover a little over 11 miles while averaging around 20mph. the controllers algorithms only ever seems a bit weird when I am running the bike hot off the charger. like there might be a temperature sensor in the battery case that is reading over heat? it always settles down after a few blocks and the pedal assist power becomes predictable and useful. it always powers up from a dead stop, and up-shifting, hill climbing or just pedaling hard always produces a burst of power. the power assist seems considerably more sophisticated than all the other brushed factory-built pedal assist bikes I have ridden which were produced in the same era (Merida, Giant LaFree, that Ford bike that was just the giant with the word "Ford" on it, etc.). I honestly quite like this bike. In fact it has become my preferred ride when taking short trips to the market or the local pub or whatever.
I think the only thing I am going to modify at this point is the battery. the pack is working fine but after a long ride the charger won't charge until the NiMH cells have cooled down a bit and even then sometimes the charger will shut off before fully charging the pack.
Anyways, I am planning on trying out a 24v 12ah Lifepo4 bottle type pack I've had sitting around in the shop for a while. the innards will fit in the battery compartment with plenty of room to spare, and I'll install a 24v to 12v / dc to dc converter to supply the 12v to the controller or sensors or what ever is going on with that. the lifepo4 bms is limited to 20 amps so if the Aprilia pulls more than that on steep hills or at start up acceleration in the highest power mode I will have to come up with a new plan.
TLDR: Clip the white wire.
DC
tonyontopofabighill
1 kW
G'day DCMotorworks,
Was that the bike from Balmain that had been sprayed blue? I saw it went for a really good price?
Was that the bike from Balmain that had been sprayed blue? I saw it went for a really good price?
Ken Taylor
100 W
I've measured mine now and it managed 8.4AH. It is a nominal 13AH new so that isn't too bad either.DCMotorworks said:
I'll try that. Perhaps I should do some before and after power measurements.DCMotorworks said:
I wouldn't be wanting assist if I was going that fast.DCMotorworks said:
That is fast. I couldn't do that. I managed 19.1 km/h (11.9 mph) over a 28 km section while contributing an average 184 watts of human power. I'm faster on an unpowered bike.DCMotorworks said:
Not for me. Interesting that you are having a different experience. It makes me suspect again that mine is somehow faulty, despite the sensors testing OK, or maybe it is the effect of the non clipped wire.DCMotorworks said:
Same, if I pause pedalling while shifting.DCMotorworks said:
No and no for me.DCMotorworks said:
It powers the torque and cadence sensors. I think that's all.DCMotorworks said:
During the stall test, I conducted it pulled more than that. The BMS I use doesn't cut out but limits the maximum current draw. If yours is the same, I'd expect 20 amps is plenty.DCMotorworks said:
Thanks for the additional data point. It inspires me to look a bit more closely at the performance of the one I've been testing.
jateureka
10 kW
The stock battery is fitted with two 30A ATO fuses mounted in parallel and the controller is fitted with a 70A relay, so it can handle quite a bit more than 20A.
Nice that your stock battery is still working. My Aprillia came with two batteries, one fairly new. Unfortunately when you swap over to a generic controller and throttle you will find the batteries don't give very good range.
Nice that your stock battery is still working. My Aprillia came with two batteries, one fairly new. Unfortunately when you swap over to a generic controller and throttle you will find the batteries don't give very good range.
Ken Taylor
100 W
Interesting to follow your build. That battery box is huge, what are you putting in there? It looks to be welded all the way along so should stiffen the frame.Deeze said:Mine is having a makeover.
Yes it was. $400 was the best I could manage but I was keen as I suspect my original is approaching end of life. The gearbox sometimes clicks when I first add power and it's gradually happening more.Deeze said:
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